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Offline zoog
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#2904
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What’s not clear here? It’s screenshots of your own and enemy heroes, garrisons, and locations. The map in aerial view mode is a good map. It’s a pity there isn’t a program for automatically taking and stitching together screenshots. In the editor, you create your hero with troops and, let’s say, a Guard Tower, and then you see how the battle unfolds and what the losses are.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#2905
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What is this all about? Opening a save file from an unfinished game is unacceptable!!! And it doesn't matter under what pretext. If you allow opening saves, thinking, trying out chains, etc., you can go to absurd lengths. There is a ban on opening saves, and it must be adhered to. Pit is completely right.
Tootsie Pie
On the other hand, using screenshots and simulating capturing cons in the editor, etc., no one would object to that, right?
I do that too. And I consider it a normal part of the game. For example, I can screenshot the ground/air view and think about it in a relaxed setting. Or, for example, if I see a con on the respawn, then at the moment of postponing, I can create a test map in the editor with the cons, my hero, and an approximate army, and test whether I can take a three-stack or only a two-stack... This is within the rules.

Tootsie Pie
It's a pity there isn't a program for automatically capturing and stitching screenshots))
I use the program screenc. It immediately saves images in jpg format to a specified folder. Make yourself 100 of them, and look at them as much as you want.
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Offline zoog
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#2906
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Oelm
chains are counted cell by cell
is this without moving to the next day and without planning a route (marking with the left mouse button)? Otherwise, it's 90% cheating.

Added 7 minutes later
by the way, share your experience, please - how
any noob with three angels, healing, and full mana and ones takes the Consul level 3
?? My 1 angel dies on the 3rd turn (in the corner, of course). And with morale, even on the first turn - two)
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Offline Lider1
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#2907
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There should be some parameters there as well.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline zoog
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#2908
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where?
123123123
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#2909
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Dirty_Player


1. "...What is this even about? Opening a save of an unfinished game is unacceptable!!!..".

2. "...I do the same. And I consider it a normal gameplay moment. For example, I can take a screenshot of the ground/air overview and think in a calm environment. Or, for instance, if I see a Griffin Conservatory on respawn, then during the postponement I can create a test map in the editor with Griffin Conservatories, my hero, and an approximate army to test whether I can take tier 3 or only tier 2... This is within the rules...".



And what is the difference between Kostya's "opening" itself and taking various screenshots? Do you see a fundamental difference? I don't.

I have never used save opening to remember.
My opinion is that there is no need for such viewing, but if an opponent wants to — let them use it.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Oelm
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#2910
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Konstantin, I don't think you understand...

And what about the post about the 3 angels? That definitely wasn't my post.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#2911
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Dubrovin Pavel
What is the difference between Kostya "analyzing" the situation and taking various screenshots? Do you see a fundamental difference? I don't.

I agree with Pavel. In official tournaments, I always paid attention to how the judges handled such cases.

And regarding
Pit for LM

To "refresh his memory," it is usually considered good practice for a player who loads a game after a break to give his opponent time to look at the situation and only then pass the turn.
again, I don't see a fundamental difference between this and loading a save in private. Anyone who wants to cheat will not be stopped by anything, no matter how silly the bans are.

In general, I am against such things, but if a match drags on for a longer period than the amount of my RAM (about 3-4 days...):)), I think it is necessary to take a break and refresh my memory, because I have already lost a bunch of matches in which I simply lost track of the game after saving.
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Offline scorp
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#2912
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Load the save and recall the situation (but without taking any actions) – yes, it’s possible, especially if the game was paused. Even before continuing the match, I would ask about this to ensure the opponent doesn’t just wait for me to type (pass the turn, remembered what I wanted, etc.). But if the game is already ongoing, it only benefits the player who thinks less during their turn. Another question is about trust. It’s like in chess – why do they sit and think for so long? There is certainly an advantage, but it’s not that significant.
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Offline AYMAN
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#2913
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scorp
It is possible to load a save and recall the situation (but without taking any actions) – yes, it’s possible, especially if the game was paused. Even before continuing the match, I would ask about this to ensure that the opponent doesn’t just wait for me to write (pass the turn, remembered what I wanted, etc.). But if the game is already ongoing, it only works if the opponent thinks less during their turn.

Another question is trust.

It’s like in chess – why do they sit and think for so long? There is certainly an advantage, but it’s not that significant.

Misha, it seems you only have a superficial knowledge of chess. There is such a thing as “time trouble,” and it’s a significant advantage. When your opponent is playing almost in blitz mode, and you are thinking normally and continuing to strategize.


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Offline scorp
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#2914
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we're heading in the wrong direction a bit)).

if I sit down to play chess, give me a month to think about each move against a Candidate Master's 3 minutes for the whole game (even :D), so this thinking time is relative.

P.S. this is a question from the same repertoire... pouring a lot will lead to philosophy)), it's not worth breaking your head over it (some people have enough RAM to play chess without it - I heard it myself:D).
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Offline zoog
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#2915
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Why do some versions of the game have single-sided teleporters, while others don't?

Added 5 minutes later
Oelm, I read that in the thread about the last World Cup... I guess it was referring to specific scouts from a specific game, but even with parameters of 5 5 5 5, I can't imagine it
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Offline R55Max
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#2916
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If you're playing against a KMS player and you're weak, then yes, it might be an issue. But we're also considering the situation where players are roughly equal in skill in Heroes. Moreover, even a noticeably weaker player can beat a stronger one with a more favorable outcome, which often negates skill, something that's impossible in chess, where everyone starts on equal footing, except for the color.

I see two reasons why viewing save files shouldn't be allowed, while screenshots are:
1. First, there's a timer, and it's not always possible to take the same screenshot because almost every game has turns that end in the last 10 seconds. Plus, you also need to find a suitable location for the screenshot if it's not just a map overview. Viewing the map (opening the save file) is a non-game situation, not during the game, while a screenshot is taken during the game's time limit and is part of the player's actions during the game.

2. If we theorize, ideally, save files should be stored on an independent server to eliminate the possibility of cheating altogether and only load them during player connection. If they were stored there, it wouldn't be possible to open them in free time outside the game.

P.S. Regarding long games: I think a save file lifespan limit of 3 months should be introduced for seasonal games so they don't accumulate. And games that have been played a while ago and are well-remembered can be easily restored with an 8-minute timer while the opponent is passing their turn, which has become a more significant factor compared to 6 minutes.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Oelm
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#2917
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Actually, in chess, there used to be a practice of adjourning games. It's interesting what someone who would prohibit analyzing adjourned games would think about a person's mental health. :D Gentlemen, you've eaten something that didn't agree with you. (and why don't we have an emoji for vomiting?)

=======================================================

But seriously. I don't think I'm in the majority here, but I genuinely enjoy it when an opponent plays as well as possible. And if a game is adjourned, I'm even happy if they come up with something they probably wouldn't have done under time pressure, and conversely, it's unpleasant when an opponent starts to play poorly because they couldn't look at the save beforehand. And those who happily write about victories because a player crashed or violated the rules of Ranked Play make me feel nauseous.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Offline R55Max
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#2918
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Oelm
Actually, in chess there used to be a practice of adjourning games. I wonder what they would think about the mental health of a person who would ban the analysis of adjourned games. :D Gentlemen, you've been eating something you shouldn't have. (and why don't we have a vomiting smiley?)
The essence of adjourning a game in chess was to allow a person to regain strength due to exhausting, lengthy games, not so that a player could spend another week thinking about the best move after adjournment. As for giving the opponent time to remember and make a move after a long pause in the game, I don't recall anyone being against it.
By the way, chess players have the entire board in front of them, and almost all of them, even not particularly strong players, can accurately play games of 60 moves or more with closed eyes over the phone, possess phenomenal memory, and can reconstruct even childhood games from memory with extremely high accuracy, so there was no point in banning the reconstruction of the last left position in a game, because that would be a laughingstock:) They simply did not have more than one or two adjourned games (not counting master classes for beginners), since they rested, finished, and started a new one. So the human brain is strong; strain it, and it will pay off. 8 minutes is enough to remember everything.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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