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Posts from Problems and bugs in Tournament themes.

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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#16
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On www.toheroes.com, that's how it worked, plus there was a special page for unreported games, and as soon as a game was confirmed, the information was automatically removed from there.
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Offline pHOMM
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#17
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I’ll add to the post by R55Max
The choice of town and starting hero should also have the option of random — if the town is random, it’s logical that the hero is also random right away, and with a set town (usually for Necropolis/Conflux), only the starting hero is random.

I have an idea, perhaps a bit rough but still something. It’s possible to split the report into a dry, official part and a freeform part. Then, in the tournament thread, a player submits a report using a button on a special form, and their opponent also confirms it with a button. The post automatically gets links to the official report header and a confirmation mark. In the freeform part — the post itself — let them write whatever they want; they can even just copy the header from the official part (you could even add a button on the form or forcibly copy the header into the post) and add notes as the game progresses. Of course, if they add screenshots or saves, those are uploaded via the special form, and links and previews are automatically attached to the post, and any extra material can be included as well, just like in a regular post.

This way, the post will both collect information from a properly formatted report and allow freeform writing.

The result — the organizer and observers will get statistics from the database of pre-made formatted reports; you could even auto-collect those into the first, second, or third post of the tournament thread, and for those who want to read, they can browse the thread.

The rating is naturally calculated automatically — here I agree with the previous speakers
Инфа о разных моих проектах, по большей части геройских, тут http://phomm.narod.ru
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Offline Pit for LM
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#18
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In our Tournaments section, there are tournament-related topics and quite a few topics where reports aren't written; instead, something is just discussed.
Also, fan tournaments sometimes happen, and their games don't count towards the rating.

Therefore, it would probably be more convenient to add an extra "Tournament" button next to the button for creating a new topic, so that such a tournament topic differs from discussion topics by allowing users to write reports:

It would also be nice to automatically provide posts at the beginning of such a topic for rules, lists of participants, draws, and a list of games, into which links to reports would be automatically inserted.

Naturally, a message with a report will appear among other messages in the topic as usual, and it can be discussed as we are used to. There is no point in duplicating reports on a separate tab.
The difference is a template for writing a report and instant automatic calculation.

Confirmation.
Perhaps, we could do this:
if a user has no unconfirmed games, then they have an active "Write Report" button, while the "Confirm Report" button is grayed out.
if there are unconfirmed games, then, conversely, "Confirm" is active, and you cannot write one.
Ivor
But it needs to redirect confirmation with the report to the correct topic automatically.
Yes.
However, we should also consider some mechanism for canceling a report because these problems occur periodically.
R55Max
Then a form pops up...
Don't worry about the form; that's my responsibility. I will provide all the information to the Creator; after more than two years, I already know what is needed...
Yes, including the tournament name would be good.
R55Max
Tournament reports should be valued more, not equated to seasonal ones; thus, we will increase the value of games in tournaments and make it more difficult to win a season by defeating average players and Новичок.
This is a very complex issue. Should we introduce a separate coefficient for each tournament? How do we determine it? How do we guess it in advance before registration? Should reports from, for example, a Новичок tournament also be valued higher? Are reports from the group stage of a major tournament worth more than those from a seeded tournament when assigning seeds?

Statistics.
I really like what SAG did on WCL.
There are statistics for each player, for all games, for templates, various sorting options...
I think we can just borrow all the ideas, and it will be great...
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Offline Javdet
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Posts: 3,093
#19
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"This is a very complex question. Should we introduce a separate coefficient for each tournament? How should it be determined? How can it be guessed in advance, before registration? Should reports from, for example, the Novice tournament also be valued higher? Should reports from the group stage of a major tournament be worth more when seeding players into brackets than a regular season report?" I think we need to try it out; we'll find suitable coefficients through trial and error. When creating a tournament topic, we should give the topic author the ability to set a coefficient from 1 to 3. The coefficient could depend either on the importance of the tournament or the number of participants. For example, a Novice group stage could be 1, and the final pool could be 1.5. Jeb could be 1.5 for the first round and for the loser's bracket, and 2.5 for the winner's bracket. Favorites could be 2 and 3. FB (Final Battle) could be 2.5 and 3. The qualifier for FB could be 1.5 and 2. Of course, these numbers are open for discussion.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline R55Max
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#20
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Сообщение от PHOMM:
The choice of town and starting hero should also have the option of random. If the town is random, it's logical that the hero is also immediately random, and with a town (usually for Necropolis/Conflux) only the starting hero is random.
This is solved simply; I lost this thought while writing my previous post. In the form, you need to add 2 checkboxes in the report header on the left side, for example:
1. - all random - the entire game is random.
2. - random - only the heroes are random.

Сообщение от Pit for LM:
Confirmation.
Probably, we could do this:
if a user has no unconfirmed games, then the "Write a report" button is active for them, and the "Confirm report" button is greyed out.
if there are unconfirmed reports, then, conversely, "Confirm" is active, and you cannot write a new one.

I disagree. The idea itself is good, but unworkable. Situations are possible where players quit and their nicknames disappear in the present. A person might return to their name in a year or two and won't care at all about previous games.

Quote:Сообщение от Ivor :
Only it's necessary for the confirmation with the report to be automatically redirected to the correct thread.

Obviously. Everything should go into specific threads.

Сообщение от Pit for LM:
A very complex issue. Should we introduce a separate coefficient for each tournament? How to determine it? How to guess it in advance before registration? For example, should reports from the Новичок tournament also be valued higher? Are reports from the group stage of a large tournament with seeding by pots worth more than seasonal ones?

It's not complex, just labor-intensive, but very simple. I'm ready to discuss it via correspondence.
The newbie tournament is worth less than a forum fun game; a newbie playoff game could be made equivalent to a forum fun game.

Сообщение от Javdet
I think we need to try it; by trial and error, normal coefficients will be found.
As funny as it sounds, it's actually fair on the path to something, since there is no fairer rating. I've been nurturing this thought for a long time and have heard it from many players. Someone (WE) needs to create a rating by sight, then create a calculation system that will be unbiased.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Pit for LM
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#21
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R55Max
I disagree. The idea itself is good, but it's not feasible. There may be situations where players leave and their nicknames disappear in the present. A person may return after a year or two with their name and won't care about past games.
Well, it doesn't depend on your agreement or disagreement. Our seasonal rules include mandatory confirmation. This was adopted after a long discussion and cannot be canceled by your single vote.
And for нестандартных and rare cases, I suggested that a system for canceling reports should be provided, and it should be possible for judges (or moderators) to do this.
We can also consider the possibility of "burning" unconfirmed reports, for example, after six months.

Regarding changing the rating calculation system. In the 2 years that I have been running the rating, people periodically appear who want to change the system and offer formulas. I have calculated it using other formulas several times, and there has never been any improvement compared to the existing system.
I've probably written this ten times, I'll repeat what I said:
If you, [insert the appropriate nickname], want to change the way the rating is calculated, then your algorithm should be as follows:
- clearly think about what you want to propose;
- write formulas suitable for programming;
- program it yourself or find a programmer;
- suggest that the forum discuss your system;
- calculate using this system for a couple of seasons, get specific results;
- conduct a vote - what is better - your system or the one that exists now.
And only then, if your system is liked by the forum, it will be the official formula.

Introducing coefficients for tournament games is essentially incorrect. This will not solve the problem:
it will increase the difficulty of winning a season by defeating average and newbie players.
On the contrary. Nothing will change for those who were defeating newbies in the season, but in a tournament, not only will more be added, but more will also be subtracted for a loss. A loss (especially to someone lower in the ranking) will push the player so far down that it will be to the advantage of those who don't play in tournaments. You should at least analyze the current formulas first.
And I completely don't understand how the game of GoD - Gomunguls in the season fundamentally differs from their game in HWC or FB? Why should the value of a victory and a loss between two opponents in different tournaments differ by a factor of several times? We still have players who count one game in several tournaments... It will be interesting if the coefficient is 1 in one tournament and 2 in another...

The current calculation system was not taken out of thin air; it is a strict mathematical construction, carefully considered and tested.
normal coefficients can be found by trial and error.
Rom, I'm sorry, but that's not mathematics.
If there is a desire, then first you need to experiment for six months, search, and make sure that it will be better (based on my experience working with the rating, I see that it will not be better), i.e., it is necessary to prove this with numbers, and not with vague words, and only then introduce it as a system on the forum. So far, there are only completely unsubstantiated and highly controversial statements...
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#22
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Why not place the report confirmation button in the same location as the report itself? Next to the "Quote" button, add a "Confirm Report" button that would only be available when your username is mentioned in the report.
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Offline R55Max
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#23
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Message from Pit for LM:
Of course, we can also consider the possibility of "discarding" unconfirmed reports after, say, six months.
That's what I meant. I wrote about this in the thread about reports from the previous season.
Well, it doesn't depend on your agreement or disagreement.
Nothing directly depends on me, and you shouldn't try to push this on me. I'm just living in the forum community and expressing my opinion on what I read in the first post:
The main questions that we need to solve together are: how will it be most convenient for us to write reports? how will this system be integrated into the forum?
What is best for us? Also, any other suggestions and comments are welcome.
I might not even write anything if that's what it comes down to... Or do you think that crowds of people will be writing here with a new, half-year-tested rating? What is being written and said here now is the basis for YOUR work and the CREATOR'S work, since he raised this issue. They won't be posting coursework with mathematically verified algorithms for new ratings, and that needs to be understood. Moreover, you created this topic when you deemed it necessary, which means you were ready for a discussion and had a certain amount of knowledge about it.
And I completely don't understand how the game GoD - Gomunguls in the season differs in principle from their game in HWC or Facebook? Why should the value of a victory and defeat between two opponents in different tournaments differ by a factor of several times?
Because there is (let's take a real example) a friendly match, the Russian championship, the European championship, the world championship, and the Olympic Games, and there are also stages such as 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, FINAL. The status of the tournament and its stage has always been, is, and will be a fundamental principle for determining the importance of a victory in all sports!
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Pit for LM
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Posts: 2,468
#24
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Dirty_Player
Why not place the report confirmation button in the same location as the report itself? Next to the "Quote" button, place a "Confirm Report" button that would only be available when your nickname is mentioned in the report.
Yes, I also thought about that option. The counter-argument is that confirmations are often not immediate, but rather happen after a few days, or even weeks (depending on how often the player visits the forum), and searching for the right report can be time-consuming. A link is not always sent, and it can get lost. But if you immediately see a Confirm Report button and it automatically redirects you to the correct topic and report (or list of reports), it seems like it would be faster and more convenient.

To R55Max: I'm not trying to "push" anything on you; to all my quotes in your post, you need to add the topic title:
Automatic Rating: Choosing the Integration Method into the Forum
This topic is not about canceling the report confirmation system or changing the rating calculation system.
The topic was created at the Creator's request specifically to determine a convenient way to integrate the automatic system into the forum. That's all.
It will not be difficult to change the formula later. Prove that your formula is better (in another topic), and then it can be used.
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Offline Vatya
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#25
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What’s the status of the new report format? I’m talking about the automated system…
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Offline Pit for LM
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#26
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Based on the results of our discussion, I wrote a letter to the Creator. Now it's up to him...
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Offline Lider1
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#27
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Midnight is approaching, and Herman is still not here.

Oh, Creator, Creator...
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline .DiGGeR.
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Posts: 137
#28
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Lider1
Midnight is approaching, but German still hasn't arrived (a quote)

Oh, Creator, Creator...
And who is the Creator?:smile32:
skype-digger3008 iсq-614926857
http://pdj.cc/FfjQH-Готовтесь Иду в бой:smile14:
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Offline PlayHeroes_HP
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Posts: 343
#29
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.DiGGeR.
Who is the Creator?:smile32:
The Creator, that's his nickname. If you didn't know. :)
Пока!
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