Posts from A cool story from Sticky. Auto-translated

Below is an incredibly large amount of unknown stuff. It would be better to keep pregnant women and children away from the screen, as well as particularly impressionable animals. I am not responsible for the consequences caused by reading and viewing!

Before continuing to read, I suggest you download and familiarize yourself with the map Pirates of Carribean (WT). The main feature of this map is 8 starting positions around the perimeter of the map, each of which can spawn opponents, either nearby or on opposite ends of the map.

Basically, cool story.
I constantly think that heroes are missing something; I don't know what. Also, I have come to believe that long battles are not for me. And also, I get a continuous erection from Pirates of the Caribbean since the very first time I watched it. Well, firstly, of course, there’s the random start. In general, it doesn't change anything that you were born on one island or another; they are all practically identical. BUT, scouting has a greater impact on the game, as does the pace because knowing where your opponent is earlier affects the choice of tactics and possible victory. Next, of course, is the watery nature of the map; how long ago did we forget about water in Heroes! So, the map is cool. However, there are drawbacks for me. First of all, the length of the game – according to reports on the forum, games took a very long time. Secondly, the imbalance of Demonology due to the large number of cities and hiding places (possibly one of the main reasons for the amount of time spent playing). So, I was thinking about what could be done with this map to make it more interesting. The following monologue is based solely on my vision of Heroes, its good and bad sides.
Firstly, I thought, we need to reduce the size, shorten the number of starting islands to 4 or 6, reduce the total number of islands, and make the map smaller. Okay, but there are problems. But something was clearly missing in this clever plan. What else could be done secondly and thirdly? Watching Starcraft streams (and I am sure that Pirates of the Caribbean was made by Vik with an eye on this game), I realized that Heroes lacks variability. Consider this: variability exists in the building tree only in the Stronghold - Rukh-Bears or Orcs-Ogres-Cyclops. Yes, there is also the Castle with Angels or Knights, but the first case is used in 99% of cases using the same template. And Cyclopes are built within the first week, even less so, in all templates! All newbies already know the minimum buildings for each castle by heart. Not good. There is practically no variability in choosing heroes. And then I just had a breakthrough.
It is possible to create a submod for WoT for playing on new fixes adapted to new conditions. Moreover, these conditions will change the game very strongly, but for the benefit of that very variability, which increases interest in the game.
To start, let's make 3 +- fixes, change the building tree in castles, change hero specials, change the cost of buildings. Building tree – give castles 3-4 branches, allowing players to use 6-8 strategies for each castle. For example, I don’t know, maybe allow quick construction of Dragons in the Dungeon according to the scheme Trolls-Harpies-GM2-Dragons. Reduce the Dwelling cost to 10 and 10 sulfur; however, this will affect gameplay in such a way that for such a build, you will have to ignore some important objects on the map due to the lack of troops during the first three days. And the maps will be made in such a way that you will have to actively play from day one, and losing three days of tempo will not make building Dragons imba! Make the map so that it is possible and necessary to scout from the very beginning to understand what your opponent has planned based on his actions. Because if he, for example, levels up a certain hero and there are no creatures of level 3+ in his army, then probably battles are being prepared against this, and you need to find a countermeasure. On the other hand, you can surprise your opponent by not buying creatures of level 3+, making him think that you are going for fast dragons, but actually doing something else. Well, basically, many things can be invented and adapted in the map, building tree, and heroes so that nothing on it is imbalanced and create a wide scope for thinking players.

Subject

interesting idea... I'd like to add another thought to the topic of variability... if we're talking about a sub-model, perhaps it should include more creatures that hate each other, like ifrits-djinns, angels-djinns, etc... This would further increase the importance of scouting. And, for example, if it's advantageous to go for Fortress units in 90% of cases when attacking a castle on the map, giving that castle a good advantage, then the opponent could build a counter to the Fortress units through a non-standard build using Inferno and, say, dogs...

In my opinion, creating a new version just to fix some illusory issue is pointless. It's better to make a good map from the start. Test it thoroughly and then release it. By "thoroughly test," I mean that it really needs to be tested well, not just tested for half an hour and then uploaded to the forum after playing it once.

Well, that's basically it.

2StickyFingaz

The overall idea is correct. However, perhaps everything is a bit mixed up.
Faster and more dynamic gameplay is one thing, and development variability is another. These things are not directly related.

Development variability, as one of the components of tactical diversity, is in itself a necessary thing in any game. In fact, this was one of the main goals during the development of the game, along with balancing.
Changing the building tree in the Castles is one of the ways to move in this direction. At first glance, this looks attractive, but specific implementation examples need to be considered. Perhaps a single change to the tree will not be enough; it may also be necessary to change the bonuses.

Now about the game time. The advantages of fixes in this aspect are clear: the ability to balance with a smaller map size (this problem is also solved by a mirrored template), reducing the number of guards of neutral objects, and, consequently, the number of battles with these guards.
It should also be noted that the reduction in game time is limited not only by the problems of map balance and low variability with a small size, but also by the features of the hero's adventure gameplay. The fewer turns a game takes, the more significant the impact of the first turn on its outcome. From this point of view, it is logical to reduce the time of one turn (by reducing the number of battles with neutrals, and possibly reducing the number of heroes), rather than the total number of turns.

However, the topic of map selection can be developed. As an example, the PoC map is proposed because it has an element of randomness: random starting positions. That is, the idea is to combine the advantages of fixes and random maps. But there can be more random elements on the map. For example, random objects from a certain set in certain points on the map. From a technical point of view, this is quite feasible. It is also possible to give random properties to the objects themselves.

In practice, all this can look like a set of scripts that are enabled by a checkbox in the map options.

In general, first, it is necessary to develop specific options for the building tree scheme for at least a couple of Castles, script it, and test it. I can help with scripting if the options seem interesting to me.

In my opinion, making a new version for some illusory fix is nonsense. It is better to make a good map.

We are talking more about adjusting the gameplay for small maps, rather than for any specific fixes.

It looks too difficult, and it won’t be easy to develop this further.

It looks too difficult, and it won't be easy to develop it further.

Is it difficult to create or difficult to learn?
If it's the first, then creating a good fix is difficult in itself.
If it's the second, then it all depends on the result – whether it would be worth learning.
The same can be said about promotion. If the gameplay turns out to be interesting, there will be those who want to play. Or do you expect a world championship right away?

What is really difficult is to predict the result in advance without trying. And playing one game for 10 hours is also difficult.

The map itself is interesting; does anyone play it? I looked at it in the editor and played it a bit in single-player. In my opinion, it's better to play on Hard difficulty and spend at least 15 hours, rather than on Easy, where scouting takes only 2-3 days, and there are a minimum number of islands, objects, and options. Regarding the idea of creating a sub-mod with such fixes, I'm all for it! I want something new, but it's unclear what to base it on. For now, it's just the Dungeon and fast dragons, but I'd like to see a complete picture for all castles so that we can gradually adjust it. Perhaps we should announce a contest; maybe someone will come up with something.

Does anyone play it?

I

Leka, where is the scouting, it will take 2-3 days.

Well, firstly, we are talking about Might and Magic. Secondly, you can create such a gold balance on the map that buying a simple scout will significantly affect the economy. By the way, about the birds, you can reduce the time to build a monument (and, accordingly, the capital), for example, through a pre-built monument. Thus, a player who uses such a build will have a significant advantage in the economy, but will lose 2 days of tempo, and there will be a map where a couple of days of tempo can be decisive.

I want something new, but it's not clear what to base it on.

Well, you can think about this for a long time, and you can start, for example, by reducing the number of Points of Control to Might and Magic and filling it with interesting quests and changing the building tree depending on the map. Or change the map depending on the changed tree. And, of course, don't forget about the heroes

And what about WoG with commanders? Jokes aside, there are many new and diverse features. You just need to know how to use them.

I would recommend taking a look at the Yona mod http://wforum.heroes35.net/showthread.php?tid=3517
Thanks to Berserker, installing such a mod is not difficult – Era2 is installed on the SoD (which does not affect the original game), and the mod is added to it; the mod is launched through Era. This mod can also be completely customized to suit your needs.

Among the additional features of Era, one can note the calculation of the number of creatures that can be killed when assessing damage, a rather adequate reaction of the AI to the innovations, custom buttons, fixing various bugs, and much more.

Regarding build orders, you need to think very carefully, and especially about 3-4, it is unlikely that such diversity will be possible; at most, I think it is 3. Unless, of course, some other restrictions are introduced, for example, no more than 3 buildings can be built in a city per week; then, even if there is a branching, for example, from elves, you can build lumber mills or pegasus stables, the player will have to make a choice based on the intended goals for the current week.

Regarding water, I have long had a suggestion to make the sailing distance 1.5-2 times longer than it is now, because it is strange that ships sail slower on the sea than an army crawling on land; in Heroes 1500, a ship has a speed of 1500 per day, and speed 4 has 1560, i.e., even the slowest units in the army can travel further than the sea wind, not even mentioning landing/unloading. I would generally suggest making landing/unloading dependent on the size of the army, and the exchange of the hero with the ship should also be taken into account.

...how long ago did we all forget about the presence of water in Heroes! Anyway, the map is cool...

:smile12:

Yes, and only the sailing skill and the captain's hat remind us of past adventures.
Add-ons are an interesting thing, but not very popular.

...It's better to make a good map...

I would gladly play in a "Pirate" tournament with a choice of 5 different sizes and compositions of sailing maps (for example, 2 M, 2 L, and 1 XL), and maybe a successful map will be found and will participate in every tournament.

Who would like to play Pirates of the Caribbean (WT)? Contact me on ICQ - 614755496.

:smile12:
I would gladly play in a "Pirate" tournament with a selection of 5 different sizes and compositions of nautical maps (for example, 2 M, 2 L, and XL), and maybe I'll find a good map that will participate in every tournament.

Here you can have a nice swim - Seven Lakes 1.2

A couple of years ago, we played random maps with islands on a local Krasnoyarsk portal, and we probably played about 10 games. The impressions were positive. In my opinion, one of the advantages is that everyone has their own island, continent, and country. The variations with exchanging main heroes and treasures are interesting – the treasure island is a separate island, but it might be problematic to break out from the treasure island.

It would be interesting to play a tournament on maps with water where everyone has their own island.

Stikky, I want a tournament))

P.S. Britva, are you still alive?)). How is your friend with the three-letter name doing? :) wlk, if you still remember him).