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Posts from Which Might and Magic universe are you referring to?
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NiKShoKer
14 years ago
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It's simple – reunite Ashan with the old universe.
HOW? The old universe was just like our world, only with magic. Each planet had only a few intelligent animals that evolved. The more developed ones subjugated the animals (Pegasi, Griffins). The very developed ones created them. And that's how life went. The Enroth universe is vast, just like ours. The Ashan universe, however, is limited and very small. There are no high technologies there, and the origin of each creature needs to be explained. Each race, each nation. From history, it is clear that practically nothing is known about the times before the creation of the seventh dragon, but if you were to create a story about those times, it would turn into utter nonsense. Ash created the world. Urgash wants to destroy it. How to connect Enroth with Ashan is unknown. It is impossible to make it so that the ancients created Ash and Urgash – it's just nonsensical. Yes... nonsense. Not because it looks stupid, but because it cannot be described, and if it can, it will still be nonsense. I'll write in the "Future Add-ons" topic about the possibility of describing the appearance of races from WoG and H3.
Added 2 minutes later
WoG
I made a mistake... WoG (Wake of Gods)
Ple-Sen
14 years ago
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Actually, the old universe isn't called Enroth. Moreover, the population of many planets isn't made up of native inhabitants, but rather colonists. And finally, Ash and Urgash can be linked to the old universe, portrayed as cyborgs, similar to Sheltem, Korakh, and Escaton. Especially since Ash's design is inspired by older installments. This could also easily justify the cameo of Crag from the fifth and sixth games – he's quite the adventurer. So, it's possible to connect all of this if there's a desire to do so.
NiKShoKer
14 years ago
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Actually, the old universe isn't called Enroth.
I don't know what it's called there. I just copied it from Wikipedia.
Moreover, the population of many planets are not native inhabitants, but colonists. And finally, Ashu and Urgash can be linked to the old universe, made into cyborgs, similar to Shel'tem, Korakh, and Escaton. Moreover, Ashu's design is inspired by old parts. This could immediately justify the cameo of Crag from the fifth and sixth games – he's quite the adventurer. So, everything can be connected if there's a desire.
Cyborgs? But can cyborgs give birth to other dragons? Who are the progenitors of one or another type of magic, just like they themselves are. This can be proven, for example, by how the eclipse affects the spell that imprisons demons. To be honest, Ashu and Urgash cannot be made into characters from the sixth game – they are GODS. And gods mean rulers of the universe. And these rulers are not mentioned in the old universe. And if they are not mentioned, it means they are not gods. Doesn't it add up? That means the universes cannot be connected.
bobchik
14 years ago
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I believe that the only way to connect two worlds is by placing them in the same galaxy. I'm not sure what worlds existed in the old universe, but there were portals to Axeoth, so it's possible that there could be portals to Ashan as well (as someone here mentioned) - thus, heroes from the old universes could have ended up in Ashan. But this doesn't negate the unique culture and origin of Ashan. There's no need to tie them to some "Ancients" or whoever. Let them exist side by side.
I completely forgot that the fifth installment was developed by a Russian team. So, the Russian names for the factions are quite authentic – and these are not translations, but original names. How they translated them into English is a completely different matter. And in general, the principle itself has changed – in Enroth, identification with a faction was based on the type of castle, while in Ashan, the races are identified as races, not as appendages of castles.
As strange as it may seem, the game was still developed in English. At least the English editor suggests this (there was no Russian version at all). In addition, the entire world, all the original names, were created by Ubisoft. It is possible that they initially developed Ashan in English as well, as the most universal language.
But I also don't think that the faction of light elves in the Russian localization should be called Sylvan. And the Russian meaning of "Inferno" can generally be associated with demons, as they are not known for their culture.
Regarding the connection to Ashan... Why can't these worlds exist in parallel? Ashan was created by Ash, the rest of the universe was created by someone else, and then they intersected...
mass appeal, global reach, intertwined with incomprehensibility, chaos in general
There's no need to invent things here. I like the original universe because the events that take place in it are genuinely interesting and quite logical.
in Ashan, everything is done in the most orderly way possible
Yes, it's boring and tedious.
they criticize Ashan for its excessive canonical fantasy
Ashan is just a typical fantasy world. It doesn't stand out in any way. It's simply banal.
+1, but in my case, I'll clarify that the problem isn't so much the standard fantasy setting of Ashan itself, but the fact that it was presented as a replacement for the original universe.
NiKShoKer
I've been telling everyone for a week now that they don't like the uniqueness of the old universe, but rather its mass appeal, global scope, and interwoven complexity.
You know, people know best what they like and where, and no one needs you to "push" anything on them. For example, many people, including myself, primarily appreciate the non-standard elements of the Might and Magic universe.
I believe that the only way to connect two worlds is to have them exist in the same galaxy. I'm not sure what worlds were in the old universe, but there were portals to Axeoth, so maybe there could be portals to Ashan (as someone here wrote) - thus, heroes from the old universes could have ended up in Ashan. But this does not negate the uniqueness of Ashan's culture and origin. Why tie them to some Ancients or whoever. Let them exist side by side =)
Bobchik, the problem is that you don't know. Read the history of the old Universe. All the worlds (Enroth, Axeoth, Xeen, Terra, etc.) exist in one common space (in one galaxy or in different ones - it doesn't matter). Thus, interstellar travel between planets = a portal between worlds. And the Ancients are the very race that populated/transformed most of these worlds. They left the portals and spaceships. And also, in each world, the Ancients placed their Guardians, who in Ashan can be Ashan and Urgash. This is about the connection between the worlds.
If we talk about the fact that in Ashan we have a division by races, and not by castles, then let's go through it in order.
Castle-Haven-Haven. There is nothing to say about the comparison between the third and fifth versions, the swordsmen were replaced by griffins, and that's it. In the sixth version, the pikeman was crossed with the crusader, freeing up space for a healer, although she is also a human. But the mutation of the monk into a Gloria is inexplicable, as is the transformation of ordinary horses into solar steeds. Why - it's not clear, but never mind. In the sixth version, the number of races in the city increased by one - Gloria, so we get 4 races in one city (humans, griffins, angels, Glorias). .
Rampart - Sylvan. The main thing that people like to talk about is that instead of dwarves, there are elf-swordsmen. That's right, in the third version, the dwarves lived underground, as they should, and, having concluded an alliance with the elves, they arranged an exit from their underground mines in the Rampart, everything is normal. In the fifth version, the elves and dwarves are not allies, and the Sylvan castle is a huge tree, there is no place for dwarves there. In the rest, the centaurs became fairies, the riders on pegasuses drank away their pegasuses and went into druidism, the rest remained unchanged. That is, from this point we get -1 race. .
Tower - Academy. The Nagas became Rakshasas, the rest remained unchanged. So, in terms of races, the score is 0. There was also a claim that the mages should live in the desert, and not in the snowy mountains (yes, Hel (or is it still Xel?), I know that there are deserts in Erathia, but this is not visible in the third version, and we only see this in Might and Magic 7, so let's skip this point). But, excuse me, why? Explain to me why mages should live in the desert, and not in the mountains? .
Inferno - Inferno. The transition from the third to the fifth version was again marked by minimal changes. The Gogs were made into succubi and swapped places with the demons, instead of ifrits, nightmares were hired and swapped places with the pit lords. Plus or minus, it's all the same. In the sixth version, let's look. The trio of Imp-Gog-Cerberus turned into Frenzied-Succubi-Cerberuses, that is, again, it's all the same. Further, yes, "changes". Demons, Pit Lords, Ifrits and Devils turned into Broodmother, Scourge, Ravager and Pit Lord. In general, the old Demon and the old Pit Lord (Spawn of Evil) are similar to the Scourge and the Ravager, the Devil is the new Pit Lord, also plus or minus the same. That is, we have a replacement of ifrits (by the way, according to the history of the third version, they are mercenaries in the service of Krigan, and not Krigan himself) with the Broodmother. Again, it's all the same. Ah yes, the unique "style" compared to the third version, which NiKShoKer mentioned. In the third version, everyone was, as it were, "humanoid with horns". Of course, red humanoids (exception - dogs and broodmothers), all burning after upgrading and all having horns or spikes - the originality of the units, uh-huh. The height of originality. .
Necropolis - Necropolis. First, the Death Knights were replaced by Undead, there is not much meaning in this, well, whatever. Then they were replaced by some Lamassu, and the Bone Dragons by Fate Weavers, and here a question arises - why? In a castle of the dead, dragon-undead fit better than mutant bitches. Lamassu is generally an incomprehensible thing, if Death Knights are clearly undead from Cavaliers, then what is Lamassu? Where does such crap live? They are made for show, they say, "we are not copying everything, we can do this too!" .
Dungeon - Dungeon. As already mentioned, a set of magically bred warlocks' creatures has been replaced by a relatively homogeneous army of dark elves. Is this good? The answer is ambiguous. On the one hand, fans of Dark Elves are delighted, and the army has become less diverse, on the other hand, it somehow looks illogical, to be honest. If the Dark Elves are so proud and cool, then they, like the warlocks, should not fight themselves, let the slaves go ahead, and this is also said in their history. But in theory, in the game, the Dark Elves of the first two levels act as meat, and only then do the minotaur slaves appear. But this is my opinion. Also, I agree with Xel and believe that the Dark Elves of Jadama are much more original and interesting than the D&D and WH calque. .
Citadel - Stronghold. There was a claim about exclusively orcs. You know, NiKShoKer and bobchik, in many universes there is a term "greenskin", which unites goblins, orcs, ogres, because they differ only in size and physique, character, skin color, culture, everything else is common. In the third version, we see exactly this union. Two goblin units, orcs, ogres, and with them Rukh birds, cyclops, monsters. In the fifth version, we have a goblin, a centaur, three orc units, a wyvern, a cyclops. That is, there are again 4 greenskins, plus appendages. And if you take into account the size of the executioners, then, to be honest, when I didn't see him in the game, but only saw the first screenshots, I thought that this was an ogre... In the sixth version, the situation is the same, only a harpy instead of a wyvern. .
The swamp castle from the third version, Conflux, the dwarf castle from the 5th version, the Naga Sanctuary. These are unique castles and it is difficult to compare them properly, not with each other.
In general, I wanted to say. Regardless of the part, the castles are more or less the same. And this "more or less" is very small. It makes no sense to say that one is good and the other is not, because it's all the same. The exception is the radically rewritten underground castle. And it will always be so. Otherwise, in order for the castles to start to look different from themselves from previous parts, you will have to do a big experiment, and the fourth part is an excellent example of this. But the publishers will not go for it - the risk is too great.
The riders on pegasi got their pegasi drunk and switched to druidism.
And they also changed their gender. :)
Explain to me why mages should live in the desert and not in the mountains?
And who says so? Well, let them live as it is customary in the universe. Although I like the Ashan mages more for their style (although the tier 3 units are also quite good).
We have a replacement for the ifrits.
Omega, can you tell me if the Krigan ifrits are somehow related to djinns and mages? Just curious.
Of course, red humanoid creatures (with the exception of dogs and breeders), all burning up after the upgrade and all having horns or spikes - the originality of the units, uh-huh. The height of originality.
Game developers generally have very similar ideas about demons, so it is difficult to find something original by definition.
Who says so? Well, let them live according to the established norms of the universe. Although, I personally prefer the Ashan mages for their style (even though the Tier 3 units are quite good).
This was a response to this statement:NiKShoKer
In what way? Better division of factions based on fantasy style. Not mages in the snow, but in the deserts.
Ment
Omega, can you shed some light on whether the Krigan ifrits are related to djinns and mages? Just curious.
Not that I know of. Ifrits are one of the spirits of the elemental plane of fire; they came to the Krigans as mercenaries. After fleeing to Axeoth, they decided to separate from them. I don't know what they disagreed about with the djinns, but I assume it's just their nature. But it's better to ask XeL.Ment
Game developers usually have very similar ideas about demons, so it's difficult to find something truly original.
Yes, and that's normal because, firstly, the source of everything lies in religion, and no matter how you twist it, the visual representation will still be based on biblical descriptions. Secondly, there's no need to break established stereotypes, otherwise, confusion will arise about who is who, and even if you do break them, it's not always done correctly.
Look at Warcraft; in the third part, the orcs went from being barbaric destroyers to spiritual individuals. The experiment was successful, and it can be taken as an example of how to break stereotypes. But time passed, and the same Blizzard decided to return to the classics, which is why the wise shaman Thrall stepped down from the position of Warchief, and power was transferred to the crude barbarian Garrosh. Many people don't like this, and I don't either, but in reality, if you think about it, it's all correct. People (I'm not talking about the race, but about us – gamers, readers, role-players) in their desire to be "good drow" and other rejected, misunderstood beauties and defenders of the beaver forget the role-playing aspect completely. They forget that Drizzt and Thrall are exceptions to the rule, not the rule. Salvatore and Blizzard constantly emphasize this in their books, and it seems they decided to point this out more forcefully. Because if we have smart, good orcs fighting smart, good humans, what's the point of them fighting? They should make peace and live happily ever after. Therefore, the sides must be different, not necessarily in a banal good versus evil way, but rather order and discipline against chaos and destruction, but there must be differences.
In the Desert Bastion, there are, of course, but the style there was not Arab-Indian, as in the Silver Cities. So, it is indeed better to compare it to the Tower city screen.
I agree with Omega's post. Regarding the ifrits, they are cousins of the djinns and their opposites in terms of element. Djinns and ifrits were creations of the Ancients, elementally connected to the Dimensions of Air and Fire, respectively, and they guarded the Tomb of Varn. Many djinns and ifrits live outside the Tomb and are hostile to each other.
ОMEGA
14 years ago
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Well, in terms of style, the Tower has more of an Indian feel, while the Academy has more of an Arabic feel, in my humble opinion.
Look at Warcraft; in the third part, the Orcs evolved from Barbarian destroyers into spiritual beings, and the experiment was a success. It can be taken as an exemplary standard of how to break stereotypes. But time passed, and Blizzard themselves decided to return to the classics, hence the departure of the wise shaman Thrall from the position of Warchief and the transfer of power to the crude Barbarian Garrosh. Many people don't like this, and neither do I, but if you think about it, it's actually correct. People (I'm not talking about the race, but about us – gamers, readers, role-players) in their desire to be "good drow" and other rejected, misunderstood beauties and beaver protectors, completely forget the role-playing aspect, forgetting that Drizzt and Thrall are exceptions to the rule, not the rule. Salvatore constantly emphasizes this in his books, and Blizzard, apparently, decided to point this out in a more forceful way. After all, if we have smart, good Orcs fighting smart, good Humans, then what's the point of them fighting? They should make peace and live happily ever after. Therefore, the sides must be different; it doesn't have to be a banal good versus evil; let there be order and discipline against chaos and destruction, but there must be differences.
Still, the Orcs of the New Horde are no longer the bloodthirsty Barbarians they were in the First and Second Wars. Even Doomhammer tried to free the Orcs from the influence of demons (and he succeeded in freeing the Horde from the Shadow Council), although under him they still carried out their assigned mission in Azeroth, and after him, Thrall (who he was a mentor to for some time) and Grom managed to finally change the Horde, returning it to its shamanistic traditions and freeing it from the Blood Curse.
The current Horde of Durotar has actually returned to the culture that the Orcs had before they were corrupted by demons. The Dark Horde and the remaining fel Orcs of Outland are the Orcs who still lead their former destructive lifestyle. Under Garrosh, the New Horde, of course, finally quarreled with the Alliance and began to wage war with them again, but the Orcs did not become what they were in the first and second parts. And many do not support Garrosh.
