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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”Auto-translated
Yes, I also support changing the rule about restarts.
That is, I support the existing rule, point 4.3, being in the following form:
"4.3. Subjective restarts:
each player has the right to take a restart/restarts no later than the end of their turn on the corresponding day, that is, to start a new game with a map regeneration. It is possible to take either 2 restarts on the first day of the game (111+111), or one restart on the second day (112)."
To Dirty_Player and CryptoNight:
Guys, I don't know what you're looking at or how you're interpreting things if the previously written explanation of my proposed option doesn't tell you anything...
I'll explain again: the third restart on turn 111 is removed, the restart on turn 111 after taking turn 112 is removed, the restart on turn 112 after already taking turn 111 is removed, but the old system retains the ability to take turn 113, which, in my opinion, is very often helpful. When I made this suggestion, I was based on the fact that reducing the number of restarts is indeed necessary, as "chocolate hunters" are often encountered, but from personal experience, the situation often boils down to only turn 113, and it's not about some kind of scouting, but sometimes there are problems with money, you start with 4 heroes, you run into a block, and scouting can get stuck, and you end up in a very unpleasant situation, and for some reason, everyone has forgotten that there are games with 200% map exploration, where there may be only one or two heroes.
In other words, you could say that the difference from the system with a total of 2 days is only one, but very significant - the ability to take turn 113. I don't see anything wrong with increasing the game by 1 day, but it allows you to make a very meaningful third turn, and this restart in the current system, based on reports, was not uncommon, so its necessity is very evident!
I want to note that the 113 restart is not for "chocolate hunters," because they will still choose whether to take it on turn 112 or 113, but it would be very helpful to be able to assess the map, especially in tournaments.
If you don't like the restart on turn 113, you don't even need to write, this suggestion is not for you, but for those who it helped and who support it...
To Pit for LM:
Perhaps, the wording about 111+111, or 113, which can be used on 112, will be more accurate.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
but it does allow you to make a very impactful 3rd turn.
Exactly, it can take 30-40 minutes...
this rest in the current system, based on reports, was not uncommon.
I don't remember... and I couldn't find anything about it using the search. Can you give an example? And maybe, because of 1% of cases, especially in a ranked season, it's not worth causing discord?
It's surprising to see the trend towards fewer restarts. At the very least, it seems strange for a CM (Challenge Map), where restarting after an unfavorable encounter is often not a problem. The balance is still debatable, and it's unclear what to do in a panic situation when you get a bad starting draft, or face 12 Gnolls, for example. It won't be any easier with HL (Hero Level) templates. Based on my experience, it's optimal to have 2 days of restarts on Jebus and 3 days on other templates. But in the VT (Versus Tournament) version, I don't know how to play SOD (Survival of the Damned) with 40 Imps at the start in Metro or with Gurnisson without a Ballista and a built second level.
On the other hand, I definitely support the desire to reduce the game time. However, I think they're approaching it from the wrong angle. After VT, playing with paused time in battles and a fixed timer seems absurd. Therefore, the MOD should be developed in this direction. It's NOT NORMAL for a player to be able to pour a drink and scratch their back during a battle. The party limit requirements (6+ hours) shouldn't allow wasting seconds here and there. Dear hardcore SOD players, killing a horde of zombies with a Ballista and Snakes is NOT a skill; it's simply disrespectful to the opponent (who might be sitting at their computer, tense, and afraid to miss the start of their turn). Especially for complex templates like Jebus, Anarchy, HM12, etc. Such battles should definitely affect the overall time limit, as they do in VT. And, of course, Quick Combat. While a VT player can complete 6-7 battles with a single Angel in 10-20 seconds using Quick Combat, how long will a hardcore SOD player take? Or, for example, two Ifrits with a Tent. You can continue the list yourself.
And restarts are just a drop in the ocean.
Therefore, I'm against the changes.
P.S. Dubrovin Pavel, by the way, how many times have you played SOD (% of games) in the past year, just out of curiosity?
The 6-minute timer in SOD is simply awful; you sit there on your day off, like an idiot, waiting for your turn – you can’t even go to the bathroom, do the dishes, or take a break. As a result, your family is also unhappy, and you play nervously, which affects the quality of the game. Therefore, whenever possible, I always play with unlimited time, which doesn’t affect the turn time. If they add a sand timer in HD mode, that would be really great. And reducing the game time through restarts is really stupid.
I don't remember... and I couldn't find anything about it using search. Can you give an example? And maybe, considering it happens in only 1% of cases, especially in a ranked game, is it worth causing discord?
This happened in my second-to-last tournament game, which Crypto was actually watching, where on turn 113, I was stuck against a wall of mages...
Also, in this tournament, about 35-40 games were played. Approximately 50% of them didn't mention restarts. Of those who did, I counted 3 restarts on turn 113, which is about 15%. I'm sure this percentage increases when more experienced and skilled players play against each other, as they usually don't just blindly restart, but analyze the map and make a decision about restarting based on that. When a large number of beginners play, this percentage decreases, which is not surprising. By the way, I've looked through some reports and found that in about 25% of games, players don't restart at all, using only a couple of restarts or even none, and in the remaining 75%, both players have unused restarts at the end. This is just to say that the forum isn't dominated by players who constantly restart!
Play fun games with players you know, and if you're playing with a newbie, there's no need to complain about restarts... And if the player you know takes all the restarts (in 80% of cases, they definitely don't take all of them) - again, don't attribute it to blindly restarting, especially since 3 restarts on turn 111 and one on turn 113 is a big difference! Restarts on turn 111 are more often about finding a better starting position, rather than a restart on turn 113, which is usually a forced decision.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
The 6-minute timer is a real turn-off in SOD. You sit there on your day off, like an idiot, waiting for your turn – you can’t even go to the bathroom, do the dishes, or take a break. As a result, your family is also unhappy, and you end up playing nervously, which affects the quality of the game. That’s why I always play with unlimited time whenever possible, so the turn time doesn’t matter. If they add a sand timer in HD mode, that would be really cool. And reducing the game time through restarts is really stupid.
You can turn on the sound effects in the game and you’ll hear when it’s your turn.
Reducing the number of restarts won’t make the community happy, that’s obvious. And I don’t agree with RMax’s vague suggestions. We can close this thread.
what to do when you're in a panic and get a Pikedram at the start, or, say, 12 Gnolls?
It's elementary, you need to take a rest, considering such circumstances, that is, in 3 generations - I don't believe that all 3 will be unplayable.
After WotG, playing with time stopping in battles and a fixed timer seems absurd.
When I switched to playing with a timer, I was incredibly nervous and made mistakes, even rushing in battles, even now. So, a certain percentage of players will suffer greatly from this. [off]And the constant timer in WotG also bothers me, although it is convenient.[/off]
It's NOT NORMAL when a player in battle can pour themselves a drink and scratch their butt. The requirements of the party limit (6+ hours) should not allow wasting seconds here and there.
You're judging by yourself, well, you're an experienced player, but less powerful players need additional processing time to process information, even in battle, you can calmly think.
killing a horde of zombies with a ballista and snakes is NOT a skill, it's just disrespect to the opponent.
Normal players often warn - there will be a long turn now, but, of course, a pause when switching and/or sound indication is very necessary - well, it's not in WotG either. R55Max
I counted 3 restarts out of 113, approximately 15%.
Sorry, I also looked at the reports - and I don't remember that, I just looked at the last few pages - out of 15 mentions of restarts, there is not a single 113, so... Let some (hypothetical) percentage of 113 restarts be lost - but the game will become "more skill-based" and a little faster.
approximately 25% of players don't use rests at all, using only a couple of rests.
so 2 taken rests is 100% rest usage!!
restart on 113, which is often forced.
...which will definitely be a 112 that wasn't taken... 20-40 minutes of time. Satyr
You can turn on the sound effects in the game and you will hear when it's your turn.
theShevanesian
can't even go to the toilet.
%) And extraneous sounds make you run back and forth, it's quite possible to get confused and forget (people don't play with just the sound)
Sorry, I also looked at the reports – and I don’t remember any, I even checked the last few pages – out of 15 mentions of rests, there isn’t a single 113, so… Let some (hypothetical) percentage of 113 rests be lost – but the game will become “more skill-based” and a little faster.
I told you about the tournament I’m participating in; I didn’t look at anything else, check FB6.
So, 2 taken rests – that’s 100% chocolate mining!
I meant 2 rests for two people, and it doesn’t matter if that rest is on 111 or 113, it’s still just one. And even if one person takes two rests, that doesn’t mean they’re looking for something and mining; I’m not even saying that your expression copied above is speculation and blatant lies! 100% means 1,000,000 out of 1,000,000 cases. Even 100 out of 100 is unrealistic and implausible. But 3 out of 20 times taking 113 is a reality, confirmed by facts...
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
I told you about the tournament I'm participating in; I didn't watch anything else. Watch FB6.
I'll repeat: a tournament is a different matter; 3 restarts are allowed here, although 2 is better during the group stage.
The statement you copied above is a guess and a blatant lie!
If you had written - 2 restarts in total for the game, I wouldn't have misunderstood you. But 2 restarts taken from one player as "proof" of not using chocolate is a failure, because the player chose from 3 options and naturally didn't take the last restart. That's what I meant.
Added 5 minutes later
In 25% of cases, players don't use chocolate at all, using a couple of restarts.
- It is clearly implied that each of them. IMHO. Not to mention that the remaining 75% (where they use many restarts, as I understand) should also not be dismissed as insignificant
%) And the strange sounds make you run back and forth, and it's quite possible to get confused and forget things (people don't play with the sound off).
I always play with the hero sound effects on. If they are turned off, I don't feel comfortable. And it's simply more convenient; you can hear when your turn is over, etc. And in particularly long or difficult battles/turns, I also turn on the hero music for better concentration.
Message from Tootsie Pie I repeat: a tournament is a different matter; 3 restarts are acceptable here, although 2 is better in the group stage.
It has already been said that the rules of the season are often based on the rules of tournaments. In addition, when playing for fun, you can always agree on the number of restarts; if you are not satisfied with the number, you can refuse to play with a player and look for another. For example, the rules of the season state that the time per turn is 6 minutes, but players agree on 8, 10, or unlimited time. This does not invalidate the game but is a matter of agreement. If you do not agree to unlimited time, then the opponent does not agree to 6 minutes.
If you had written - 2 restarts in total for the game, I would not have misunderstood you. But 2 restarts taken by one player as "proof" of not cheating would be a failure, because the player chose from 3 options and naturally did not take the last restart. That's what I meant.
Well, now you understand, and 2 restarts in a SOD (Simultaneous Online Duel) is a normal situation, and it would also be a failure to consider taking them as "proof" of cheating, because even the proposed system with 2 days in total implies 2 restarts. In addition, the fact that you are essentially determining why one player or another did not take the 3rd restart "naturally" is completely unclear to me. When you say such things, you are speaking for all those who took 2 restarts and did not take the 3rd. Can you judge the reasons why all the players who did not take the 3rd restart did not take it, and the reasons why they took the previous 2?
- It is clearly implied that each of them. IMHO.
I noticed that you really like to attribute the characteristic of being irrefutable to statements. Where in that expression is there proof that the phrase cannot be perceived in any other way? You understood it that way, but that does not mean that it cannot be understood differently in any case. In case of misunderstanding, clarifications are made.
PS. I also play with Heroic sound
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
I'm a newbie, of course. But I think Oelm is right in some ways! It's one thing to have a big game (let's say, the 3rd game in a best-of-three series in the playoffs after a tough group stage), and another thing to have a regular season game where it's not enjoyable to sit and wait 30+ minutes for each turn on the 1st week. For a big game, you can sit and concentrate for 8+ hours. But if a person wants to just play an interesting game, that's different. Of course, limiting the time of battles will limit the possibilities and won't allow the player to fully reveal their skill, but when a person takes a mini-break during a game, that's also not pleasant. I wouldn't be against having a sand timer in the game.
Can you speculate on the reasons why players who didn't choose the 3rd Restoration didn't choose it, and why they chose the previous two?
With a high probability – yes, as I already explained. Based on rough estimates, if they're not looking for an easy win, they'll likely choose 0-1 Restoration, and 113 is only chosen as a last resort.
Where in that statement is there proof that the phrase cannot be interpreted differently?
I wrote that it's just my opinion (IMHO), and it's not meant as an attack, but rather as an explanation. Sorry if it came across as tactless.
Дубровин Павел
