Walkthroughs of standard maps, focusing on SPEED. — General

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Plotnick

It's much more fun to "know how to use" the Sword of Justice than to "know how to use" a centaur's axe, for example.

I like the way you think!!!! :smile19:

Actually, the number that the pseudo-random number generator (PRNG) in Heroes uses comes from somewhere in the RAM. AlexSPL calls it the number R. I'm a complete novice in this area, but all pseudo-random events, such as morale or luck, are tied to it. But this number is not random either. Anyway, I'm confused :D

Plotnick

13 years ago

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Chingis

Only 1 artifact can be restart-farmed in a single warrior's grave
That is clear. I was wondering if these artifacts drop at all. Because looking at the statistics I'm getting, some artifacts haven't dropped even once. But if an artifact has dropped at least once, it drops regularly.

Chingis

Nothing there repeats in strict proportions
I don't know the conditions under which you are doing restarts. Whether you simply call restart scenario or completely reload the game, results may differ. I provided a log of artifact drops in one of the warrior's graves on a specific map. This statistics may vary depending on the map or something else. I do not know what it depends on. Dirty_Player confirmed that this looping does take place and that it has been known for a long time. So it is not just me experiencing this.

Chingis

Name the MAP, and say which ARTIFACT you need to restart-farm and where
Let's try. Map Podarok_2001, there is a warrior's grave next to the starting Castle. Due to an oversight (or perhaps it was intended), the map author did not forbid the Speaker's Hat from dropping. I want to try and find out if this map can be completed in a couple of weeks.

Below I provide data on the relics that dropped for me on this map in all graves, victims, as well as Dragon Utopia.

+Titan's Gladius
+Sentry's Shield
+Thunder Helm
+Titan's Cuirass
+Saint's Sandals
+Necklace of Bliss
+Lion Shield of Fearlessness
+Helm of Celestial Enlightenment
+Boots of Opposition
+Sea Captain's Helmet
+Sphere of Vulnerability
-Dragon Scale Armor
-Dragon Tooth Crown
-Enchanted Hat
+Sphere of Suppression
+Bottomless Bag of Gold
*Sword of Justice
*Angel Wings
*Boots of Levitation
*Tome of Fire Magic
*Tome of Air Magic
*Tome of Water Magic
*Tome of Earth Magic
*Vial of Dragon Blood
*Armageddon's Blade

All combined artifacts on the map are forbidden. Forbidden relics are marked with asterisks. Plus signs indicate those that dropped, and more than once. Minus signs indicate those that never dropped.

Plotnick

13 years ago

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1. Dimension Door, GP, Fly, and Water Walking spells are forbidden on the map.
2. Any combined artifacts, as well as Angel Wings, Boots of Levitation, and any magic books, are forbidden on the map. This means that if there is a border guard, he can only be bypassed by visiting the tent.
3. For some reason, the map author did not forbid the Speaker's Hat (forgot, didn't notice, etc.). It adds all 5th-level magic to the spellbook. That is, those very Dimension Door and Fly spells that can reduce the Walkthrough time.
4. Yes, of course I could just place an artifact next to the Castle, and that would be it. But I want to use a legal method. That is, to restart the Speaker's Hat into a grave, or at least into the Dragon Utopia. Since I am not yet sure if this is even possible. And I'm not sure because it hasn't happened yet.
5. I don't need the Dragon Tooth Crown or the Dragon Scale Armor. This is just info that these artifacts haven't dropped for me either.
6. I already mentioned the bot I wrote. It handles restarts and performs one restart every 10 seconds. I left it running overnight, which is approximately 4000-5000 restarts. But the specified three artifacts have not dropped once.

The map can be downloaded here:
http://www.heroesportal.net/maps.php?search=Podarok_2001

There are only 25 relics in the game, not counting combined artifacts. 9 of them are forbidden on this map. 13 drop regularly, 3 never drop.

In reply to Plotnick

Ник 1

13 years ago

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Plotnick

4. But I want to use a legal method. That is, to restart the Speaker's Hat into a grave, or at least into the Dragon Utopia. Since I am not yet certain that this is even possible. And I am not certain because it hasn't happened yet.
.

Your wish is not achievable on this map (at least in the version specified by your link). Here is why:

1) The spells Fly, Dimension Door, and Choke are disabled on the map — and consequently, all generators that provide them, including artifacts, such as the Speaker's Hat, Book of Air Magic, and Book of Earth Magic.

2) Two relics that you didn't get in your generation are clearly present on the map, and therefore do not participate in the random pool.

In reply to Plotnick

Marmot

13 years ago

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Plotnick

I already mentioned the bot I wrote.

Plotnick, if you know how to program, you can try using a debugger to swap an artifact on the map after a specific layout has been generated. I can't and don't want to do that: if a map can be completed without it, I should "play with the cards I'm dealt." The map creators (except in cases of clearly inappropriate designs) have calculated what, when, and how the player should do to win. In the case of "Gift-2001," this is exactly the case: a lot has been written about this map on the forums (see the comments in the map catalog and this thread in the HP Tavern, where the author himself participated in the discussion) - and, by the way, the player also gets the Dimension Door, but only at the very end of the playthrough.
If you get too carried away with restarts to "catch" the desired artifacts and spells, your skill level will become highly dependent on a "convenient" layout.
And one more thing about the oddities of the random number generator in "Heroes": I struggled with this several times when, at a very inconvenient moment, Plague Week would appear; it seemed that if I exited, re-entered, loaded an autosave, and made a turn, something else should appear! But nothing like that: time after time, Plague Week would appear again!:( But some of the player's actions affect its appearance: during this struggle, I suddenly discovered that building a building in a city changes which week will come. In particular, in one case, I avoided Plague Week by NOT building a certain building, and in another (literally the other day) - on the contrary, I built a building - and Plague Week did not appear! Keep this in mind, it will be useful.

In reply to Ник 1

Plotnick

13 years ago

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Nik 1

1) Spells such as Fly, Dimension Door, and Choke are disabled on the map - and consequently, all generators that grant them, including artifacts like the Orator's Hat, Book of Air Magic, and Book of Earth Magic.

2) Two relics that you didn't get in your generation are clearly present on the map, and therefore do not participate in the random pool.

1. And I thought that disabling certain spells only affected their drop rate in towns and sanctuaries. So that's how it works?

2. Live and learn. Does this mean that any artifact located on the map will never drop in tombs, Dragon Utopia, or other one-time generators?

Marmot

your level of play will depend heavily on a "convenient" layout

I don't see the connection. For example, if the Helmet of Divine Enlightenment drops in a warrior's tomb instead of a unicorn mane bowstring—will that somehow affect my skill? Hardly. You might be able to complete the map faster with a lucky layout, and that's all. Some mobs or banks might be broken through earlier. In any case, I will put in every effort I am capable of, but in one scenario it will happen sooner, and in another later. Provided, of course, that the game is played for speed rather than just to complete it.

Marmot

I fought this several times when a Week of Plague would suddenly drop at the most inconvenient moment; you'd think: exit, enter again, load an autosave, end turn - and something else should drop! But nothing of the sort: time and again, the Week of Plague dropped again!

Show a little more patience and luck will smile upon you :) Sometimes the Plague gives in after the first autosave reload.

Marmot

13 years ago

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The discussion, however, has strayed from the topic stated in the title: "Walkthrough of standard maps for SPEED".
Dear moderators! I suggest moving the posts, starting from #107, or better yet, from point 2 of #106, from the words

2. Now let's return to the map Podarok_2001

, to the topic "The most difficult maps for you," and you can continue the discussion of the "Podarok-2001" map there.

1) On the map, the spells Flight, Dimension Door, and Suffocation are disabled - and accordingly, all generators that provide them, including artifacts, such as the Orator's Hat, the Book of Air Magic, and the Book of Earth Magic.

That is, you claim that if, for example, Flight is prohibited, the game will never place artifacts that grant it on the map? I doubt that it does this on its own; there are two tabs in the map settings for a reason: Spells and Artifacts. It would be best to verify this through testing, and not on this map, but on a specially created "blank" map with a lot of random artifact generators.
I just checked. It turns out to be an interesting thing: when "powerful" spells (Flight, Dimension Door, Water Walking, Elemental summoning) are prohibited, the tomes of magic and the Wizard's Hat that grant them do not appear, but the Angel Wings and Boots of Levitation still appear!

In reply to Plotnick

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Plotnick

1. And I thought that disabling certain spells only affected their drop rate in towns and sanctuaries. Is that really how it works?

2. Live and learn. Does this mean that any artifact placed on the map will never drop in tombs, Dragon Utopias, or terpilahs?

Exactly. If a certain spell is banned, then an artifact that grants it cannot drop.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Marmot

13 years ago

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Dirty_Player

If a spell is prohibited, then the artifact that grants it cannot appear.

Valuable information (especially for mapmakers)! However, to be consistent, the developers, considering what I said about Wings and Boots, should also disable their appearance: because these artifacts are even better than the corresponding spells, since:
1) they don't require Advanced/Expert Wisdom!
2) they don't consume mana;
3) they always work, even on cursed land!

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Wings of the Angel and Boots of Levitation do not add spells to the spellbook; they grant corresponding abilities. Therefore, it's important not to confuse them. In general, there are too few categories for artifact value in the game, as comparing Wings of the Angel to the Dragon Tooth Crown or the Angel Alliance to any of its components is absurd. There should be at least Artifact Tier 5 and Artifact Tier 6. This is just my opinion, of course.

Plotnick

13 years ago

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Chingis

Plotnick, why do you need the Orator's Hat for a speedrun? It's pointless for speed.

I just didn't know it wouldn't drop. If you looked at the Podarok_2001 map, you should have noticed that everything else you're talking about is clearly prohibited there. But the hat isn't. Or rather, as I now understand, it's implicitly prohibited through spells. And the hero is given at the beginning with stats of 8-8-9-9 and intelligence. So there's plenty of mana.
I must say that the hat wouldn't have given an instant win either. You can't complete it in a week, because at the end there's a hero with a lot of troops and stats of 99. But what's the point in talking about it now, if you can't get the hat anyway? You can only take boots to increase speed. The current record is around 66 days, I don't think I'll manage to do it faster. I played at a leisurely pace and finished in 180 days. But my main villain drowned in the sea, so I had to defeat everyone. And then I bought him and he helped me :)

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Chingis

Plotnick, why do you need the Orator's Hat for a fast-paced game? It's pointless for speed.

How can that be? You can replenish mana, what's so difficult about it? There are wells; you can replenish mana for everyone by passing a single artifact. You can also dismiss a hero with an artifact that grants knowledge, and the next day, buy a hero with full mana :) In short, if there's a will, there's a way.

Niemand

13 years ago

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Chingis

I put on something with Knowledge, jump into a well, then change clothes.

Everyone does that.

Chingis

I noticed that if you spend the night in a town, your mana refills to the max in the morning. So, you put on all the Knowledge artifacts, spend the night in a town, and in the morning, your mana is at its maximum.
Or am I mistaken? Or does this trick only work at the beginning of a new WEEK? A VERY important question. ;)

Spending the night in a town completely restores your mana. It doesn't depend on the day of the week.