Round table — Online Tournaments

Dirty_Player

14 years ago

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Attention, Heroes fans, especially those from Siberia! Next weekend (October 22nd), a gathering will take place in the glorious city of Novokuznetsk. The program includes socializing, a feast, poker, and maybe even a game of Heroes! :)
Everyone is welcome! For any questions, contact me on ICQ (408722873) or Valenka (561072253). We'll have the full lineup of the Siberian crew. We'd be happy to see new faces. ;)

In reply to Dirty_Player

d-neez

14 years ago

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Maybe this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the search... On the Polish website legendyheroes.pl, in the downloads section, along with files like cranim.txt, HDmod, etc., there's a file called objects.txt.

Objects.txt - contains all objects in HoMM3. This one is without obelisks, cartographers, hill forts (thanks to that, regulations are shortened), keysmaster's tents, and border guards; it adds crypts on lava, wastelands, and undergrounds. Put it in the Heroes IIIData directory.

As I understand it, it removes obelisks, cartographers, hill forts, and keysmasters from the generation, and distributes their value to more useful things, adding crypts to lava. I'm curious about our experienced players' opinion on this file: is it worth playing with, why isn't it in our "Useful info: templates, maps, programs" thread, etc.? It seems like a useful thing, as no one takes obelisks anyway, or they'll give one player 2 provisions and the other a hill fort with the same value. Will the generations be more balanced? Or have everyone gotten used to playing with the standard content, and the volume of the new content will somehow feel unfamiliar for the game? Something like that.)

In reply to d-neez

R55Max

14 years ago

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d-neez

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I didn't find anything in the search... on the Polish site legendyheroes.pl, in the download section, alongside cranim.txt files, HDmod and so on, there is an objects.txt file

Objects.txt - contains all objects in HoMM3. This one is without obelisks, cartographer, hill fort (thanks to that, regulations are shortened), keysmaster's tents and border guards; adds crypts on lava, wastelands and undergrounds. Put in Heroes IIIData directory.

As I understand it, it removes obelisks, cartographers, hill forts, and keymasters from generation, redistributes their value to more useful things, and adds crypts to lava. I'm interested in the opinion of our experienced players regarding this file: is it worth playing with? Why isn't it in our "Useful info: templates, maps, programs" thread and so on? It seems like a useful thing; no one takes obelisks anyway, or one person gets 2 cans while another gets a hill fort for the same value. Will generations be more balanced? Or is everyone used to playing with the standard content, and the volume of new content would feel unfamiliar for the game? Well, something like that )

The point is clear, but if you remove everything unnecessary and leave only what's needed on the map, it might create a situation where no one meets until everyone has collected everything. In Heroes itself, it is precisely the lack of this or that which prompts action, which different castles rely on—the variability in distribution.

If everyone collects everything they need quickly (equal-skill players), then in principle, everything will essentially become a mirror match. And that is not SoD. In WT, perhaps, this would be understandable...

And generally, I consider the destruction of the Hill Fort as a unit to be unjustified. Because it's entirely possible to use it if the corresponding building is constructed in a controlled castle. Thus, one can even somehow compete with or surprise heroes who have control using "uncontrolled" heroes. For example, having a long chain and having the main hero at the powerful end of that chain, with a hill fort nearby, you can buy and upgrade (purchased troops in your own castles).
Suppose on 117, while staying at a respectful distance from home, I spend the night. On 121, I upgrade uniques, buy up growth, pass them along the chain, upgrade 2 from the 1st week, and put them into 1 stack. Seems fair and tempo-efficient.

In reply to d-neez

Dirty_Player

14 years ago

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d-neez

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the search... The Polish website legendyheroes.pl has a file called objects.txt in the download section, along with files like cranim.txt and HDmod.

I don't know about other players, but I have a strongly negative attitude towards using text files. Besides this text file, foreigners also use others (for example, to remove captain's hats and the ability to walk on water). This abundance of these text files leads to various controversial situations. For example, we're playing, I choose Inferno. Skeletons are generated on lava for me, I get a bonus, and you file a protest, which is quite justified. If cranim.txt is harmless, the other text files will only create more controversial situations. For those who like upgrades, there's WT. IMHO.

d-neez

14 years ago

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Okay, thank you, the situation is now clear.

In reply to d-neez

YummiGummi

14 years ago

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d-neez

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I didn’t find it in the search... on the Polish site legendyheroes.pl, in the download section, along with files like cranim.txt, HDmod, and such, there is a file called objects.txt

Objects.txt - contains all objects in HoMM3. This one is without obelisks, cartographer, hill fort (thanks to that, regulations are shortened), keysmaster's tents and border guards; adds crypts on lava, wastelands and undergrounds. Put in Heroes IIIData directory.

As I understand it, it removes obelisks, cartographers, hill forts, keymasters from generation, and redistributes their value to more useful things, adding crypts on lava. I’m curious about the attitude of our experienced players toward this file—is it worth playing with it, why isn’t it in our "Useful info: templates, maps, programs" thread and such? It seems like a useful thing; no one takes obelisks anyway, or it gives one player two conservatories and another a hill fort for the same value—would the generations be more balanced? Or is everyone just used to the standard content, and the amount of new content would feel unfamiliar for gameplay? Well, something like that )

I’ve been playing with this text file for a very long time. You answered your own question. It removes really superfluous and unnecessary stuff, which is good. I recommend giving it a try!

To Max,
If you haven’t tried using this text file, that’s no reason to call it WT-ification! There’s absolutely nothing in common with that; give it a try—it’s very convenient and a worthwhile thing!

To Dirty,
I wonder, what other complaints could there be against opponents for Inferno/Stronghold, that crypts now generate on their spawns with this text file? I think that’s nonsense. There’s no advantage in this, especially since crypts generate everywhere for the other towns too!

X-Word folks, first try this text file, and then talk!!!

In reply to Dirty_Player

Дубровин Павел

14 years ago

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Dirty_Player

I don't know about other players, but I have a strongly negative attitude towards using text files. Besides this text file, foreigners also use others (for example, files that remove captain's hats and allow walking on water). So, due to the large number of these text files, various controversial situations arise. For example, we're playing, I chose Inferno. I generated dungeons on lava, I received a bonus, and you filed a protest, which is quite fair. If cranim.txt is harmless, then the other text files will only create more controversial situations. For those who like upgrades, there's WT. IMHO.

I agree with Kostya...

In reply to Dirty_Player

rebellious

14 years ago

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Dirty_Player

I don't know about other players, but my attitude towards using text files is sharply negative. Besides this text file, foreigners also use others (for example, ones that remove captain's hats and water walking). So, from the great abundance of these text files, various kinds of controversial situations arise. For example, we're playing each other, I chose Inferno. Crypts spawned for me on lava, I got a bonus, you filed a protest, and quite justifiably. If cranim.txt is harmless, then the other text files will only breed controversial situations. For upgrade lovers, there is WT. IMHO.

It looks quite strange, actually: you're tinkering around in SoD, and we'll decide for ourselves in WT what's better :rolleyes:
HoMM (as has been noted repeatedly) is a big construction set. A modified text file will work the same way in both SoD and WT. Why should some be deprived of the joy of building whatever they want, while others are not? Since they removed sea from generations, they deprived some castles of the ability to build shipyards, and this could be a very key building and changes the overall value of a town.
Why would I need the Keymaster Tents on the Jebus Cross template? Especially when I see a Utopia behind a keymaster, and the needed tent is with my opponent, and I can only reach my opponent by killing at least two ГО. Or why would I need the same Hill Fort and Cartographer on the respawn, which consume a lot of value, while my opponent will have them filled with Dragon Fly Hives.
And cranim.txt is far from harmless. We use it for the sake of saving time. Although this little file really changes the battle picture.
Text files need to be used. Smartly and skillfully. Customized to your liking, just as foreigners do. And those who are afraid or don't know how will naturally shy away and deny it.
The only problem could be that some crazy player might draw hypothetical bonuses in a text file. But this could happen in both SoD and WT. You can get rid of persecution mania, for example, by creating a generation using an independent host located on a neutral server.:smile04:

Sevensan

14 years ago

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I think it's worth trying this text file, but with a few changes. Here's why:
Using the Hill Fort is prohibited – what's the point of having it then? (I think Max's statement about the Fort is nonsense. Either allow it or remove it completely). The same applies to other objects like tents. If these files are used, the probability of "randomness" will be minimized, and there won't be unnecessary elements like "he got lucky, he has 8 hives, and I have 1." It will be the players' skill that decides, not luck, which is undoubtedly a good thing.
The same goes for Artifacts. You removed the water, so why have the Captain's Hat and Boots of Levitation there? If you remove the water, remove the hats as well. The player made an effort, took the Utopia, and they gave him a complete set of seafaring items... I think taking the Utopia early should be rewarded with good artifacts, not just random junk.
I would keep the obelisks. Removing the Grail from the game, in my opinion, is not a good idea.

In reply to Sevensan

R55Max

14 years ago

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Sevensan

I think it's worth trying this text file, perhaps with a few changes. Here is my reasoning -
The use of the Heal Fort is banned — then what the hell is it for? (What Max said about the fort I consider nonsense. Either allow it or remove it entirely). Same goes for other objects like tents. If these files are used, the probability of "randomness" will be minimized and there won't be unnecessary clutter like "he got lucky, he has 8 hives and I have 1". Player skill will decide, not luck, which is undoubtedly a good thing.

The same applies to artifacts. You removed the water, SO WHY THE HELL are the Captain's Hat and Boots of Levitation still there??? If you remove the water, remove the hats too. A person put in the effort, took the Dragon Utopia, and they were given a full sailor's kit... I believe taking the Dragon Utopia early should be rewarded with proper artifacts and not some junk.

I would leave the obelisks. In my opinion, removing the Grail from the game is not very good.

Don't you think you're talking nonsense yourself? I don't see any absurdity here. What EXACTLY is the NONSENSE? Did I really say things that are inconsistent or unacceptable? Explain why it is bad (wrong, absurd) to upgrade troops purchased in your own Castle when an upgraded building has been constructed?

Sevensan

14 years ago

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If you need an explanation as to why that's nonsense, I'll explain. Initially, the Fortress was designed to improve its creatures WITHOUT building an upgrade structure. And that was the point, and that's why it has great value! Why would I upgrade creatures in the Fortress when, by the time they're ready, it's unlikely I'll even need to upgrade them from there? It doesn't give any tempo advantage, if we're going by what you said. But upgrading a creature on the first level – that's tempo.

In reply to Sevensan

R55Max

14 years ago

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Sevensan

If you need me to explain why it's nonsense, I will. Initially, the Fortress was created with the goal of improving its creatures WITHOUT building an upgrade structure. And that was the point, and that's why it has great value! Why would I upgrade creatures in the Fortress when, by the time they're stationed there, it's unlikely that upgrading them from THERE will be worthwhile? It doesn't give any tempo advantage, if we refer to your words. But upgrading a creature on the FIRST level – that's TEMPO.

Then remember what the purpose of water, the Hat, and the whole game in its original form was.

It's as if you haven't played the game for more than two weeks? In any week, in any place, a healing Fortress can be useful, even in a battle of noobs, so you can teleport later. Please don't talk nonsense. This is objectively a normal part of the game that has been destroyed, which is just not familiar.

In reply to Sevensan

Snooppy

14 years ago

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Sevensan

You removed the water, BUT WHY is there a captain's hat and levitation boots there??? If you remove the water, remove the hats too.

+100500! It makes sense. Why create additional imbalance in an already imbalanced Stronghold? Bring back the water for maximum enjoyment! :smile04:

In reply to Snooppy

R55Max

14 years ago

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Snooppy

+100500! It makes sense. Why introduce additional imbalance into an already imbalanced HotA? Bring back the water for even more enjoyment! :smile04:

What are you talking about? There was never any "extra" enjoyment (at least not in normal reality). Confirming and repeating established rules doesn't require logic. But justifying the illogicality of proposed suggestions is a different matter.

What do you mean by imbalance? It seems that this concept is not considered in HotA under the current Hv rules; perhaps you should post in the VT forum.

Sevensan

14 years ago

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There's no point in arguing with you. I said what I said, you said what you said, and that's where we'll leave it. However, my arguments are logical, and there's no basis for yours. P.S. Honestly, I don't even understand what you want. A Fortress? I don't care about your Fortress. We're talking about the object.txt file.

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