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Posts from What kind of magic do you like the most?
Exactly, the so-called "neutral school" includes everything that is not related to chaos, summoning, or darkness, so it is incorrect to consider it magic.
It's already been figured out: MAGIC_SCHOOL_SPECIAL, it exists in the xdb files of some spells. Any player can use almost all spells from this school. It has no tactical disadvantages, unlike the other schools.
Don't get too carried away with magic schools. Of course, chaos is useful for a Warlock at the beginning, but spending two slots on magic can be dangerous. I would level up a secondary hero with chaos, or something like that...
Why... If a hero has huge spell power and knowledge, why not allocate two slots, one for light or darkness, and another for summoning or chaos.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
Okay, let's take a Necromancer as an example.
It's definitely necessary to choose one of the magic schools. Definitely prioritize education. If Logistics becomes available, definitely take it. Next: it's highly desirable to enhance your attacks; it will work well considering the Necromancer's fairly high average damage and the elemental skill. If Logistics doesn't appear, you should at least take Luck for the same reason as Attack (plus, when developing towards Chaos, you get a "lucky mage"). One slot remains. You can take a very useful spell that will allow you to cast spells much more often and reduce mana problems, or a second school. Which, in general, isn't entirely irreplaceable compared to the first: it turns out that you still use spells from one school more often, and the others are "secondary." If we want to take both schools and the spell, we have to give up Luck or even Logistics! And no matter how strong our mage is, his troops play a far from insignificant role in battle, and movement speed on the map is even more important, because you need to develop faster than the enemy... No, you can take two magic schools, but it will inevitably be detrimental to something, while with one school, you can manage without any particular problems.
Since we're on the topic... The races whose heroes gain a lot of magic and knowledge are Mages, Demons, Necromancers, Warlocks, and Dwarves. Now, let's go through them one by one:
For Mages: Logistics, Education, and Spell Power are essential. Luck, Leadership, Defense, and Attack can all be obtained through artifacts, both crafted in the forge and purchased in the shop. Machines are not very useful for Mages. Mages definitely need Summoning. It's very helpful to take Darkness or Light to support their weak troops or weaken enemies.
Demons only need Logistics. The rest is up to your preference. Chaos and Darkness would also be very useful. They have plenty of mana, and Hellfire doesn't consume much, especially with Imps.
Necropolis cannot do without Darkness and Summoning. I won't say anything about Darkness, but Summoning is a good substitute for Chaos. This includes raising the dead, creating a phantom, and causing an earthquake. They don't have much mana, but this can be compensated for with Education and Spell Power. Luck, Leadership, and Machines are useless. For the rest, choose Logistics, Defense, or Attack.
You've already described Warlocks.
And Dwarves. For Dwarves, only Darkness is useless. Summoning is needed for their ultimate ability, although it's not absolutely necessary in this case. Chaos is the only destructive form of magic for Dwarves; they are masters at it, and it's also required for their ultimate ability. Light is also very useful, especially if they have a set of Dwarven artifacts. The rest is up to your preference.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
In online games, such long durations are not typical. Unless it's by agreement...
Which happens quite often, but the forum is full of threads like "help me defeat a gnome on a very large map" and so on. And in the early stages, summoning doesn't really help much – either magic is underdeveloped, or the hero's level is too low, with all the consequences. Perhaps, if you focus on developing only one summoning skill, but then there are other nuances... But the fact remains: the longer the game and the larger the armies, the less effective summoning becomes, and the same goes for Chaos.Ment
So, the only drawback is number 2.
If so, then number 3 is also a drawback.Ment
It's not very effective against Wizards. Titans, stools, golems – no mind control spells. Genies have resistance. The hero has a magic mirror.
Stools and golems are not the main strength of wizards; genies die quickly. Vampirism on your own units, blindness on titans, control/berserk on rakshasas, and then hit the rest with weaken, slow, vulnerability, and debuff – and you're golden! :smile03: The magic mirror is certainly a problem, but firstly, if it reflects a spell, it will reflect it on your own units in half the cases, unless you're Jalib, of course; and secondly, it won't reflect area-of-effect spells.Ment
It's not very effective against elves. Elves often develop Light magic and counter it, plus unicorns with aura, plus they can take "magic resistance," and luck is almost always taken.
Magic resistance is random; you can't rely on it too much. Of course, they can counter area-of-effect spells, but almost always, the necromancer will cast spells more often, and even if control/berserk is cast, it can decide the outcome of the battle.Ment
So, the downsides are much simpler here.
Well, two half-downsides against two)))Ment
Don't get too carried away with schools of magic. Of course, Chaos is useful for a Warlock in the early stages, but spending two skill slots on magic can be dangerous. I would develop a secondary hero with Chaos magic...
In my opinion, two schools of magic are just right for mage heroes, and I wouldn't risk developing only one summoning skill for a Warlock.
Added 9 minutes ago His Most Reverend Eminence
They've already figured it out: MAGIC_SCHOOL_SPECIAL, it exists in the xdb files of some spells. Any player can use almost all spells from this school. It has no tactical drawbacks, unlike other schools.
They've figured it out, but how do you develop it? I don't see any skills or abilities for neutral magic. Darkness, light, chaos, and summoning have a clearly defined form, while neutral magic can simultaneously include a lot and very little; it's something amorphous, so it's not quite appropriate to compare it.
Added 10 minutes ago Ment
No, you can take two schools of magic, but it will inevitably be to the detriment of something, while with one school, you can live without any particular problems.
If you take two schools of magic, you can develop a Warlock like this: 2 schools of magic, education, spell power – definitely, then you can take attack or logistics, depending on the circumstances. Everything you take and don't take will be to the detriment of something) even logistics is completely unnecessary for combat.
They did the calculations, but how do you level it up? I don't see any skills or abilities for neutral magic. Darkness, light, chaos, and summoning have a clearly defined structure, while neutral magic can encompass both a lot and very little at the same time; it's something amorphous, so it's not entirely appropriate to compare it.
But it does exist. And if you compare it to the other schools, it looks more powerful.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
There are no levels 1-4, but there is level 0 and level 5. Level 0 is, for example, a prayer. Level 5 is Hellwave.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
I prefer to call prayer a "Knight's special ability," so perhaps our disagreement is just about the terminology. But the fact that "neutral magic" lacks any system makes it impossible to compare it with the clearly defined Chaos, Darkness, Summoning, and Light.
But the fact that "neutral magic" lacks any system makes it impossible to compare it with clearly defined Chaos, Darkness, Summoning, and Light.
Really? Are we not allowed to compare a system with a lack of system? And what are we afraid of? Let's compare them. Don't lie and don't be afraid... Besides this school, there are the school of shouts, the school of spells cast on the map, and the rune school. They are also magical; let's compare them too. What's wrong with that? The rune and shout schools have a clear system.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
there's a school of shouts, a school of spells on the map, a rune school. They are also magical, so let's compare them as well. What's wrong with that? The rune and shout schools have a clear system.
So, you also attribute them to a neutral school? Runic magic is a characteristic of the dwarf race, so it would be more appropriate to compare it with Knight's Preparation, Necromancy of the Necromancer, Irresistible Magic of the Warlock, etc. And if you compare it with the 4 schools of magic, then you can compare all other special abilities and the entire skill wheel. The shout school is not magical at all (if "shout school" refers to the battle cries of orcs), because one of the main characteristics of orcs is their complete inability to use magic.
So, do you also attribute them to the neutral school?
No, these schools exist separately.
Runic magic is a characteristic of the dwarf race, so it is more appropriate to compare it with Knight Training, Necromancy of the Necromancer, Irresistible Magic of the Warlock, etc. And if you compare it with the 4 schools of magic, then you can compare all other special abilities and the entire skill wheel.
Runic magic is a separate school, and Training, Necromancy, Irresistible Magic, etc. are all neutral schools (or, in other words, "special").
The Shaman school is not magical at all (if "Shaman school" refers to the battle cries of orcs), because one of the main characteristics of orcs is their complete inability to use magic.
How can they not know? What about shamans? What about goblin sorcerers? What about the "Wrath of the Horde" spell? This is, of course, not standard magic, but it is still specific. Besides, an orc hero can cast spells on the map.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
and preparation, necromancy, irresistible magic, etc. - all of this is a neutral school (or, in other words, a "special" school).
I don't know about others, but I can't bring myself to call Knight's Preparation "magic" (there's nothing magical about it), whether it's "special," "neutral," or some other kind of "magic."His Eminence
How can they not? What about shamans? What about goblin warlocks? What about the "Wrath of the Horde" spell? This is, of course, not standard magic, but it is still specific. Besides, an orc hero can cast spells on the map.
In the official description of the second expansion, it says that orcs do not possess magic. That's exactly it, it's not standard magic, and in fact, it's not magic at all. I repeat, it's a racial trait. In the same way, you could call the entire skill tree "specific magic" because it is closely intertwined with racial skills.
I don't know about others, but I can't bring myself to call Knight Training "magic" (there's nothing magical about it), whether it's "special," "neutral," or some other kind of "magic."
Prayer, for example, is magic. Even though it feels wrong, the developers labeled these schools as magical.
The official description of the second expansion pack states that Orcs do not possess magic.
Exactly, it's not standard magic, or even magic at all. I repeat, it's a racial trait. Following this logic, you could call the entire skill tree "specific magic" because it's closely intertwined with racial skills. These questions are not for me, but for the developers, creators, and publishers... Why can a Shaman cast Haste? Moreover, the Daughter of the Sky casts Chain Lightning! And yet, the abilities of the Shaman, Daughter of the Sky, and Daughter of the Earth are labeled as "Spellcaster." There is mana for spellcasting. And the Orc hero has mana for spellcasting. And the Orc hero casts Astral Gate just like any other hero. Orcs do not possess the full range of standard magic. Only a very small part. But they can still cast spells. And their school is specific – the magical school of war cries (MAGIC_SCHOOL_WARCRY).
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
I quote the description of prayer from the primary source – the game: "The Knight gains a special combat skill..." and so on. That is, Prayer is not only not called magic, but its non-magical nature is emphasized (combat). His Eminence
Although it's hard to say, the developers called these schools magical.
The developers called them (Preparation, Rune Magic, Orcish Battle Cry, etc.) unique racial abilities; you can read about it here forum.heroesworld.ru//topic/2859/ It is also clear from here that orcs do not use magic in their battle cry and rely only on their voice (see question #10)
I quote the description of the prayer from the main source – the game: "The Knight gains a special combat skill..." and so on. That is, Prayer is not only not called magic, but its non-magical (combat) nature is emphasized.
There is combat magic, but isn't it magic?
The developers called them (Preparation, Rune Magic, Orcish Warcries, etc.) unique racial abilities; you can read about it here forum.heroesworld.ru//topic/2859/ It is also clear from here that orcs do not use magic in their warcry and rely only on their voice (see question #10).
But magic is at the core of these unique racial abilities.
It is also clear from here that orcs do not use magic in their warcry and rely only on their voice (see question #10).
Perhaps in the cry. But why do orcs spend mana on them then? And "orcish rage" doesn't really look like a non-magical ability. Orcs do not use standard magic (Light, Chaos, Darkness, Summoning), but they use their own and card magic.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить. Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
