Skip to content

Posts from Турниры HeroesWorld Cup & World Cup - 2012

3.7 (3 ratings)
In reply to Oelm
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Oelm
It seems to me that the controversial situation reached a dead end precisely because of the intervention of a "guru in retirement."
And where would it have gone without my intervention? And yes, why doesn't street magic work on Tinker's task?
Timeline:
It almost sounds like a compliment... I certainly didn't intend anything like that, but if it creates that impression, it means that the skills of manipulating public opinion are already working at a subconscious level.
Note how Vik's posts differ from all other players:
The rest put sincerity into their lines: you read them and immediately feel that the person cares about the discussion. And only one writes as if he is proving a mathematical theorem, coldly, dryly, and impassively. The logical content is excellent.
And? Is that a bad thing? On the contrary, that's exactly how controversial episodes should be analyzed.

Let me remind you that in jurisprudence in general and in judging in particular, logic is primary, and ethics are only involved where logical analysis shows the existence of several legitimate options, between which a choice must be made.

If a judge makes a decision based on arguments like "he's a cool guy," then what's the point of having such a judge?
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Vik, your posts don't carry any meaningful content. Am I the only one who notices this? What was the point of your last post? Are we going to figure out what to do with the Chinese player or who he is...?
ICQ 335-665-133
Discord Sevensan#3379
In reply to Wicc
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Wicc


Let me remind you that in jurisprudence in general, and in judging in particular, logic is primary, and ethics are only involved where logical analysis shows the existence of several legitimate options, between which a choice must be made.

I am not a lawyer, of course, but I am sure that in legal proceedings, the evidentiary basis is primary, and not logic at all.
In reply to iDD
User Avatar
Auto-translated
iDD
I'm certainly not a lawyer, but I'm sure that in legal proceedings, the evidentiary basis comes first, not logic.
How is the evidentiary basis analyzed? It is analyzed using logic.
In reply to Pit for LM
Auto-translated
A question from the audience: why wasn't the Chinese player banned for losing credibility? As I understand it, Rebellius has had a reputation as a strong and fair player for many years (and he was banned suddenly), while his cross-eyed colleague's every game (that was watched on HW) raises a lot of stupid questions. What is the point of having such a participant?
Лучше дорого молчать, чем дешево говорить.
In reply to Sevensan
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Sevensan
Vik, your posts don't carry any meaningful content. Am I the only one who notices this? What was the point of your last post?
Replied to Oelmu, naturally...
In reply to Wicc
Auto-translated
Wicc
How is the evidence base analyzed? It is analyzed using logic.
As a person forced to study law, I must state that the evidence base is based on facts. And logic can work differently for everyone, including judges. We have really seen this here. It's just that facts can be interpreted very freely, and they are usually analyzed in laboratories!
In reply to Master_A
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Here, Vic talks about the method of analysis. He states that facts (which are the evidence base) should be analyzed not based on emotions (an ethical method), which is what Oelm accused him of lacking, but using a logical method.
Oelm

It's as if he's proving a mathematical theorem, coldly, dryly, and impassively. The logical content is excellent. But there is absolutely no ethical side to it.

And as a person directly involved in practical jurisprudence, I can confidently state that a professional court will side with the one who presents the case clearly and concisely, like a mathematical theorem, rather than with emotional "water carriers," whom we are often shown in foreign films, usually with the intention of influencing the audience and the jury.

Everyone has their own style, and that's why we have a forum where everyone's opinion is needed, and everyone's opinion is important :)
It's a pity that the discussion has turned into an off-topic conversation. :(
In reply to Neoandy
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Neoandy
Here, Vic is talking about the method of analysis. He says that facts (which are the evidence base) should be analyzed not based on emotions (using an ethical method), which is what Oelm accused him of lacking, but using a logical method.


And as someone directly involved in practical jurisprudence, I can confidently state that a professional court will side with the one who presents the case clearly and concisely, like a mathematical theorem, rather than with emotional "water carriers," whom we often see in foreign films, typically with the aim of influencing the audience and a jury.

Everyone has their own style, and that's why we have a forum where everyone's opinion is needed and valued. :)
It's just a shame that the discussion has turned into an off-topic conversation. :(


In my opinion, the court (in real life) will side with the truth (the law), as it understands it, and not with the one who, unlike the other, logically presents something.

That is, the fact that something is presented logically (or ethically, emotionally) does not, in itself, mean that the actions of the party are legal (or illegal).

For Judges (in the game), the theory of probability (the permissibility of certain player moves without maphacks) becomes of primary importance.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
In reply to Дубровин Павел
Auto-translated
Dubrovin Pavel

The theory of probability (the permissibility of certain player moves, with or without maphacks) becomes of primary importance for Judges (in the game).
Smart and concise, I completely agree:limon:
In reply to Neoandy
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Neoandy
Here, Vic is talking about the method of analysis. He says that facts (i.e., the evidence base) should be analyzed not based on emotions (an ethical method), which is what Oelm accused him of lacking, but using a logical method.


And as someone directly involved in practical jurisprudence, I can confidently state that a professional court will side with the person who presents their case clearly and concisely, like a mathematical theorem, rather than with emotional "water carriers," whom we often see in foreign films, typically with the intention of influencing the audience and a jury.

Everyone has their own style, and that's why we have a forum where everyone's opinion is needed and valued. :)
It's a shame that the discussion has turned into an off-topic debate. :(

This is some nonsense. I don't need this kind of attitude. If someone's grandfather had a WWII medal stolen, that's a matter for the police. If we're discussing a game like Heroes, it's a deeply personal discussion involving an analysis of the player's positions over several years of playing – related to the PLAYER'S PERSONALITY and having NOTHING to do with JURISPRUDENCE. Just like in a game of Mafia, the variance is worse than in poker (I've seen it in practice). NEO, you should have defended the one-portal player, but you acted like a bullet from the mud – wherever you were formed, that's where you came from.
You've gone too far bringing your work (hobby, practice, or whatever you're doing with your mistress) to the forum and showing off here. What's wrong with you? Have you completely lost sight of the connection between the quality of the game and the player's personality? Surely, you're all reasonable people!
Do you know Rebel's personality? How could there be any cheating?
A constructive suggestion: REHABILITATE REBEL, continue the tournament from the same positions! If necessary, organize an online vote AMONG ONLY the tournament participants to decide whether to continue the game from the moment of disqualification and restore Rebellious as a legitimate player
In reply to Дубровин Павел
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Dubrovin Pavel
In my opinion, the court (in life) will be on the side of truth (the law), as it understands it...

And how do you think the court understands the law? From a logical or emotional point of view?
This made me think of this:
"He is, of course, guilty, but he... is not guilty..." (c) :)

And regarding Alone's posts and similar ones from the same movie:

"- Who is the witness?
- Me! What happened?" :p
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Before the tournament, I decided that either I would team up with someone to create a decent international portal, or this would be my last tournament. I didn't receive any help with the website, so I didn't get excited about the tournament; I simply knew that it wouldn't lead to anything more than just another tournament. Yes, I still think Rebel was cheating. Was it the right decision to vote for the ban? I didn't want to go against my conscience, but I guess sometimes you have to. In any case, I could have continued to watch everyone get upset about Rebel's ban, but I don't know what, but something clicked in my head after the argument between Pita and Neo, especially after the latter's post. And I ended my participation in this tournament; I don't have any motivation anyway, and watching good people argue isn't enjoyable. And besides, who cares; its ending wouldn't have made anyone particularly happy or sad. I'm not even talking about the fact that, no matter what the tournament results were, most of the particularly active people here wouldn't have acknowledged them. And in general, the river of negativity wouldn't have dried up for a long time.
In reply to Дубровин Павел
Auto-translated
So, what's with all the attacks on logic?!

Master_A
Logic can work differently for everyone, including the judges.

Logic cannot work differently; it either works or it doesn't.

Dubrovin Pavel
In my opinion, in real life, the court will side with the truth (the law), as the court understands it, and not with the person who, unlike the other, logically presents something.

You're contradicting yourself. You can't logically present a falsehood.
What? Have you completely lost the connection between the quality of the game and the personality of the player? Surely, you're all reasonable people!
Do you know Rebel's personality? What kind of cheating could there be?

Well, we can compile a list of players for whom cheating is impossible and share it with the foreign judges.

I believe that the procedure for reviewing cheating cases could borrow some principles from jurisprudence. For example, presenting an "accusation" in a standardized format (on the forum in the form of a detailed post, and not in a private message) and giving the "accused" the opportunity to provide detailed explanations on all the presented facts in the same format (on the forum) BEFORE a decision is made.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
In reply to StickyFingaz
User Avatar
Auto-translated
StickyFingaz
Before the tournament, he decided that either he would team up with someone to create a decent international portal, or this would be his last tournament. He didn't receive any help with the website, so he didn't exactly lose interest in the tournament, but he simply knew that it wouldn't lead to anything more than just another tournament.
It seems someone is eating a lot :)

Thought number one: "Simply holding" another major tournament is an achievement in itself. Especially a tournament with such a lineup.

Thought number two: conflicts like Rebel vs. the judges or Pete vs. Neo are an inevitable part of any prestigious tournament. The fact that the first World Championship went without them was just pure luck. Normally, a couple of arguments before/after/during the event are a constant factor.

Thought number three: thought number one follows from thought number two.

Thought number four: to do complex things, ideas and enthusiasm are not enough. You also need a certain stubbornness, similar to what is required in long, drawn-out hero games. Because enthusiasm comes and goes, so in its absence, some kind of substitute is needed.

Thought number five: this stubbornness is a trainable quality, including through situations like the one that has arisen. It's good that it happened in the gaming sphere, which doesn't involve material or other losses. This is an opportunity to practice it for free.

Statistics

Welcome our newest member: Emil