Posts from Мафия 32. Asylum

Loken, you wrote this brilliantly; it brought joy to my rotten soul. Seriously, great post. I think I'll even change the format of my smiley-post a bit to describe everything from a true perspective.
I'll start with the testing. Okay, in some places we overlooked something or failed to account for something. I admit that is so. Moreover, there's nothing shameful about it. Sometimes something unexpected can happen even in the simplest game, let alone in the current setting? Perhaps for some it is overloaded with details, ND, and statuses, but the main thing is that this setting is playable. And balanced enough x) Yes, balanced, despite all the general screaming about alliances and such. Our "Mafia" is not a computer game where it's quite easy to find bugs. The human factor is unpredictable in itself. And now let's talk specifically about the alliance.
So, the alliance. Lord, it amused me throughout the whole game that players were declaring Jihads against Gil's alliance and the psychos. Yes-yes, not the town, but Gil and the psychos. Why? Because the alliance was built out of thin air! Anyone could have hindered it. My team acted as it was reasonable to act—cooperating with the town. But no one pushed the town toward cooperation. Only Gil spoke; he was great at persuading and bluffing. And from the others, all that could be heard were screams of "Gil, your words are not an axiom, you're delusional!", while no one really tried to refute him or offer other plans in an accessible way. Everyone follows Gil—well, it's not his fault. "Gil writes for everyone"—then stop him, constructively refute his opinion; no one is forbidding it under threat of death.
Next. The idea of a draw began to be promoted at 3 AM, after my note. I thought that one could make a BEAUTIFUL, UNCONVENTIONAL move. A joint victory for two eternally irreconcilable sides! Town and mafia, OH BOY!! This is even cooler than CHRIST IS RISEN on a mafia scale!
What pushed me toward this thought? Arandor's behavior, of course. I saw that he doesn't respect the game, doesn't respect the opponent, doesn't respect his own team. "NO WONDER," I thought. And then I thought specifically about respect for the opponent. And I suddenly realized that the idea of an alliance could be deeper than standard cooperation. I saw that Gil was playing for the town, that he understood my affiliation with the mentally ill mafia and that he was still burning for cooperation. Hence the note, which Gil understood so clearly. Yes, I knew that Gil would understand the essence of the note and, after convincing the town, would talk to his team. You wrote and keep writing that this is stupid. But that's just being pedantic. How can one lack the imagination to understand that besides the game itself there is a plot, when the setting flashes before your eyes every minute?! A plot!
In most mafias, the endings are standardized in themselves. But! Revan and Vissi write great fanfics at the end, so why not make a literary ending again? There is logic to it. Yes, my team had roles of the mentally ill. But they are still people, and not stupid ones. Liquidating all threats from killer-doctors, those who were cruel to the sick—that is an obvious goal. At the same time, throughout the game, the town didn't suffer from psychos—and that is also logical. The other doctors didn't torture the patients. On the contrary—they helped them and cared for them. Why spill extra blood if it would be unjustified? If the psychos kill everyone and escape—then what? The roles weren't intended to be mindless butchers. You need to think broader! And those who are thick-headed can watch the movie "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
But let's analyze the fact of non-acceptance of such a move.
"This is a departure from the game's canons!"—damn, let's all play in real life then: no clues, just communication, voting, night in 2 minutes... But wait, a forum game is also a departure from mafia canons, isn't it?
"This is unfair to the other mafia!"—the other mafia discredited itself enough to make the unconventional realistic.
"Mafia is a game built on lies. How can you trust someone and form alliances with them?!"—this opinion is fundamentally wrong. Mafia is a game built on communication and reasoning. Lying is only part of communication. You don't have to lie to the mafia (hello, Gur), and lying to the town is generally undesirable so as not to confuse your own people. Lies are not the foundation, but a part of it.
Still lol, sometimes it's worth sacrificing obvious banality at the end of the game for the sake of beauty. But again, standardization, labels, stereotypes. This is a bad quality.
Speaking of bad qualities.
Point 1. The tendency "We don't listen to Gil (I won't speak for myself, I was an obvious maf the last two times), he's a maf, ololo, he's a maf, we don't listen to Gil" is starting to get annoying. People who scream this have no other arguments; they are unable to explain their opinion. But throwing this out and getting tons of meaningless fighting between town and town is easy as pie, while the mafia in general might not even write anything. I understand that trolls like gathering here, but trolling to the detriment of your own team—you'd have to ignore everything and be a complete Arandor. Think through your actions or go scream some nonsense in the sandbox.
Point 2. Arandor... Surely many noticed that after death, Arandor began to behave extremely inadequately. His dismissive attitude toward the Mage Guild and players was clearly visible. He broke rules for about 20, maybe 30 games ahead. But despite this, I am sure that most will simply actually turn a blind eye to it. "But it's Arandor!". "He's my friend!". "He's my bro!". Archik will take only one thing from this whole situation: the knowledge that in any game at any moment he can break the rules and not get blasted for it. This is a losing situation, gentlemen.
I'm not going to scream here about what to do or set anyone on the path of truth. You wouldn't listen to me anyway in this case, ololo. I am simply drawing attention to everything that happened because of Arandor, and to the negativity he threw at people who were enjoying the game.
What is seen behind his words? He wants to portray himself as cool, smart, and brave. But in reality, all this takes on the opposite side. It's very "cool" to ruin a game because of your own failures. Very "smart" to set everyone up with your antics. Very "brave" to provoke players into modkill or revealing roles. 10 points indeed!
Many will defend Arandor with their opinion that, supposedly, "the immunities were a violation, therefore Arandor did everything right." A standard erroneous opinion that "one violation justifies another," which crumbles to dust when transferred to real life. Moreover, in the situation with immunities, there were no violations. That's how the Mage Guild ruled. Everyone who disagreed had a chance to politely express their position or, if it was absolutely impossible, opt out of the game. No one pushed anyone into the layout by force, didn't hold them there, didn't tape their mouth shut (ok, in this case "didn't break fingers"), no one hid the fact of additional immunities and certainly no one forbade leaving the game. So you should still think about the fact of WHERE THE HYPOCRISY IS: in the immunities or in playing only to intentionally spite and hinder.
And yes, of course, the "new Hostor" is full of bias. But only because some own-bloated-with-unjustified-ego wretched insignificant plump worm insults my friends with his words and actions and prevents me from playing. And I don't like that. And I don't like worms.

Slonysh, thank you for the setting and the game.
Nay, Amko, Lorelei, you are a cool team, you did an awesome job. It was very pleasant, thank you.
Special thanks to Lorelei for a worthy debut—his posts during my execution were very pleasing.
Gil, great game, great teamplay. It was wonderful. THANK YOU FOR PULLING ME OUT OF THIS HOLE, BRO!
Revan, buddy, you also played cool. You stood your ground firmly, well done. And you handled your role 5+. I didn't think Omega would call for killing Patrick so openly O_o Unexpected!
Omega, Wish, thank you for supporting the idea, even if you didn't fully embrace it. Overall, well done.
Toriy, Lizard, Vervolka, Rimpel, Plesen, Pitch Black, Nebo, Hermit, Gur—thank you for the game.
By the way, Nebo, learn already not to scream "THIS IS CRAP, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!" at a proposed clue. It puts you in a bad light. Especially when the clue is correct. Take an example from Lizard.
Vissi, thank you for the jokes and nyanyanya~.
Arandor, you are an md. Chaos_md.

Ah yes, the smiley. x)

SUDDENLY! The reason for the alliance was the plot and setting, not the fear of losing. Did inspiration suddenly strike? Maybe you should write stories instead of running and playing mafia games, huh? Or play an FRPG. As for my behavior, it all started because of you. 1. The alliance and the rest of the junta, which started quite quickly. Why spoil the game with this? It's good as it is. 2. Immunities. In themselves, they are harmless, because we wouldn't go around killing any of you, and I don't think others would either. Moreover, you are constantly protected, i.e., they were pointless. But the very fact of their existence and the reasons that Slonish wrote about are unclear. If we talk about the reason "strong players," then this may be offensive to the rest (I myself didn't think about it, but I was told about it). Speaking about merit due to the test, what merit can we talk about when there are so many bugs? In my opinion, it's just not beautiful. IMHO. That's why I wrote about it. They are not even written in the rules, as well as the possibility of an alliance and the fact that it is forbidden to comment on the game (this is actually even allowed), it is forbidden to write in the database about arguments, etc. So, what did I violate? Only one point, which implies communication in ICQ. although even there, the conversation was about the absurdity of the alliance and the actions of people. If they hadn't started using their privileges and bending the game to their unconventional and "beautiful" vision, nothing would have happened.

It's so cool to ruin the game because of your own failures. It's so smart to set everyone up with your antics. It's so bold to provoke players into modkill or role reveal. 10 points!

What failures, lol? The failure was in the 11th mafia game, when I tried to kill, but it didn't work, and here I didn't even do anything. That is, failure occurs when there are actions. But there were no actions in this case. What kind of setup? I don't think one sanction would have decided the outcome of the game. And what kind of provocations? For everyone to reveal themselves and end the game, which has no meaning? It's like a provocation to all provocations, lol.

"This is a departure from the game's canon!" - Well, let's all play in real life, no clues, communication, voting, night in 2 minutes... And what about forum-based Mafia, isn't that also a departure from the canon?

Nonsense.
Forum-based Mafia cannot be the same as the regular game because not everyone has the opportunity to communicate in real-time, make quick decisions, etc. Also, let's remember the time zones. Therefore, these rules are necessary, and your "alliance" is based on the personal interests of one or two people, which stems from their unwillingness to play by the existing rules (for some silly reasons), which leads them to invent their own rules, imposing them on others, and masking it with pseudo-originality.

I won't go into too much detail, as the discussion has already become tiresome during the game. I'll just explain one point. Somewhere around the middle of the third day, when I realized that the possibility of a draw between the Mafia and the Town was being seriously discussed, I decided for myself that I would prevent this. Not so much because I needed to trust the Mafia and the "impossibility" of such an outcome, but because I am against this kind of thing in principle.

Thanks to everyone for the game. Overall, the alliance between the city and one of the mafia groups was not a good idea, but it is acceptable in the context of the current mafia setting, in the sense that the humanitarian doctors did not kill their patients; otherwise, they would be no better than the killer doctors. But even so, such an alliance made the victory of the first mafia impossible from the start and predetermined the outcome of the game.

but for the setting of the current faction, it is acceptable in the sense that the humanitarian doctors did not kill their patients; otherwise, they would be no better than the killer doctors.

According to the plot, those who were particularly unruly were sent to solitary confinement by vote, not killed.

I won't say anything special right now, but the game turned out to be terrible. I don't blame the GM for this, although there were a ton of bugs; I don't blame Arandor, who did everything the way he wanted; I blame a couple of specific players for this. What the heck? Why should we play for the sake of the setting? I don't care about all your "non-standard" games! If you're so afraid of losing, don't play! And don't pretend that you did it for a beautiful ending; people here are smart, and everyone understands. And in general, how can we talk about honesty or honor in a game that is created to convincingly lie? In general, you disappointed me. However, there aren't many complaints about Hos, because from the very beginning he told me that he just wants a beautiful ending, but Gil... I didn't like how he literally spoke on behalf of the city and the psychos. At first, I thought he was suggesting a temporary alliance in which we get rid of the harmful docks, but in reality, as a player, I didn't like this action, especially when he suggested eliminating the maniac who wasn't harming his team at all (well, how can you not support it if we need to eliminate him ourselves?), and then I was sure that we would start opposing each other, where the winner would be one. However, instead, he started talking about all sorts of draws and "beautiful victories." But Arandor is right, a draw is not a victory. So why should we all go for this "beautiful victory" if, in the end, no one wins, and the maniac and the unfortunate evil doctors die? I also didn't like how Gil started making decisions for the city team, and don't say that none of the city residents were against it, or are you saying that Reinhardt is nobody? It was also wrong that Hos decided everything for us, although at the end of the game he still asked what we wanted (yes, we could have gone to kill tonight if we hadn't been too lazy to continue). Gil, I have nothing against you, or against your plans (although I don't think I've ever really followed them), but still, stop shining with your self-importance and making decisions for others. Also, don't be so sure of your conclusions, because you can also be wrong, for example, in the last game you defended the mafia elephant (and you're even proud of it! =\). And if you figured everything out correctly, that doesn't mean that everyone else knows all the roles; not everyone can read between the lines (I usually only intuitively guess other people's roles, and even then, mostly alone, and I'm not always sure, because we all make mistakes). In general, please stop taking everything on yourself, as if winning this game determines our future, and yes, stop turning normal games into "non-standard" ones; it's not interesting to anyone anyway. Revanka is great; he played the best in this game. I even thought of him as Patrick on the first day (seriously!), but I didn't develop this thought, but that's a good thing, because otherwise your role wouldn't have been so useful, and the efforts would have been meaningless. I liked Lorelei; I didn't expect him to be such an interesting player; in general, his debut was successful. Amko is also cute, but I think he didn't care as much as I did. And Hostor is great; on the first night, he suggested good checks and quickly realized that Gil was just a guard. Only we were exposed terribly ~_~. In general, we had a good team; I liked it. Vistrit pleased me, especially with his "nyanyanyanya," because it really was like that! And Nebko was also funny, even though he was exposed. Arandor is the moderator, but sometimes he was right; it's a pity that we had to kill him so quickly, because otherwise the game might have been more fun. I have nothing to say to the others, except to thank them for the worst game ever. A special thank you to Slonyash, for the interesting setting in general and the good newspapers; honestly, it was very interesting to read; the plot was very well thought out, in my opinion. However, never give anyone immunities out of favor again, because that's not right, and it's not fair, and players will be angry.

Added 10 minutes ago
Arandor also said something here that we and Gil had agreed in the chat. Personally, I don't know if that was the case with him and Hostor, but if it was, the team was unaware. However, I have no doubt that Hostor and Gil are not jerks and played fairly, agreeing in the topic with their secret codes, which is not forbidden; otherwise, they would be jerks.

Peace, friendship, chewing gum. +)
3.Y. Give me a Rush chair.

I didn't think Omega would so openly encourage killing Patrick.

As Revan himself said in response to my comment:

they'll think you're a priest and they'll come to kill you

Even better :DSo, we used Patrick quite a bit, and even killed Ben on him. Yes, unlike Revan, I was generally in favor of this strange alliance, which is why I defended Gil, but we needed to have a backup plan, and the fact that a psycho focused on Revan is a local win.

Thank you, Slonysh, for the interesting setting, although there might be too many neutral roles. We didn't even have time to try them all out. The newspapers were written very well and read like a real detective story. Regarding the game itself, I was very happy to be recruited as a dockworker assassin on the very first night because, in the given situation, I wouldn't want to be either a town player or a mafia psycho. [pompous style=] Thorium, Sky, VisTrit, Arandor! We are a real team. I am proud of you! [pompous style] A special shout-out to Reinhard. Without a doubt, the best player in this mafia. Lizard was also great! It's a pity that we stopped choosing the Leader. P.S. I think the rules should include a small clause: "alliances between the mafia and the town are prohibited." Just in case, for those who need it spelled out.

Oh shi... I just wanted to play and have some fun, but it turns out something else is going on. Maybe I should wait a couple of games...

I don't really feel like arguing, so I'll just thank everyone for the game. In any case, it was quite active, although a bit tedious at times, especially towards the end. Gil annoyed me a bit; he has an amazing talent for pretending to be a Mafia member while having a town role. Revan did a good job, especially considering the game and his independence. As for me, I played as a maniac for the first time, so I couldn't resist the urge to kill a random townie. Sorry about that :smile04:. After that, I started hunting for the Mafia. I didn't actually kill Pintch, because I was going to Hostor that night. In fact, I tried to kill him twice, and both times a priest protected him o_O WTF? In my opinion, the town made a serious mistake by having a traitorous priest.

Oh shi... I wanted to play and have some fun, but it turns out that's what's happening. Maybe I should wait a couple of games...

I think the guys have already drawn their conclusions.

I defended Hostora only once, on the first night. By the way, I would like to see the game log.

PRIEST-TRAITOR

TRAITOR PRIEST

He is a heretic. But Peter Fisher never renounced God, not even after his death. Amen:smile36: