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Perhaps Anton is the best offline player among those you know. I suspect that during the time of the first Heroes games, he was still crawling under the table, not dominating, while we were winning very decent money for student times. This is what I mean about experience and so on.
I want to say that the length of time playing Heroes has nothing to do with the objective strength of the game. I've been playing Heroes since 2001, but I learned to play 4 years ago here on this site. And even then, it's just average (I'm talking about online).
But subjectively, you can think that your game is divine. Playing with friends somewhere on Hotseat, or just with the computer. (Without seeing the results of real serious players).
Therefore, there is absolutely no difference: whether you have been playing for 20 years somewhere at home, starting with King's Bounty, or for 2-3 years. This is a very common misconception.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/ За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
Marmot
14 years ago
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Interesting continuation of the discussion on НР. It's a pity that it's not possible (I couldn't) to provide a link to a specific post, but here is a link to this page, after the words of JesusC, who almost reads my mind (except that my desire to play hasn't disappeared):
This Tournament had an unexpected effect on me. I no longer want to play Heroes of Might and Magic 3. The game has lost its charm; it's as if it has been violated. Previously, it seemed normal to find an AI bug and take advantage of it. But when all progress turns into exploiting loopholes, these loopholes overshadow the game itself. Don't you feel...(I don't know how to express it)... isn't it offensive that Deemer dies pathetically behind a wall, even though he could have taken out his enemy in one turn? It's a pity that the developers ceased to exist and didn't patch what needed to be patched.
and there is an interesting development of the topic about the game's artificial intelligence: What would happen if it were full-fledged? AmberSoler:
Currently, the VCMI project is successfully being developed, where the AI is being rewritten from scratch. Offline Tournaments are a competition against the existing AI, because there is nothing else yet. I am sure that if, in this Tournament, the moves for the computer opponent were made, say, by Sir Antoshka, it would be completely impossible to complete this map... You start, and the purple faction jumps to Deesse and takes her out on the third day (I would do the same if I were playing as the bot) - game over... A nightmare come true...
:smile24: And, by the way: NikTheOne:
a speedrun of the map deprives you of the opportunity to see more than half of the author's ideas. Although, of course, they may only be interesting to people who are far from offline play.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було… (Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
For some, it has lost its charm, but for others, it has gained it. I used to play through campaigns, going back and forth with a single hero... but that gets boring. Competition with other players never gets boring because the competition forces you to look for and come up with new ideas.
Speedrunning a map deprives you of the opportunity to see more than half of the author's ideas. Although, of course, they may only be interesting to people who are not familiar with offline play.
But it depends on who the author is and what the map is like. In this map, it seems to me, many ideas have been successfully conveyed.
Marmot
14 years ago
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To illustrate my point, let me offer this comparison. Once, I read a good article that explained how, throughout history, people in sports have competed to be "faster, higher, stronger." Various championships and the Olympics have long identified the best results, and currently, sports have almost reached the limits of human physical capabilities. Therefore, improving previous records now, unfortunately, is achieved only through the use of various drugs, as long as they are not yet called doping and are not prohibited. And today, those competing are not athletes, but... chemists, creating new miracle drugs. The same thing has happened with "Heroes of Might and Magic": in 12 years, all the main possible tactics for playing with different factions have long been identified, and now the game in offline mode is focused on finding new ways to "fool" the AI, which can be used to complete a map even faster than before. And so, of course, you can rush through the entire map with a dozen small fairies in a week!
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було… (Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
iceTiTaN
14 years ago
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Many maps are simply designed for regular players.
If you create a map for offline players, regular players won't be able to complete it.
Because the battles against the AI will require strategic thinking, rather than just relying on auto-battle. You can design a battle so that if you don't position your units correctly, you simply won't win.
But creating such a map is very difficult.
When I have time, I'll start working on creating such a map.
So, of course, you can rush through the entire map with a dozen small fairies in a week!
It's clear that you're not entirely familiar with the topic. Completing a map isn't just about the AI; it also involves many nuances related to turn management, hero selection, resource conservation, and more.
The fact that Deemer showed inadequate behavior in this tournament doesn't mean that the battle couldn't be won if he had played differently. Deemer is the same for everyone, and anyone can achieve such a result. The main thing is to carefully plan the entire playthrough.
I can upload my battle with Deemer. There, he doesn't sit in the castle but goes on the attack!
Many maps are designed for ordinary players. If you create a map for offline players, ordinary players won't be able to complete it. Because the battles against the AI will require you to think strategically, not just use auto-battle. You can design a battle so that if you place a unit in the wrong spot, you simply won't win. But creating such a map is very difficult. When I have time, I'll start working on Mapmaking for such a map.
Very relevant! Many people complain that the maps are too easy for them and not interesting to play. Also, it's always good when a map with a unique author's concept appears, where you need not just kill everyone, but also figure out where and how to get everything you need to win, what to do in what order, and the battles themselves are very deeply thought out in a tactical sense and also contain "highlights."Dirty_Player
Completing a map is not only about the AI; it also involves many nuances related to turn management, hero selection, resource management, etc.
I agree! Simply "dumbing down" the AI in the example given is like doping in my comparison: it's not bugs or cheat codes; it's not prohibited, so it's exploited "to the fullest," and without it, it's already impossible to achieve record results.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було… (Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
I agree! The "stupidity" of the AI in the given example is like doping in my comparison: it's not a bug or a cheat code, it's not prohibited, so it's exploited "to the fullest extent," and without it, it's already impossible to achieve record results.
I believe that the comparison with doping is inappropriate. Doping can be compared to using programs like Oracle or Prospector. But knowing the algorithms of AI behavior is precisely part of the skill.
medstrax
14 years ago
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A question for Ksenia. On map 1-1-7, there are 23 angels. On map 1-2-1, there are 25. It's clear that one came from somewhere hidden, but where did the second one come from?
Question for Ksenia. On 1-1-7, there are 23 angels. On 1-2-1, there are 25; it's clear that one came from hiding, but where did the second one come from?
Judging by the save file, he was hiding in the gold mine :smile15:
medstrax
14 years ago
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Hmm, I don't see it. Please provide the coordinates of this mine.
Understood. Please explain the issue with the hydras that join on the shore. I reloaded the save, and 107 hydras joined, but in the save file, there are 108. What's the problem, and where is it?
I'll ask a very important question. Is the audit of the first week completed? Are there only two weeks left? If so, that's encouraging – because the last 10 days of the game involve a linear progression through the dungeon, where there simply won't be any issues, and all the complex battles have been thoroughly analyzed on HP, and players have already repeated them in several variations, confirming that everything is playable... It's reassuring, in a word...
Understood. Please explain regarding the hydras that join on the shore. I reloaded the save, and 107 hydras joined, but the save shows 108. What's the issue and where is it?
So, we already have one hydra before they join in the save – hydra 123 belongs to Sylvia. 1 + 107 = 108.
