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Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.
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Nargott
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Why not? They fit the Barbarians much better than the Dungeon. In the Dungeon, they are completely useless. The Barbarians' strength lies in their meat rush, building up rage, and then applying pressure.
The Barbarians already have plenty of similar units. The Wyvern actually provides diversity (which you criticized the Furies for lacking). Orcs are small (compared to Cyclops and Executioners) shock troops. Minotaurs are small shock troops of the same rank. Why the repetition?
What prevents simply swapping the textures without changing the abilities? In my opinion, Death with a scythe is worthy of level 7. And put the Knights in their place – their models already exist, all three of them. You could even barely change the abilities and stats – just swap the textures. Visually, it would look more complete. They are all the same size. Except for the flying dragons, but you could give the Messengers a slight speed boost, and that would balance it out.
Messengers are already top-tier units for the Undead, on par with Necrodrakes. And regarding "swapping textures" – these abilities don't suit the other visuals. Dragon perks (flight, incorporeality, protection from arrows, etc.) were specifically written for dragons.
But no one liked dragons even before. It's unlikely anyone will mourn them. And there are already too many dragons – almost every other faction has them.
Maybe in the original. In WGE, these are completely different dragons. They have become a distinct, special, and unpleasant unit for the enemy, with very colorful abilities for the Undead. I can't imagine anything else in their place.
Rakshasas are not in the same category. They have no connection to the Heroes game universes at all. It's like adding Baba Yaga or a Leshy.
It's a matter of taste. Mythological characters? Yes. In this regard, they are no worse than Nagas.
They are well-drawn, in my opinion. And the Phoenix is quite pleasant. Regarding the lack of originality, it's debatable. You are creating your own balance – you can give them their own exclusive features. Summoning elementals as reinforcements, preventing the enemy from summoning elementals, resistance to elemental magic, the absence of light and dark magic – there are many things you can come up with. If balanced correctly, it will be a very unique Castle. Someone even found a Heaven-like Castle with a free ID.
I fundamentally dislike Castles that are made up of: an elemental of this, an elemental of that, an elemental of this, and an elemental of that. They are lifeless and unreal (as factions). Therefore, there will be no Conflux analogue in WGE, even if such an opportunity existed (a reasonable one, and not one that involves reworking the Academy and discarding a full-fledged faction).
The same Conflux appeared in Heroes 3 only because fans rebelled against the Forge faction, and the developers hastily created an elemental faction. I never considered it a full-fledged faction.
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No, there won't be those perks. Blood Wrath is already a very powerful skill in the original game, and in WGE, it will likely need to be limited (weakened).
Maybe, I haven't played with them much. However, in a siege, they won't be very comfortable in that case, whether on one side of the fence or the other.
Nargott
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I'm talking more about the appearance than about the specific abilities and roles in combat. Variety increases interest—it's much more enjoyable to play with completely different units than with the same ones, just with different colors.
That's what I mean about appearance. Cyclops remind me a lot of monsters.
I meant not the total number, but the number of skills a hero has learned at the start. Maybe I misunderstood what was written in the concept. I was talking about the "if you don't want it, don't take it" approach. It's quite annoying sometimes that the hero you need initially has skills that are not useful for your tactics, but there is not enough space for what is very desirable.
And what problems are there? If you don't like one hero, buy another with a different starting build and a different tactic. This approach provides more variety than the "create your hero from scratch" method, as it forces the player to adapt to the available heroes, rather than spamming the same builds from game to game.
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That's exactly what I mean about the variety. Cyclops really remind me of monsters.
And if you don't like one hero, you can buy another with a different starting build and a different tactic. This approach provides more variety than the "create your hero from scratch" method, as it forces the player to adapt to the available heroes, rather than spamming the same builds from game to game.
Well, if I'm building my tactics around a specific type of unit, I need a hero with bonuses for that unit. And if that hero already has a skill that might be completely useless to me, then I also lose a valuable slot for something useful. After all, there are only three branches. Warrior, Mage, and Scout – the first two are combat-oriented, the third is logistics and scouting. If I decide to invent some super-original tactic with an emphasis on a specific unit and one of the two combat directions, then the lack of a slot can be very annoying. That is, essentially the build remains the same, but you lose something useful and gain something unnecessary. So, as a rule, it's just a minus slot and a limitation on the variety of tactical decisions.
Nargott
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Well, if I'm building my tactics around a specific unit type, I need a hero with bonuses for that unit. And if that hero already has a skill that might be completely useless to me, then I'm also losing a valuable slot for something useful. After all, there are only three branches. Warrior, Mage, and Scout – the first two are combat-oriented, and the third is for logistics and scouting. If I decide to devise some super-original tactic focusing on a specific unit and one of the two combat paths, then the lack of a slot can be very annoying.
All 3 hero classes are purely combat-oriented. If you're building a tactic around a particular unit, a specialist in that unit isn't necessary, and against a smart opponent, it's even undesirable due to predictability. Because in Heroes, every unit has a counter.
As for useless perks, that's just subjective. There won't be objectively useless perks. Let's say you don't like Intelligence, but you need a specialist – what's so bad about that? The benefit is balanced by the cost (these subjectively unnecessary perks), which is what makes it more interesting than a hero who is unambiguously good with no possible alternatives. Plus, it's harder to force yourself to use unnecessary perks than necessary ones – and that's a tactical advantage.
Furthermore, many specializations in Heroes 5 are unbalanced, and heroes will be balanced by different starting upgrades and stronger or weaker perks.
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Heralds in Warlords of the Ancient Races (WOTAR) and even in the base game are already top-tier units for the Undead, on par with Necrodrakes. As for "changing the textures" – these abilities don't suit another visual style. Dragon perks (flight, incorporeality, protection from arrows, etc.) were specifically designed for dragons. Maybe in the original game. But in WOTAR, these are completely different dragons. They've become a well-defined, unique, and unpleasant unit for the enemy, with very distinctive abilities for the Undead. I can't imagine anything else in their place.
It might still be unfinished, but with what I have, Heralds are in sixth place. Death Knights seem more suitable for that position in my opinion. You're changing perks as you see fit, claiming they don't fit. While playing, I've seen many abilities taken from completely obscure units – like the "Fire Trap" ability on Zombies. Is it really that problematic to change the textures? It's not even necessary to make Heralds flying; you could just add a few extra movement points, for example. And dragons are dragons, no matter what. They've become stale after so much time in gaming – they're shoved into every game possible. In general, the most logical thing would be to move them all to the neutral faction and significantly strengthen them. So that they inspire terror in small numbers, like the Azure Dragons in the third game, instead of dying with half a hit and flying in flocks of 20-100.
Added 3 minutes later Nargott
All 3 hero classes are purely combat-oriented. If you're building a strategy around a specific unit, a specialist for that unit isn't necessary, and against a smart opponent, it's even undesirable, due to its predictability.
As for useless perks, that's subjective. There won't be objectively useless perks. Let's say you don't like Intelligence, but you need a specialist – what's so bad about that? The benefit is balanced by the cost (these subjectively unnecessary perks), which is what makes it more interesting than a hero who is unambiguously good with no possible alternatives. Plus, it's harder to force yourself to use unwanted perks than wanted ones – and that's a tactical advantage.
Furthermore, many specializations in Might and Magic V are unbalanced, and that's why heroes will be balanced by different skill builds and stronger or weaker perks.
It's difficult to discuss this now. You at least have an idea of how everything will be, but I have no idea. With what I have, all the perks are original, as are the heroes themselves. It would be helpful to see lists of the proposed changes with detailed descriptions of everything.
Nargott
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The fact is that I have all the original perks, just like the heroes themselves. It would be great to see a list of proposed changes with detailed descriptions of everything.
It's logical because the mod only has a working version of the duel part (creatures, magic).
Maybe it's not finished yet, but with what I have, the Harbingers are on the sixth level. Death Knights, in my opinion, would fit there better.
They are formally on level 6, but in terms of strength, they are equal to Necrodrakes. As for the cost of buildings, it hasn't been touched yet, but that doesn't mean it will stay that way.
I myself really liked the Death Knights in Might and Magic III, but in Heroes of Might and Magic V (only after the modification), I liked the Harbingers and Necrodrakes even more.
You change the perks as you see fit, even if they don't fit. While playing, I've seen many abilities taken from completely unclear units – like the "Fire Trap" ability on Zombies. Isn't it too difficult to just swap the textures? It's not even necessary to make the Harbingers flying – just add a cage or two to their movement, for example.
I change the perks based on tactical considerations. Zombies without the "Devour Corpses" ability are much more boring and have less diverse applications. But even the "Devour Corpses" ability is secondary for them, while for Vultures, it's a primary feature (which plays a much stronger role).
Changing the units is not a problem. But in the area of already made changes (in particular, the implementation of units), I am conservative. Because it's done, it works, and it works very well. The suggestion about the Death Knights came too late; it should have been made and justified at the beginning of the mod, when the core was not yet formed. Instead, I went a different way – I made what exists work, without making changes to the army composition.
That is, I can consider suggestions to change the abilities of certain units or even make simple changes to the visuals, such as recoloring, adding special effects, or changing weapons. But the suggestion to completely remove certain units and replace them with others is too much, it's too late for such radical suggestions.
Harbingers (damage dealers) and Dragons (debuffers-tanks) already work well together as a team; Death Knights can conceptually only replace the Harbingers (I don't see them as debuffers-tanks, that contradicts their essence). But the Grim Reaper looks no less impressive (it's a matter of taste) and is more original than a dead copy of a human knight. Their problem in Heroes of Might and Magic V was weak perks and tactical insignificance compared to Death Knights, which has been fixed.
Try playing a few games as the Undead in Heroes of Might and Magic V duels and get the hang of it – then these questions will disappear, and my objections will become clear.
Added 3 minutes ago
And dragons are dragons everywhere. They've become tiresome after so much time in gaming – they're shoved into every game possible. In general, the most logical thing is to move them all to the neutrals and significantly strengthen them. So that they cause terror in single numbers, like the Azure Dragons in Might and Magic III, and not die with half a hit and fly in flocks of 20-100.
I agree that there are too many dragons in terms of visuals. But in terms of tactical features, these units are now quite complete, colorful, and self-sufficient. No high-level units will fly in flocks of 20-100 in Heroes of Might and Magic V; to assess the approximate size of the armies, launch the duels. As for survivability, in Heroes of Might and Magic V, the Necrodrake, due to its perks, is almost as durable as a living dragon 1 on 1, and the increase is twice as high.
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That is, I can consider suggestions to change the abilities of certain units or even make simple visual changes, such as recoloring, adding special effects, or changing weapons. But suggesting to completely remove certain units and replace them with others is too much, it's too late for such radical suggestions.
Well, I'm essentially suggesting a recolor. Leave all abilities and stats in place, but replace the dragons with messengers, and the messengers with knights. There's no need to repaint anything – just swap them. If zombies are given the abilities of other units, what's the problem with giving messengers the abilities of dragons, and knights the abilities of messengers? Although there's already a mod for knights – just add it and update the stats. And let dragons guard various crypts and dungeons – that's where they belong.
Added 6 minutes later Nargott
Messengers (damage dealers) and dragons (debuffers-tanks) already work well as a "team"; knights can conceptually only replace messengers (I don't see them in the role of debuffers-tanks, as that contradicts their essence). But Death with a scythe looks no less impressive (it's a matter of taste) and is more original than a dead copy of a human knight. Their problem in Heroes 5 was weak perks and tactical insignificance compared to death knights, which was fixed.
Try playing a few games as undead in Heroes of Might and Magic duels and get the hang of it – then these questions will disappear, and my objections will become clear.
I'm not against messengers. Messengers and knights are great – much better than the overused bone lizards. It's a breath of fresh air.
I'm not suggesting changing skills and stats at different levels. Just replace messengers with knights, and send messengers to take the place of dragons. Give the current abilities and stats of messengers to knights, and the abilities of dragons to messengers. Tactically, nothing will change – just a change in appearance. And if it's completely impossible to give messengers flight, then you can add a couple of squares to their movement range as compensation.
And I have played as undead – it's great. But the absence of dark paladins is still disappointing. They were one of the most memorable units.
Nargott
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Well, essentially, I'm suggesting a recoloring and a swap. Keep all abilities and stats the same, but replace Dragons with Messengers, and Messengers with Knights. There's no need to even repaint anything – just swap them. If Zombies are getting abilities from other units, what's the problem with giving Messengers the abilities of Dragons, and Knights the abilities of Messengers? Although, there's already a mod for Knights – just include it and update the stats. And Dragons can guard various crypts and dungeons – that's where they belong.
In my opinion, this is unnatural. With such impressive braids, to turn them from damage dealers into debuffers with very low damage? And to force-fit incorporeality (one of their main features)? Plus, Knights simply don't have a separate animation for activated abilities, like the Messenger branch, since the entire Messenger branch consists of units that use activated abilities. Therefore, such a swap would lead to a reduction in animation variety.
Once again, I'm not against such a swap in principle, but not in this mod, where the units are already well-established in their roles, both in terms of features and atmosphere. It's just that a newcomer might not understand this established order, especially if they have little experience with battles in Heroes of Might and Magic. But it exists nonetheless. Therefore, I advise playing for a few months with what's already available, and then suggesting radical changes.
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In my opinion, it feels unnatural to transform such powerful units with impressive abilities into debuffers with very low damage. And to force-fit incorporeality (one of their main features)? Plus, the Knights simply don't have a separate animation for activated abilities, like the Herald branch, since the entire Herald branch consists of activators. Therefore, such a rearrangement leads to a reduction in animation variety.
I understand. But it's still a shame. I would have swapped anything for the Knights, even at the expense of balance. Even the Liches would have been a good choice. The Necropolis faction really needs more Knights.
I'm not against the current balance. Although it's still too early to judge, as much will depend on the hero-specific features and many other nuances that are currently missing. But in some factions, certain creatures simply feel out of place. It just doesn't feel right without them.
Nargott
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I understand. But it's still a shame. I would have preferred anything over removing the Knights, even if it meant sacrificing balance. Even replacing them with Liches would have been better. The Necropolis faction really needs Knights; they are sorely lacking.
You're judging based on the G5 version, not the G5 WGE version. In the original game, at level 6, the Necropolis's decorative units were essentially useless, lacking significant abilities or any distinguishing features. At level 7, they were even worse, offering very little for their high cost. That's why I also had a negative opinion of both of these units and complained about why the developers removed the Knights.
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You're judging from the perspective of Heroes 5, not Heroes 5: Armageddon's Blade. And in the original game, yes, at level 6, the Necropolis has decorative units with no significant abilities or distinctive features, and at level 7, it's just laughable for the huge cost. That's why my attitude towards both of these units was also negative, and I also complained about why the developers removed the Knights.
I'll play around and see. But judging by everything, I won't see the classic version anytime soon. That's bad. You need more people.
Nargott
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You should have more people here.
More people are never a bad thing. However, you need to understand that this forum is not the only one, and it only represents a very small fraction of the discussions about the mod, so the audience is not that small.
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Is it possible to integrate third-party mods so that they are available globally?
m30_rus_nosounds.h5u - removes the annoying slider sounds.
m30_rus_mapsize.h5u - displays the map size in Roman numerals, like in Heroes of Might and Magic III.
m30_rus_nomove.h5u - removes the "the hero won't go anywhere" message at the end of the turn.
m30_rus_neutralcounts.h5u - displays the number of neutral creatures, like in Heroes of Might and Magic III.
ArtDescription301.h5u - provides detailed descriptions of all artifacts.
geltii_krug_big.h5u - highlights the unit whose turn it is in battle with a yellow circle.
There are also a couple of other useful mods, slightly less relevant:
m30_rus_heroesspec.h5u / HeroInfo3.02.h5u - provides a description of the hero's special ability when selecting him in the map settings (although you'll have to edit the descriptions, it's still useful) - the first one is a brief description, the second one provides detailed information, including a biography.
NewArenas.h5u - supposedly adds a couple of new battle arenas.
m30_rus_townspec.h5u - provides a more accurate description of the features of each town.
These are nice and useful mods. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be included. I think their creators wouldn't mind, and the hassle of installing each mod separately is much greater, and they can sometimes conflict.
There are also a couple of other useful mods.
I also noticed that for some units, when you right-click on them on the map, the names can extend slightly beyond the frame. So far, I've only noticed this with a certain type of gremlin.
Regarding tactical realism, it's unclear how the wyverns are resurrected. The skeletons gathering around bones and the zombies rising from parts are easy to understand. However, how a living creature can be resurrected by eating someone is unknown. I also felt that the poisonous wyvern is somewhat weaker than the other two in terms of abilities.
Nargott
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It's unclear how a living creature can resurrect by eating someone. Also, it seems that the poisonous wyvern is somewhat weaker than the other two in terms of abilities.
It's very simple if you consider that the killed are just mortally wounded and incapacitated (taken out of action). Wyverns eat, wounds heal, and combat ability returns.
Also, it seems that the poisonous wyvern is somewhat weaker than the other two in terms of abilities.
Poisonous wyverns (winged creatures) have a very strong poison, but to maximize its effect, you need to try to bite units with high defense. However, in terms of resurrection abilities, they are indeed more convenient.
Added 3 minutes later Regarding mod names, links to download them are needed.
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