Posts from - Comparison of creatures from Heroes 5 with creatures in Heroes 3.

No offense to anyone, but Jack and Sylvannus are the only ones in this thread who have a SOBER look at both sets of units. I won't go into lengthy explanations, so I'll be brief:
1. Goblins are a failure in both games. In Heroes 3, they're like some college students, which is not typical for them; in Heroes 5, they're the complete opposite of the concept of "goblin" (they're supposed to BREAK mechanisms, not fix them:)).
2. Zombies and skeletons... Come on... Are you really trying to find a handsome guy among the ugly ones? :D
3. Gargoyles. As Sylvannus rightly pointed out, they are NOT a MYTHOLOGICAL CREATURE. You can find them in our real world by visiting Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, for example. And you know what they look like? They look like STATUES. Which is what they originally are. If I were creating gargoyles, I would make them look like the gargoyles from the animated movie of the same name (the movie itself is mediocre, but the legends about gargoyles and Western European mythology are described quite well).
4. Vampires. Guys, be realistic. In Heroes 3, they're not even vampires, but some kind of ghouls. Take a ghoul from Warcraft 3, put a bathrobe on it, and you get the same thing! A vampire is not necessarily an aristocrat. They have their own separate world, which is quite well reflected in the "Hellsing" series.
5. Titans. If you compare the titan from Heroes 3 and the titan from Heroes 5, you get two incomplete parts of something, roughly speaking, "cool." Take the titan from Heroes 5 (without the dangling things on its arms), put the armor of the titan from Heroes 3 on it (without the sword), and you get the PERFECT titan! Which, with its heavy gait, terrifies enemies! Which ANNIHILATES enemies with a clumsy movement of its hand, unleashing the wrath of Zeus upon the unfortunate ones! Imagine how that would look! However, as sad as it is, the titan simply DOES NOT fit into the Eastern theme. Something Roman-Western is needed here, approximately as it was in Heroes 3, but with more emphasis on Greece.

It didn't turn out to be brief, but frankly, I don't care:). Anyway, all of this is a big, fat IMHO.

P.S. Almost forgot - djinns:). I don't know about you, but I like them in both games, but that's just my personal opinion, although the djinns from Heroes 3, despite their similarity to the character from "Aladdin," are more consistent with the image of a djinn from Arabian tales than the "flying axe-head" from Heroes 5:D.

they are actually supposed to BREAK mechanisms, not fix them:)

That's for sure:)
While we're at it, let's recall the Halloween episode of The Simpsons where a gremlin chased Bart...:)
By the way, I've always wondered when they first appeared in European demonology... Does anyone happen to know?

As for the djinns - that's a matter of taste:) I don't like either of them; I would have made them: first, evil, and second, looking less like a human and more like some semi-formless dark silhouette surrounded by fast-spinning clouds of sand and dust streams of wind...
How else should an evil desert spirit that summons sandstorms look?!

But I understand that the image of a helpful good djinn really took hold in the souls of Europeans since around the 18th century (when Arabic tales appeared in Europe); although, actually, this help of his is just like the help of a demon in Russian folk tales.

Djinn are malicious desert spirits, not blue guys (and even less so blue women). The fact that they've lost their heads is bad, of course, but in their legend it's enough to just

Well, first of all, in Arabic tales they talk actively; there are mentions of how they maliciously roll their eyes and such... clearly if they've lost their heads, it's not yet in the literal sense.
And generally, if you look into the mythology, it's not even a fact that characters from Arabic tales can exist at the same time as characters from classical Celtic fantasy mythology. So there's no need to be so meticulous... And zombies, by the way, are not European characters at all. They are a "product" of African voodoo sorcerers, so let's make the Necromancer hero a black man then: "ears apart, ring in the nose...":confused:
These very djinn from Arabic mythology, by the way, could not obey anyone for a long time — chaotic-evil psychopaths ready to turn against their master at any moment. The Djinn from "Aladdin's Magic Lamp" is a huuuuge exception, and that's exactly why he's so popular: he's unnaturally fluffy. That's how most people imagine djinn. A hyped image. By the way, I really liked the composure of the djinn in the 3rd part. But these ones from the 5th always cause me vague doubts: what is he doing under that hat? And generally: WHY DOES A HEADLESS PERSON NEED A HAT???:confused:

Titans are actually forces of chaos (hello to Heroes 4), they are immortal (hello to all heroes from 2), they have nothing to do with lightning (again, hello to all heroes from 2).

Yes, and then they should be removed as a unit altogether. They truly cannot obey anyone. They are more than gods. To hell with mythology, but in Heroes 3 they were beautiful, like Achilles or Hector, while here you either need to take them to a hairdresser or ground them for safety's sake.:eek:

Gargoyles — this is even simpler — look at any gothic cathedral and be convinced that in neither 3 nor 5 is a gargoyle actually a gargoyle. And it's not even a mythical monster.

By the way, I was very unpleasanty surprised back then by the move of gargoyles from the Warlocks' castle (2nd) to the mages' castle. A gothic character with a malicious smirk — what kind of forces of good are these!:eek:
And yet in Heroes 2, gargoyles look like the gargoyles of Notre Dame. What is absolutely certain is that they aren't sitting hugging a slab anywhere. Especially not a slab inscribed with runes!!! Gothic, my foot!:mad:

Vampire... folks, if not with a sword, how will he pierce the armor of, say, a knight? With teeth? Then he'll have to go to the dentist... if he even can after being beaten with a sword:D He should clearly be given some kind of magic strike then, like in 4.

Well yes... but vampires also cannot live in sunlight. For plausibility, it should be done this way: if a hero with vampires in the army comes out, say, from a dungeon, all the vampires in his army turn to dust! (like in BG2 with dark elf armor made of adamantine... everything by the letter of mythology!):D And since they sleep off the day in cozy coffins, they bite at night... when even paladins are lying in their nightgowns, resting after the daytime handicap. :p

What is samurai about him:confused: I racked my brain over this for a long time, only found a black ponytail. There is NOTHING samurai about the vampire in 5. It seems, Magnus, you should also read some history books:)

No, really, he looks like an ancient Japanese illustration. That's there. The face is... narrow... and the eyes are drawn that way too. Look at old illustrations for Japanese tales.
Although in principle — I'm fine with such a vampire. He hisses colorfully.:p

The vampires there are some kind of monstrosities. Some crazy mix of our Slavic upyr and a Western European literary character.

But in Heroes 2 they were somewhat funny. As if according to mythology, vampires were exclusively counts of the Dracula lineage... Here, however, they run around way too lively. And in 3 — at first they truly horrified, then I even liked them... such bloodless cripples, shaking with hatred for everything living... Besides, unupgraded vampires from 3 are a clear reference to the legendary "Nosferatu" with Max Schreck, the first classic vampire film.

The angels there are just some kind of horror, not angels (damn, I'm tired of proving why — see my posts in the discussion of the lvl 7 unit in Heroes 5). And they die in a non-angelic way.

Well-well... actually the angels there are very classic! But the archangels are just a joke... Uncle Zeus without pants.

Zombies there are also ugly. In 5 it's no better and no worse than in 3.

And I absolutely loved the butcher knife... it's even a shame that upgraded zombies traded it for some kind of hoe. :(

Gremlins in 3 are unclear who they are, in 5 at least they look like characters from the movie:)

Now that's exactly it — associations with a movie are not good! Call this fantasy!
And generally, they look like Master Yoda here. Pfft.

Archer elves in 3 are more attractive, but it's not fundamental.

But the ears in 5... the ears!!! That's just too much. A dialogue from "The Lord of the Rings" comes to mind:
"- These are not orcs, - said another, releasing the hilt of the sword he had grasped upon seeing Tern in Frodo's hand.
- Maybe elves? - tentatively uttered a third.
- No! These are not elves, - noted the fourth, the tallest and, judging by his posture, their leader. - Elves no longer enter Ithilien. Moreover, as is known, elves are a people of wondrous beauty.
- Seems we haven't surprised you with our beauty, - said Sam. - Thank you for the kind word."

Golems... hard to say. In 3 they were made by very stupid mages who were too lazy to put weapons in their hands, in 5 they were made by hacks, and apparently not without the help of glue (I mean glue for making a golem, not for stimulating the creative process; although mages in 5 might use it for that too;))

Golems in turbans — agree, that's brutal! I've seen many fantasy RPGs — by the way, golems were never given weapons anywhere. Why do they need weapons if they are made of iron/stone etc.? A blow from a granite fist will put even a paladin to rest.:rolleyes:

Peasants are better; although they aren't beauties — far from beauties:) — but still not ragamuffins crying at every step (that's just too much).

Yes... the cry-babies left a feeling of deep bewilderment for a long time.
And generally — M&M 7, released back then, greatly contributed to the units from 3 becoming like family... When I remember the brawl with the djinn there — ugh, they aren't funny at all!
Anyway, arguing about tastes is an unproductive matter...:rolleyes:

Added after 11 minutes

nwc only managed to make great heroes from the 3rd time (not counting a bunch of add-ons).... let's wait for at least two from Nival!!!!!!!

I apologize, but are you even aware that since around 1998 everyone played HoMM2 obsessively? It was a cult game. Do you think it's impossible to play such a thing — the pixels prick the eye? No matter, everything was drawn like that then. Back then, no matter whose house you visited — everyone sat and fought in the 2nd in hot-seat mode.
And this despite the fact that much required obvious refinement (especially the magic system).
But as for atmosphere... it was a fairy tale.:rolleyes: Those who started with HoMM2 will understand me 100%.

And in general: WHY DOES A HEADLESS CREATURE NEED A HAT???:confused:

It's obvious:) To somehow cover the absence of a head:) But in general, you could sue the Nival artist for beheading:

Yes, and then they should be removed as a unit altogether.

Well, actually, they could be; by the way, according to mythology, there were only 12 of them. I would definitely remove the Archangel (there are only 7 of them according to Christianity) - since Christianity is a living religion, some may be offended by such a belittling of archangels... I myself am embarrassed by their low power...
Also - to conclude this topic - I would finally correctly translate Devil - not devil, but demon! There is only one devil, and he is so powerful that he can destroy the entire map in one fell swoop! By the way, some may not know, but in Christianity, the devil is the fallen archangel Sataniel...

By the way, I was very unpleasantly surprised by the transfer of gargoyles from the Warlock castle (2nd game) to the magic castle.

Me too:mad:
And on the gargoyle's plate, by the way, is the Greek letter psi! It's already annoying me on my psych faculty... we use it all the time for abbreviation...

Well, yes... but vampires also can't live in sunlight. Then, for the sake of plausibility, it should be done like this: if a hero with vampires in his army comes out, say, from a Dungeon, then all the vampires in his army turn to dust! (as it was in BG2 with the dark elf armor made of adamantine... everything according to mythology!):D And since they sleep during the day in cozy coffins, they bite at night... when even paladins are lying in their nightgowns, resting after the daytime handicap. :p

Well, we have a strategy game, not a role-playing game or a literary work:...

But in the 2nd Heroes, they were a bit funny.

Yes, that's true:D I'm especially impressed that they swear when they attack...:)

And in general, they look like Master Yoda here.

That makes it even more enjoyable to kill them:) By the way, they also possess the Force - they repair things from a distance!:D

But the ears in the 5th game... the ears!!! That's too much.

After the third Warcraft, no ears will scare me:D But in general, I agree - let's stop making elves a mix of humans and donkeys!:mad:

Why do they need weapons if they are made of iron/stone, etc.?

Because the impact force will be much greater. Simple physics. The same reason why a kilogram of stone will not damage your hand (well, it won't damage it very much:)), and a needle, weighing much less, will pierce it through. The impact area is reduced. If the mages are all such rationalists, then they should have calculated this

Yes, that exists :D I was especially impressed that they swear when they attack... :)

:D :D :D
I just remembered that now!
Or they swear, or they, excuse me, feel nauseous... :D

:)Maybe:) Blood isn't tasty:D Especially from gargoyles and golems... and what about zombies...:D
Anyway, I don't want to be a vampire!

By the way, about zombies...
In my opinion, in Heroes 3, vampires in the Necropolis faction didn't regenerate, and necromancers couldn't create skeletons from them. But in Heroes 5, it's all somehow wrong. Let's then allow them to drain life from mechanical units...and create skeletons from them. Obsidian or iron ones.

I actually liked that. It just depends on what vampires drink from their victims – if it's blood, then they shouldn't be able to regenerate from undead. But if it's life force... then it's very possible! After all, something must be making that skeleton move :) If it's magic, then why shouldn't they be able to drink that magic?
In short, since we don't know much about necromancy (probably:)), it's hard to judge.

I actually liked it. It just depends on what vampires drink from their victims - if it's blood, then, of course, they shouldn't regenerate from corpses. But if it's life force... then it's quite possible! After all, something must be making this skeleton move :) If it's magic, then why not drink that magic?
In short, since we don't understand necromancy very well (probably:)), it's hard to judge.

I didn't like it....In the 3rd game, all undead, like mechanical creatures (golems, machines), are non-living beings, and even if they are animated with magic, where does the life come from? And they don't have any morality, which I liked...

I was thinking about it, and I realized that in Heroes of Might and Magic 3, I didn't really pay much attention to the appearance of the units or heroes, even though they were pleasing and didn't bother me. But in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, the appearance of the units immediately caught my eye. And do you know why? Because in Heroes of Might and Magic 3, there was a great game, and people paid less attention to minor details. But in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, it's immediately noticeable. I won't say anything about Heroes of Might and Magic 4, because I don't have anything to say about it. Let's talk about Necropolis. Skeletons in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are just ordinary skeletons, and they should be like that. But in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, they are green and hideous. Zombies in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are normal, reanimated corpses, and in Heroes of Might and Magic 5... well... I think the witches in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 turned out worse than in Heroes of Might and Magic 5. I like the un-upgraded ones. Vampires in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are real and terrifying, but in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, they are young and beautiful. I think it's 50/50 here. Liches are probably about the same. And what about the Death Knights in Heroes of Might and Magic 3? They were simply awesome, and I fell in love with them at first sight. In Heroes of Might and Magic 5, if you compare them to the neutral Knights, they're not the same. The Undead and Harbingers are beautiful, and I liked them! And the dragons in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 are probably more colorful and attractive due to the animation. So, what do we see? Roughly equal, thanks to the higher-level units.

Added after 25 minutes
Now, let's talk about the Humans... Halberdiers and peasants. Well, it's not even worth comparing. The choice is obvious: Heroes of Might and Magic 3. Archers in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and 5 are probably equally good. Griffins are the same, but the upgraded ones in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 don't really please me. So, the choice is Heroes of Might and Magic 3. Crusaders are probably about the same when upgraded, but the regular ones in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are better. I liked the monks more in Heroes of Might and Magic 3; there's some kind of mystery hidden under their robes. But in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, they're just like some Catholics (I have nothing against them). Champions are probably better in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, thanks to the animation. Although the upgraded ones in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 are amazing. Angels and Archangels. On the one hand, in Heroes of Might and Magic 3, they were men, and I think that's more realistic. But in terms of beauty, Heroes of Might and Magic 5 is ahead. Again, thanks to the animation. So, it's about equal again. But again, thanks to the animation and the beauty.

Griffons are the same, but the upgraded ones in the 5th game are not very impressive. That's why I chose 3 heroes.

By the way, about griffons!
There were many debates about how djinns should look, but somehow no one remembered about griffons. I wonder where the Nival developers saw this heraldic beast standing on four legs?!
They look decent in the 5th game, but whether they are really griffons is a question...

I liked the monks more in the 3rd game; there is some mystery hidden under their robes. But in the 5th game, they look like some kind of Catholics (I have nothing against them).

"The Da Vinci Code" spoiled the developers' idea of what proper monks should be like...:D But it should be noted that in the 3rd Heroes, it was clear that these were some kind of mysterious monks, throwing energy clots, with their faces hidden... in short, mysterious creatures.:cool: And in the 5th game, they are just ordinary bearded guys who, for some reason, use a censer not for its intended purpose. And in general, it sounds very vulgar: "killed with a censer".:o
By the way, the monks in the 3rd game are the monks from M&M6. :rolleyes: Those who have seen them will remember them forever...

next are the demons...
in the 3rd game, the imps don't really look like imps, and in the 5th game, they look strange with that tongue...
the demons in the 3rd game are ordinary, horned demons, while in the 5th game, they are fiery and evil. I think the latter is better.
Cerberuses. It's hard to compare, although I think they are worse in the 5th game. They look too thin...
The Lords are definitely better in the 5th game. They are better than their counterparts in the 3rd game.
The Devils don't get a passing grade. In the 3rd game, they are more realistic and beautiful.
It's a pity they removed the Efreet. Although the Demonesses are stunning! And the Fire Elementals are beautiful!!!
Overall, Inferno hasn't degraded; on the contrary, it has become even more beautiful. Everything is so full of fire.

Added after 27 minutes
Elves.
A lot has been changed, and there is little in common.
I think the Elves are about the same in both the 3rd and 5th games.

Dendroids and Ents. And what are Ents? A copy from Lord of the Rings. And the name? Does anyone know what Ents are? But with Dendroids, it's immediately clear what we're talking about. Choice: 3 Heroes.

Unicorns are very beautiful in the 5th game, although they are also great in the 3rd game.

But there is a clear excess of Dragons in the 5th game. Something huge and indistinct. 3 Heroes is definitely better!

Centaurs and Dryads. I think the Castle didn't lose anything from the replacement.
The rest:
Gnomes and Dancers. I just hate Gnomes. The choice is obvious. Although the Dancers don't really fit in.
Druids and Pegasi. It's not correct to compare them.

Overall, I don't even know which is better. It seems like it's a tie.

And when I was playing Heroes of Might and Magic V, I wasn't scared of the Gargoyles at all... and the first time, I actually thought they were an artifact.

next, the Tower. Gremlins. Heh, in the third game, there were such cool little creatures with weights (as it should be), and in the fifth, they're also pretty cool. Such mechanics with cannons. Fun. Gargoyles. Oh yeah!!! In the third game, the animated statues are very beautiful, but in the fifth!!! There aren't enough words in the Russian language to express my indignation about WHAT THIS IS??? Wardrobes, cabinets, but not gargoyles!!! :confused: :confused: :confused: Golems. Well, I didn't like them in the third game either, although the steel ones were okay, but in the fifth, the steel ones don't fit with the oriental hats. I understand, mages, wise men, the East, but it's not necessary... Mages. Well, here everything is fine, in the style of both the third and the fifth. Great. Djinn are definitely better in the third game. Beautiful, they just disappear into a lamp. And in the fifth, a huge something with a saber and no head. I didn't like it... Nagas and Rakshasa. I'll say this, I don't really like Nagas in principle (don't hit me!), but Rakshasa are beautiful. So fast and dangerous!!! Titans. I don't think I'll say anything new, but in the third game, they are much better. Something from Greek mythology and divine. And in the fifth, it's incomprehensible. The melee combat is amusing :D Conclusion. In the fifth game, the Castle of the Magi is simply terrible compared to the third.:(

A lot has been said about genies, and in my opinion, the best (closest to the image from legends) genie is depicted in the game Age of Wonders – Heroes takes a back seat. Moreover, it belongs to the race of desert nomads there. In general, in AoW, the creatures for the races are much better chosen, and they are very well drawn (for that time, of course). And the music there is also suitable for such a game.
By the way, I still have the feeling that Heroes 4 appeared as a result of a cross between Age of Wonders, Disciples (or something like that), and Heroes 2.
Regarding the degradation: I was very disappointed with Heroes 5 because of the small size of most units on the battlefield. Of all the units, I only liked Rakshasas, well, Druids, Crusaders, Succubi, and Lords seemed okay.

P.S. Haha, now I understand where the town points in Heroes 5 came from: in AoW, a certain analogue was used, but it was tied not to the number of buildings, but to the number of city residents. The increase in the number of residents could be stimulated by building houses.