Which Might and Magic universe are you referring to? — The unified universe of Might and Magic.

XEL

14 years ago

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Ment

Perhaps as a story... I can't agree with the idea of it being a city and having its own units, except for maybe a few minor details.

They are not only present in Heroes 3.

XEL

14 years ago

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Based on the poll, the old universe is definitely preferred. It had an original and interesting backstory concept (a science fiction story about a super-civilization), and the plots of most of the games were very well-made. In addition, in terms of visual style and soundtrack, the old Might and Magic and Heroes of Might and Magic series are top-notch. Ashan is not entirely bad, but it looks pale and faded compared to the original universe. Moreover, some elements of the setting are somewhat derivative and fall into the category of clichés. The biggest drawback is that they replaced the excellent old Might and Magic universe with it. The worst game in terms of plot set in Ashan is Heroes V, and the best is Heroes VI.

Ment

14 years ago

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But you understand that I'm judging based on them. Especially since the comparison is about units within the context of Heroes, and I didn't mention Omega RPGs.

ОMEGA

14 years ago

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XEL

After all, the Orcs of the New Horde are no longer the bloodthirsty barbarians they were in the First and Second Wars. Even Doomhammer tried to free the Orcs from the influence of demons (and he succeeded in freeing the Horde from the Shadow Council), although under him they still carried out their assigned mission in Azeroth, and after him, Thrall (who he was a mentor to for some time) and Grom managed to finally change the Horde, returning it to its shamanistic traditions and freeing it from the Curse of Blood.

The current Horde of Durotar has actually returned to the culture that the Orcs had before they were corrupted by demons. The Dark Horde and the remaining fel orcs of Outland are the Orcs who still lead their former destructive lifestyle. Under Garrosh, the New Horde, of course, finally quarreled with the Alliance and began to wage war with them again, but the Orcs did not become what they were in the first and second parts. And many do not support Garrosh.

I'm not arguing that the New Horde is not the same as it was in the first Warcrafts, but it is also not the same as it was in the third part and the beginning of WoW. In the first parts, Orcs = evil, humans = good. In the third, this changed, and the boundaries blurred. Now, it is precisely the difference in traditions and worldviews that exists, not as radical as good versus evil, but significant enough to wage war. In the time of the first two Warcrafts, players only needed good and evil (and in the time of the first three Heroes as well, except that in the third, in addition to good and evil, neutrals appeared). The third Warcraft corresponded to the spirit of the time and began to reveal seemingly negative characters from other sides. Now the game is changing in the same way to meet the demands of the current generation of players. The fact that many are unhappy is true, but it is also logical, given the history of the world. It would be strange if the entire people, who had previously lived obediently according to the laws and rules of Thrall, suddenly and cheerfully began to follow the very different laws of Garrosh.

Added 3 minutes ago

XEL

The worst game in the Heroes series in terms of plot is Heroes V, the best is Heroes VI.

To be honest, I haven't finished the campaign in the 6th game yet. But it's hard for me to say what I liked less - the dullness of Isabel or the gatherings of the children of Glory Griffin. Moreover, in both parts, I liked the secondary characters - Godric in the 5th and Kraal and Svetlana in the 6th. Perhaps the 6th game has more heroes that I liked, but I wouldn't say that one is a big difference.

Adagio

14 years ago

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The monk's mutation into a glory is inexplicable.

The monk has mutated into a novice. Glory is an entirely new type of Haven unit.

Well, the Tower has a more Indian style.

Rather, it's a combination. The Altar of Wishes and the Golden Pavilion are perhaps the only buildings that can somehow remind one of the East, of Asia.

Ple-Sen

14 years ago

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To be honest, the Brackadians reminded me more of the Greeks.

Happy Life

14 years ago

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The orcs of the new horde are pathetic, whiny creatures, unworthy of a human's blade. This was a bad and unnecessary move.

XEL

14 years ago

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Only these "pathetic, whiny creatures" saved Azeroth from the Legion in the Third War, participated in the overthrow of Illidan, the victory over Kil'jaeden, and the destruction of the Lich King and Deathwing. There's no need to talk nonsense about them. In general, let's stick to the topic.

bobchik

14 years ago

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Necropolis is Necropolis. First, the Death Knights were replaced with Undead, which doesn't make much sense, but whatever. Then they were changed again to some Lamas, and the Bone Dragons were replaced with Fate Spinners, and here a question arises - why? In the Castle of the Dead, dragon-undead fit better than mutant women. Lamas are just some incomprehensible thing; if Death Knights clearly represent undead cavalry, then what are Lamas? Where does such a weird creature live? They were made just for the sake of it, as if to say, "we're not just copying everything, we can do this too!"

Mutant women fit no worse than bone dragons.
As far as I understand, the Greek myth about Arachne, a girl-weaver whom Athena turned into a spider so that she would weave forever, was taken as a basis.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C0%F0%E0%F5%ED%E0
And in the sixth game, the Necropolis is positioned as the Cult of the Spider, so everything is connected.
And in general, the spider as a symbol means: What is a Spider
Unfortunately, there was no place for dragons.
Well, and the origin of the Lamas is explained in detail in the Necropolis campaign itself. There, you also get the Staff of Sandro as a reward.
Lamas is an unsuccessful experiment by mages to create a superior breed of beastmen by unnaturally combining a human (mostly slaves and criminals) and magical creatures (in this case, a manticore).
So, it wasn't done just for the sake of it, but rather as a well-thought-out concept.

Oh yes, green-skinned orcs are a Blizzard thing, and they can be sued for it. But in the original Heroes universe, only goblins were green, and orcs were always brown, except for the third game.

Besides, since the history of Askhan is unique, goblins, orcs, and others all have a common origin in terms of how they were created, not in terms of species - that is, they all have the same mother (mages), but different fathers (demons, elves, beasts, etc.), which gives reason to consider them a race.

Oh yes, I remembered.
I read something about the M&M universe a long time ago on Demilich's website.
It seemed boring and depressing to me. I couldn't get through it.
So, it turns out that Askhan appeals to me more. Therefore, I think that they are separate things.
In general, I think that Askhan is cooler because he is at least interesting to me, but Xeen and others are not.

(yes, Hel (or is it still Xeen?),

well, if you stick strictly to the rules of translation, as he likes and always advocates for, then it's "Zel". Otherwise, he'll say again that the translator is bad, a fool, and doesn't understand anything. :))))

Happy Life

14 years ago

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Of course, Blizzard gave them a lot of incredible abilities, but that doesn't change the fact that the "current" Orcs are not comparable to the old ones.

In reply to bobchik

ОMEGA

14 years ago

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bobchik

..........
So, it wasn't done just for show; the concepts are quite well-thought-out.

It was done just for show. They replaced units that harmoniously complemented each other with something completely random. Yes, they came up with a backstory for them; otherwise, it would be stupid to introduce them. But a backstory like "these are undead from those who died out/don't exist anymore" is just an excuse to avoid fully thinking through the design.

bobchik

Ah yes, green-skinned orcs are a Blizzard thing, and they can be sued for it. But in the original Heroes universe, only goblins were green, and orcs were always brown, with the third one being an exception.

Orcs are the Professor's creation; green-skinned, brutal orcs are a creation of Games Workshop in the form of Warhammer. Blizzard stole the concept from GW. Just saying. And yes, "greenskin" exists in Warhammer, Dungeons & Dragons, Disciples, and many other games and universes. It's impossible to determine the appearance of the races based on a few parts of Heroes because it changes too much from part to part.

bobchik

Furthermore, since the history of Askhan is unique, goblins, orcs, and others all have a common origin in terms of how they were created, not in terms of species – meaning they have the same mother (mages), but different fathers (demons, elves, beasts, etc.), which gives reason to consider them a race.

I don't understand you here. I'm not against considering goblins and orcs a race; where did I say that wasn't the case? And by the way, aren't goblins and orcs from demons?

bobchik

Ah, yes, I remembered.
I read about the Might & Magic universe a while ago on Demilich's website.
It seemed kind of bleak and depressing to me. I couldn't get through it.
So, Askhan appeals to me more. Therefore, I think they are separate things.
In general, I think Askhan is cooler because, at least, he is interesting to me, while Xyn and others are not.

I couldn't get through Tolstoy's "War and Peace" in ninth grade, but I read Salvatore's "Dark Elf" cycle with pleasure. So, Tolstoy is crap; Salvatore rules! Morni, whether you agree or not, let's discuss it in the Warcraft thread in the off-topic section. I brought them up here as an example of breaking stereotypes, not for a flame war.

Ment

14 years ago

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It seems like it was just for the sake of it. They replaced perfectly harmonious units with something completely random. Yes, they came up with a backstory for them, otherwise it would be silly to introduce them.

Well, of course, it's good that bobchik shed light on their history, but they still don't look very harmonious. Although, something had to be done with the rather tired dragon-skeletons.

And by the way, aren't goblins and orcs also from the demons?

Yes, they differ by the serial number of the experiment, so to speak.

ОMEGA

14 years ago

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Well, sure, it's good that bobchik shed some light on their history, but they still don't look very harmonious. Although, something had to be done about the overused dragon skeletons.

If you really want to change something, considering the removed Town Portal scrolls in the fifth game, they could have taken these spinners to replace them, and left the dragons, or vice versa, removed the dragons and left the knights. No matter how harmonious the selection looks in the third game, I can agree that variations of spider priestesses could be added to the spider cult if changes are needed. But the lamassu... No, it's a pointless and unnecessary thing.

Ment

14 years ago

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I disagree. I actually liked the sphinxes (even though they were incorrectly named lamassu; they are essentially dead sphinxes) more than the spider-legged creatures. Before the game was released, I even hoped they would be new champions, but it wasn't meant to be. As for the sixth-level unit: we have to admit that both the Death Knights and the Undead are quite good units, so it makes sense to keep at least one of them, or even both.

Ple-Sen

14 years ago

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Generally, it was mentioned somewhere that they "decided to make vampires and black knights one unit, hence the distinctive upgrade appearance." Although this idea is incredibly silly. Especially considering the absurd appearance of the upgrade.