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Posts from “Who is stronger?” – Might versus Magic.

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In reply to JonnyP
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JonnyP
Based on the numbers and the number of rounds, it's all approximate, but even so, on average, it will be 10-20 rounds with a final. And of course, the more participants, the more rounds.
That's too many games, not everyone is ready to play that much.
I, for one, can...
Let's play a round-robin tournament, and you guys decide about the super final: either team-based or 1v1.
My task as an organizer is to make sure the tournament is enjoyable for most of its participants...
P.S. And it's not a given that the 17th participant won't be needed, as someone is likely to drop out, even with such a small number of participants...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
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Guys, what prevents us from identifying the two strongest players from each side and playing a final arena match, 2 vs. 2, with a pool of 4 races? And if we have 8 or 9 registered players, wouldn't it be easier to play qualifying rounds in a round-robin tournament, as Moz suggested, with each player having a pool of 4 races and one player as a substitute? Why create 4 stages? We identify the strongest in a round-robin, hold a final – and identify the strongest faction in 4 matches. In my opinion, it's beautiful and logical. P.S. That's only 12 rounds in total.
In reply to KillAndAction
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KillAndAction
There will be too many games, not everyone is ready to play like that...
There are only 8 rounds + the final with 17 participants. I wrote the example for 30 players.
What prevents us from identifying the two strongest players from each side and playing a 2v2 arena final with a pool of 4 races? And if we have 8 on 9 registered, wouldn't it be easier to play qualifying rounds in a round-robin tournament, as Moz suggested, with a pool of 4x2 races for each player, and one player as a substitute? Why create 4 stages?
The stages are only needed to reset the win/loss points and for repeated personal matches between players – so that there are no obvious winners in the groups. With 17 players, the 1st stage can be removed.
Substitutes are not needed at all; there will still be technical losses and dynamic players.
I'm not forcing anyone; I'm just suggesting an idea, since we haven't decided on the tournament format yet. In any case, I will play, although towards the end of the tournament, a 'feeling of non-obligation' arises.

Ps: there are currently 19 players, and it's not a fact that this is the end.
In reply to JonnyP
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Basically, a round-robin format is only needed to have fun in a tournament, not to determine the strongest players in a group, as fewer rounds are needed in a Swiss-system tournament. Therefore, the group format will depend on the number of participants. I suggest not rushing the start of the tournament; maybe more people will join, and then we can decide. P.S. By the way, I recalculated the players; if we count Moza, there are already 20: 18. sir_moz "Magic" 19. XREH "Might" 20. ekzekutor "Magic" So, there are 10 in Might and 10 in Magic. Therefore, a pure round-robin format would definitely be inappropriate here; 9 rounds are too long and unnecessary.
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
In reply to Adv
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I've updated the list.
So, we'll extend the registration period by 10 days, until August 11th.
And we'll probably need to create a poll based on the tournament format, once we determine the number of participants...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
Сервер в Discord
Стрим на twitch.tv
Стрим на GG

ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
In reply to KillAndAction
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KillAndAction
we are extending the registration period by 10 days, i.e., until August 11.
if we are going to extend it, we need to somehow encourage people – either by writing to each person on ICQ and asking, or by updating posts on other forums more regularly. Otherwise, what's the point of extending it:rolleyes:
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JonnyP
if you're going to extend the deadline, you need to somehow encourage people to participate – either by messaging everyone individually and asking them, or by updating posts on other forums more regularly. Otherwise, what's the point of extending it? :rolleyes:
You can also encourage participation by inviting friends, etc. The registration deadline is being extended because the beginning of August is not the best time for tournaments; some people are on vacation, others are preparing to go on vacation, etc.
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
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Okay, if we have significantly more than 16 participants, let's run a Swiss-system tournament with 8 rounds to ensure all factions are used. That seems logical. In my opinion, the main thing is to avoid conflicts between representatives of the same faction. I've already described the second stage – it will consist of another 4 rounds, and ideally, we'll complete the entire tournament in 3 months.
In reply to Noom
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Noom
I already wrote about the second stage – there will be 4 more rounds – ideally, we will complete the entire tournament in 3 months.
There is no need to read between the lines; I am proposing 8 rounds in 2 stages (Stage 1 – 5 rounds, Stage 2 – 3 rounds). There are no 12 rounds here. All factions will be played twice. The final round will, of course, be played with any faction.
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Noom
Okay, if the number exceeds 16, should we conduct a Swiss-system tournament with 8 rounds to ensure all factions are used? That seems logical. In my opinion, the main thing is to avoid conflicts between representatives of the same faction. I already wrote about the second stage – it will consist of 4 rounds, and ideally, we will complete the entire tournament in 3 months.
A Swiss-system tournament with 8 rounds is not possible, even with 24 players, as it will be impossible to find pairs with an equal number of points without repeated matches.
P.S. The most suitable option seems to be 2 groups of 12 players each, a Swiss-system tournament with 6 rounds, and the top 4 from each group advance.
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
In reply to Adv
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Currently, I think the following option is the best.

Stage 1: Swiss-system tournament with 4 rounds per week. Strength plays against Magic, the first round is random, and then players are paired randomly based on the number of points, without repeats. After 4 rounds, if there is a tie in points, the winner is the one who defeated stronger opponents, with a coefficient as in the previous tournament. If that's not enough, we'll have additional games. We select the top 8.
Stage 2: Playoffs. 1 from Strength against 8 from Magic, and immediately create a bracket all the way to the final. It doesn't matter which faction wins; from then on, everyone plays according to the bracket, with Magic factions playing Magic factions and Strength factions playing Strength factions if that's how it turns out. And even if the top spots end up being taken by one group, for example, the top 4 spots are Magic factions.

And most importantly, in my opinion! With this scheme, there are 8 rounds, 4 in the group stage and 4 in the playoffs. Each participant must play 1 game with each race in each stage. The races are determined before the game by a judge, assistants, or a trusted person. In principle, you can create a list before the tournament for each participant for 8 rounds, with the races distributed across the rounds! This would reduce the stress, in my opinion. We can vote on this.

The goal of the group stage is to have fun. The goal of the playoffs is to identify the strongest player and the strongest group of factions.

It's all simple, and we can start in a week. We'll give a week for promoting the tournament!
In reply to Vip.rus
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Vip.rus
At the moment, I think the following option is the best.

Stage 1: Swiss-system tournament with 4 rounds per week. Might and Magic factions play against each other, with the first round being random, and subsequent pairings determined randomly based on the number of points, without repetition. After 4 rounds, in case of a tie in points, the winner is the one who defeated stronger opponents, with a coefficient as in the previous tournament. If this is not enough, additional games are played. We select the top 8.
Stage 2: Playoffs. 1 from Might and Magic against 8 from the Hive, and immediately create a bracket up to the final. It doesn't matter which faction wins; afterwards, everyone plays according to the bracket, with Magic factions playing against Magic factions and Might factions playing against Might factions if that's how it turns out. And even if the top spots end up being dominated by one group, for example, the top 4 spots are taken by Magic factions.

And most importantly, in my opinion! With this scheme, there are 8 rounds, 4 in the group stage, and 4 in the playoffs. Each participant should play 1 game with each faction in each stage. The factions are determined before the game by a judge, assistants, or a trusted person. In principle, you can create a list before the tournament for each participant, specifying the 8 rounds and the distribution of factions per round! This would reduce the workload, in my opinion. We can vote on this.

The goal of the group stage is to have fun. The goal of the playoffs is to identify the strongest player and the strongest group of factions.

It's simple, and we can start in a week, giving a week for promoting the tournament!

Great option, I like it :)
In reply to Vip.rus
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Vip.rus

Stage 1: Swiss-system tournament with 4 rounds per week. Might and Magic factions compete against each other; the first round is random, and subsequent pairings are determined randomly based on the number of points, without repetition. After 4 rounds, in case of a tie in points, the winner is the one who defeated stronger opponents, with a coefficient as in the previous tournament. If this is not enough, additional games will be played. We select the top 8.
Currently, there are only 10 players in each group. Even if there are 12, selecting the top 8 is too many; the point of a single round of playoffs is lost because the best player from one group might face the 8th from another... In my opinion, it would be better to have slightly more rounds in the groups (5-6) to allow players to gain more experience, and in the playoffs, selecting the top 4 would be sufficient; at least, they would be opponents of roughly equal strength.

Regarding faction selection in the group stage
I think players should declare their chosen faction to the judges before each game. A faction can be played no more than 2 times in a group, and it will be forbidden to play 2 games in a row with the same faction. Those who play all factions in the group can receive a bonus of 1-3 points. I think this option would be more interesting and less predictable. The tournament table can display a list of factions available to the player for each round.
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
In reply to Adv
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With this many participants, you could basically start with the playoffs right away. My version is good because it allows everyone to play with each race equally and have fun with all of them. Otherwise, the Mages have Necropolis, which is already overpowered, and I don't want there to be too many of them. P.S. Let the players express their opinions on the format; I like mine, but ultimately the choice is up to the judge, and my version also allows us to maintain some intrigue until the end and avoid a negative atmosphere.
In reply to Vip.rus
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Vip.rus
With so many participants, you could basically start with the playoffs. My option is good because it allows everyone to play each race equally and have fun. Otherwise, the mages have Necropolis, which is still overpowered, and I don't want there to be too many of them.

P.S. Let the players express their opinion on the format; I like mine, but in the end, the choice is up to the judge. Also, my option allows for a more or less intriguing competition until the end and avoids a feeling of defeat.

What's good about the fact that a person MUST play with all races if, for example, they don't like one race and absolutely don't want to play with it? In my opinion, a person should have the opportunity to choose. However, if a person is good at playing and likes to play with all races, and accordingly has played with all their races from the pool, it seems quite fair to give them some kind of bonus for this: either additional points, or to take this factor into account when the scores are equal, or some other perks. Therefore, in my opinion, the race pool should be updated after the group stage. And introducing some kind of restrictions on playing with one race also seems quite fair and reasonable.

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