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Posts from HoMM3 HD is a mod (add-on) for the game Heroes of Might and Magic 3.

HD mod and expansions.
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Offline Yourdestiny
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Posts: 191
#1148
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[+] after a quick battle ends, the player, if they disagree with the results, can replay the battle themselves (as in WT) (only in SoD/Complete/HotA).

Wow, that's amazing, I'm switching from version 2.98 to version 3 = - )
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Offline baratorch
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#1149
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Dirty_Player
By the way, the autobattle will differ from the regular one in that magic is not consumed. This is certainly good for online play, but for offline play, it slightly changes the essence. Therefore, maybe this option should be made switchable? In the sense that there should be an option to return the classic quick battle.
Exactly!
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HoMM 3 HD:

последняя версия - 5.0 RC96 (19.09.2020)

последнее видео: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70wC0DJ7I8

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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1150
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By the way, the autobattle will differ from the regular one in that magic is not consumed. This is certainly good for online play, but for offline play, it slightly changes the essence. So, maybe this option should be made switchable? In the sense that there should be an option to revert to the classic quick battle.
Oelm
The quick battle is the same in all versions.
Nonsense. The mechanism is the same, but in SOD, it consumes mana, summoning some elementals in a battle with some troglodytes.
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Offline Marmot
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Posts: 2,132
#1151
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Dirty_Player
The mechanism is the same, but in SoD, it consumes mana to summon elementals in battles against, say, troglodytes.
Therefore, it would be good to make quick battles more flexible/intelligently configurable: for example, let mana not be used if the battle is won without losses anyway, or directly specify: a battle with magic or without (in the mod settings or ask before the battle). Well, and, of course, different types of magic can also be used: a shield requires little mana, but if you summon elementals in every round or hit unfortunate troglodytes with an explosion... :)
HoMM3 HD 3.0 RC5
Well, I'm ready to test this marvel, otherwise I'll fall so far behind that I won't understand anything anymore! :) Now I can express my comments and suggestions, as someone who has experienced it. :)
By the way, baratorch, please correct the signature ("latest version..."). :)

Installed, tested, it works. The first remark (it was also in 2.9x): my monitor works in 1024x768 mode; in the list of possible window sizes, there is 954x716, but at the same time, the bottom line is completely "hidden" under the taskbar! :( In 2.9x, I manually set 954x700 through the ini file. Can't you adjust at least a couple of the most common modes, reducing the window size vertically by 16 pixels, so that you don't have to adjust it manually?
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
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Offline Yourdestiny
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#1152
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Installed RC5, I'm thrilled, the quick combat is really great! Thanks, reducing the game time is a huge plus.
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Offline Сатир
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Posts: 1,378
#1153
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I haven't visited this thread in a while, and there's so much good stuff here! The main thing is that it all works on Windows 7 x64.

Update: For the graphics patch, I renamed the executable and deleted the original. Can anyone upload the complete Russian version?

Never mind, I don't need it anymore.
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1154
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baratorch
For online play, without changing the original rules, I only allow one question before each battle: quick battle or not, and nothing more.
In WoG, there is an option where 3 choices are offered before a battle:
1. Normal battle
2. Quick battle
3. Quick battle without using magic
Of course, in a quick battle, it wasn't possible to replay. But if it will be possible to change the result of the battle, then such a dialog box loses its meaning, because everyone will first look at the losses in the quick battle, hoping for luck :smile01:

Perhaps it could be done like this: If quick battle is turned off, then a quick battle without magic is used, with the possibility to replay. And if quick battle is turned on, then the classic implementation?
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Offline baratorch
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#1155
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I meant the following: if the ImprovedGameplay option is enabled, the game runs with a replayable quick battle without magic (as it is now in RC6). If not, then in offline mode, the game runs with a replayable standard quick battle, and in online mode, before the battle, players are given a choice (as in WoG): to have a standard quick battle or a manual battle. This way, the game will not differ from SoD. *** Some people don't understand why I put the replayable quick battle without magic in ImprovedGameplay in RC6. I'll explain in detail: The presence of a replayable auto-battle for one player and the absence of it for another in online play puts players in unequal conditions: First, the second player, no matter how hard they try, cannot replay the quick battle in a pure SoD version. Second, the second player, no matter how hard they try, cannot have a quick battle without magic in a pure SoD version. Therefore, one player is playing in SoD, and the other is playing in something that is not quite SoD (but SoD with a replayable quick battle without magic). In RC6, I eliminated this unfairness. If you want a completely pure SoD (in terms of gameplay), turn off the ImprovedGameplay option. If you want a replayable auto-battle, turn on ImprovedGameplay. And everyone is satisfied: both the ultra-super-mega-conservative SoD players (like R55Max) and people who value the absence of bugs and convenience.
HoMM 3 HD:

последняя версия - 5.0 RC96 (19.09.2020)

последнее видео: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70wC0DJ7I8

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Offline R55Max
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#1156
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Message from Oelm:
Max, what you're writing says two things about you:

1. You haven't really played Quick Combat, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to judge.

This only reflects your point of view, but it doesn't mean your point of view is correct. But that's not the point. The point is that if one person effectively utilizes its advantages, and another doesn't, then it will definitely have a significant impact, and that's the whole point.
Message from baratorch:
I haven't played Quick Combat..., but when I learned about this feature, I immediately appreciated its benefits and immediately wanted this feature in HD.
Here's the first reason why the implementation is bad. You need to play online; if not, you need to consult with a sufficient number of SOD players who have experience with online games. It's wrong to implement something just because it seems good. This applies to releasing a version for SOD players, not just for yourself.
In online play, I can't imagine what game advantages auto-battle can give (or take away) from a player.
What, R55Max, is the specific harshness of the game without auto-battle? With a concrete, real example with numbers?

Here are some general views on Quick Combat:

1. Elementary knowledge of the basics in battles with neutrals. A player's skill is also measured by their ability to conduct battles manually, not by the computer doing it for them. Let's take 100 players, including newbies and masters, give everyone the same army, and position them the same way. 100 battles will result in 100 identical results (if we consider the Quick Combat algorithm), but if done manually, there may be a different number of outcomes, ranging from one to 100, and there are hundreds of such battles in the game. In each one, a small difference accumulates, creating an overall difference in skill.

2. Secondly, Quick Combat with the ability to replay... This already sounds absurd in SOD. Maybe it would be better to implement the ability to replay each battle a second time if something didn't go well the first time? :confused:
And then it would be even easier to just give auto-battle for every turn...
When Quick Combat is not replayable, it carries a huge risk, which is simply eliminated to zero, once and for all.

3. They say that, except for the hydra in the Hive, everything is fine with Quick Combat... I don't understand what "not counting" means. You NEED to count it first, because knowing this, people will always use it.

4.
Message from Oelm:
To think that Quick Combat will decide the outcome on the second week, and after that, is just the delusion of an optimistic person.
Here's what I mean:
Message from baratorch:
Hoping to win by playing worse than Quick Combat, i.e., worse than AI, is utter foolishness. You won't even reach your opponent because the AI will defeat you, and you play worse than it.
Quick Combat is only needed to avoid wasting time on a battle that you will 100% win without losses or with predictable, acceptable losses.

If it doesn't decide anything, meaning it always performs worse, then what's the point? The answer is wasting time. But why waste less time if it degrades the quality of the battle in SOD? The mod has already significantly reduced the time spent on "unnecessary" clicks, etc. Removing manual battle control is already too much.
I, for example, don't play online at all just because I don't like the length of the game. Things that speed it up (without simplifying or changing the gameplay) are definitely a good thing.
I agree that it's a good thing, but not everything that reduces the game is good. These changes need to be approached selectively. One thing is reducing the time required to perform certain actions, and another is reducing the gameplay by reducing human execution.
For example, I think there are people who will find the game uninteresting if it turns into a one- or two-hour experience with infinite acceleration, including a full-fledged game with normal feedback.

Message from Oelm:
True SOD players are very resistant to any innovations.
This is normal, and it's the right approach.
Message from Scorpiona:
Previously, auto-battle would play out, and that was it, but now there's the option to reject the result of auto-battle and replay it yourself.
This is important, I agree.
Message from baratorch:
Secondly, the second one, no matter how hard he tries, won't be able to run Quick Combat without magic in pure SOD.
Therefore, it turns out that one person is playing SOD, and the other is playing something that's not quite SOD (but SOD with replayable Quick Combat without magic). In RC6, I eliminated this unfairness. If you want a completely pure SOD (in terms of gameplay), turn off the ImprovedGameplay option. If you want replayable auto-battle, turn on all ImprovedGameplay. And everyone is satisfied: both ultra-super-mega-conservative SOD players (like R55Max) and people who value the absence of bugs and convenience.

I would like to correct the statement about R55Max. He values the absence of bugs and the convenience of the HD mod. If there is any doubt about this, read our correspondence in PM; there are many statements confirming this value. The seemingly conservative assessment from others should not be misleading, as changes to SOD for the better and the movement of HD in that direction have been supported by me from the very beginning of the mod's development:

http://clip2net.com/s/2f58O

I don't understand how implementing replayable Quick Combat is related to this. It's clearly adding new gameplay, not inherent, not fixed, not a bug, with new functionality. In my opinion, this is already an approach to existing games (SOD, Warlords, Warlords with SOD) - SOD adapted for Warlords. I would like to remind you that Warlords adapted for SOD is not recognized by either Warlords players or SOD players.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Oelm
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#1157
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Some people don't understand why I included the replayable quick battle without magic in ImprovedGameplay in RC6.
I'll explain in detail:

Having a replayable autobattle for one player and not for another in online play puts players at a disadvantage:
Firstly, the second player, no matter how hard they try, won't be able to replay the quick battle in a pure SoD (Standard Options, Default settings) game.
Secondly, the second player, no matter how hard they try, won't be able to run a quick battle without magic in a pure SoD game.
Therefore, one player is playing in SoD, while the other is playing in something that isn't quite SoD (but SoD with a replayable quick battle without magic). In RC6, I eliminated this unfairness. If you want a completely pure SoD (in terms of gameplay), turn off the ImprovedGameplay option. If you want a replayable autobattle, turn on all of ImprovedGameplay. And everyone is happy: both the ultra-super-mega-conservative SoD players (like R55Max) and people who value the absence of bugs and convenience.

These are very interesting conclusions. Did R55Max hypnotize you?

If one player uses the HD-MOD and the other doesn't, they are ALREADY at a disadvantage. One can make a move 20-30% faster, and the other cannot. Isn't this a drawback of the HD-MOD?

Those who don't use the HD-MOD shell can't do things that are possible with it. So, should we make the HD-MOD optional?

The difference with the optional quick combat is that one player will spend less of their precious time, as well as less of their opponent's precious time, on this process. What does Improved Gameplay have to do with it? Explain.
This only reflects your point of view, but that doesn't mean your point of view is correct. But that's not the point; if one person skillfully implements its advantages, and the other doesn't use it, then it will indeed be very, very important, and that's the whole point.

The advantage is in saving real time. And that's it.
Elementary knowledge of the mechanics in battles with neutrals. A player's skill also includes the ability to conduct battles manually, not just letting the computer do it for them. Let's take 100 players, including newbies and masters, give everyone the same army, and set them up the same way. 100 battles will result in 100 identical results (if we consider the quick battle algorithm), but if it's done manually, there may be a different number of different outcomes, from one to 100, and there are HUNDREDS of such battles in the game. In each one, a small difference accumulates, and this creates the overall difference in skill.
Absurd! Rather, SoD players have the opportunity to improve their skills by using quick battles.
Secondly, a quick battle with the ability to replay... It already sounds absurd in SoD. Maybe we should introduce the ability to replay each battle on the second try if something didn't go well the first time?
And then it would be even easier to just let the computer make every move...
When the quick battle is not replayable, it carries a huge risk, which is simply and completely eliminated once and for all.

Why doesn't it sound absurd to use a quick detachment of single units? The logic is the same.

Regarding the Hydras. I don't understand, gentlemen, true SoD players, do you have a hangover from the weekend? Explain what the difference is if I take a Hive with Hydras with the option enabled or disabled. If I'm going into this battle, I'm going in with a quick battle in any version, SoD, WoG, with or without magic, because otherwise, it's a loss. If you don't know this, then you simply won't go into this battle, again, in any of the versions.

In general, there is a small class of battles where a quick battle in the same Hive will be more advantageous than taking it manually, but at the same time, many will try to take it manually. Like taking it with archers, only this is a lack of skill, and not something else... (I can already feel them spitting with rage).
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline Сатир
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#1158
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I'm too lazy to read all these lengthy texts, but what does moving the autobattle feature to ImprovedGameplay change, other than requiring a couple of clicks to enable it?
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

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Offline GoD
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#1159
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Basically, we have a problem: we're playing against an opponent who has the ND mod version 2.98... I'm the host... when he joins, the system warns that the opponent's mod version is lower than 3.0... as a result, when generating the map, I can't select the type of roads - or rather, I can select it, but it generates randomly... also, the number of moves for the hero is not displayed at all - it doesn't show up in any way - in the previous version, right-clicking on the green bar was responsible for this, but now nothing happens at all...
"РЫЦАРЬ АПОКАЛИПСИСА"

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Offline baratorch
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#1160
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I just conducted a test: with 0 attack/defense and with artifacts that prevent spirit/luck, I attack a Chaos Hive with 90 dragonflies using 4 Chaos Hydras.
Quick battle - 0 losses.
Autobattle (the button in battle) - 1 Hydra dies.
Consistently.

I observed how the function for inflicting damage from one stack to another is called.
Quick battle and autobattle run the battle differently!
In quick battle, after all the dragonflies bite the Hydra at the beginning, they STOP MOVING!!! The Hydra stands there and mercilessly kills the dragonflies standing around it!!!!!!!!
I will work on a fix, making quick battle identical to autobattle, and then all these changes will definitely have a place in ImprovedGameplay.

Added 3 minutes later
When generating a map, I can't select the type of roads - or rather, I can select it, but it generates randomly...
Let's see, we'll fix it..
The number of moves for the hero is not displayed at all - in the previous version, right-clicking on the green bar was responsible for this, but now nothing happens...
In 3.0, move points will only be displayed when playing vs. 3.0 (or offline).
The point is that either MP is displayed for everyone, or for no one. Fairness and equality!! which 2.98 violates
HoMM 3 HD:

последняя версия - 5.0 RC96 (19.09.2020)

последнее видео: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70wC0DJ7I8

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Offline Medium_HP
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#1161
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Satyr
I'm too lazy to read all these long posts, but what does moving the autobattle to ImprovedGameplay change, other than the fact that you need to click a couple of times to enable it?
Moving the autobattle to ImprovedGameplay means that it can only be used against an opponent with the same version of the mod. That is, in a game against ideological opponents, and those who are simply too lazy to install/update the mod, you will have to do without quick battles or put up with the fact that a quick battle, like an angel vs. butterflies, consumes mana.
baratorch
in quick battles, after all the dragonflies bite the hydra at the beginning, they STOP MOVING!!! the hydra stands there and unpunished kills the dragonflies standing around it!!!!!!!!
I will work on a fix...
This is a well-known fact; AlexSpl wrote about it here. The opportunity to use it in the game is not often available, and it can be perceived as a feature, like the towers.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
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Offline c0nn3c71nkK.ppL
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#1162
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As I understand it, the concept of a "feature" is a traditional and widespread use of bugs and flaws in the game, and if there's a possibility to fix a flaw or bug, people tend to strongly oppose it. These "features" also included viewing the opponent's towns, resources, and essentially cloning heroes. I think that if errors are to be fixed, they should be fixed completely. Thanks to Baratorch for the mod and for the detailed investigation of the hydra phenomenon in the clues!
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