Nyashechka Kavai
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Loken, you wrote this brilliantly; it brought joy to my rotten soul. Seriously, great post. I think I'll even change the format of my smiley-post a bit to describe everything from a true perspective.
I'll start with the testing. Okay, in some places we overlooked something or failed to account for something. I admit that is so. Moreover, there's nothing shameful about it. Sometimes something unexpected can happen even in the simplest game, let alone in the current setting? Perhaps for some it is overloaded with details, ND, and statuses, but the main thing is that this setting is playable. And balanced enough x) Yes, balanced, despite all the general screaming about alliances and such. Our "Mafia" is not a computer game where it's quite easy to find bugs. The human factor is unpredictable in itself. And now let's talk specifically about the alliance.
So, the alliance. Lord, it amused me throughout the whole game that players were declaring Jihads against Gil's alliance and the psychos. Yes-yes, not the town, but Gil and the psychos. Why? Because the alliance was built out of thin air! Anyone could have hindered it. My team acted as it was reasonable to act—cooperating with the town. But no one pushed the town toward cooperation. Only Gil spoke; he was great at persuading and bluffing. And from the others, all that could be heard were screams of "Gil, your words are not an axiom, you're delusional!", while no one really tried to refute him or offer other plans in an accessible way. Everyone follows Gil—well, it's not his fault. "Gil writes for everyone"—then stop him, constructively refute his opinion; no one is forbidding it under threat of death.
Next. The idea of a draw began to be promoted at 3 AM, after my note. I thought that one could make a BEAUTIFUL, UNCONVENTIONAL move. A joint victory for two eternally irreconcilable sides! Town and mafia, OH BOY!! This is even cooler than CHRIST IS RISEN on a mafia scale!
What pushed me toward this thought? Arandor's behavior, of course. I saw that he doesn't respect the game, doesn't respect the opponent, doesn't respect his own team. "NO WONDER," I thought. And then I thought specifically about respect for the opponent. And I suddenly realized that the idea of an alliance could be deeper than standard cooperation. I saw that Gil was playing for the town, that he understood my affiliation with the mentally ill mafia and that he was still burning for cooperation. Hence the note, which Gil understood so clearly. Yes, I knew that Gil would understand the essence of the note and, after convincing the town, would talk to his team. You wrote and keep writing that this is stupid. But that's just being pedantic. How can one lack the imagination to understand that besides the game itself there is a plot, when the setting flashes before your eyes every minute?! A plot!
In most mafias, the endings are standardized in themselves. But! Revan and Vissi write great fanfics at the end, so why not make a literary ending again? There is logic to it. Yes, my team had roles of the mentally ill. But they are still people, and not stupid ones. Liquidating all threats from killer-doctors, those who were cruel to the sick—that is an obvious goal. At the same time, throughout the game, the town didn't suffer from psychos—and that is also logical. The other doctors didn't torture the patients. On the contrary—they helped them and cared for them. Why spill extra blood if it would be unjustified? If the psychos kill everyone and escape—then what? The roles weren't intended to be mindless butchers. You need to think broader! And those who are thick-headed can watch the movie "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
But let's analyze the fact of non-acceptance of such a move.
"This is a departure from the game's canons!"—damn, let's all play in real life then: no clues, just communication, voting, night in 2 minutes... But wait, a forum game is also a departure from mafia canons, isn't it?
"This is unfair to the other mafia!"—the other mafia discredited itself enough to make the unconventional realistic.
"Mafia is a game built on lies. How can you trust someone and form alliances with them?!"—this opinion is fundamentally wrong. Mafia is a game built on communication and reasoning. Lying is only part of communication. You don't have to lie to the mafia (hello, Gur), and lying to the town is generally undesirable so as not to confuse your own people. Lies are not the foundation, but a part of it.
Still lol, sometimes it's worth sacrificing obvious banality at the end of the game for the sake of beauty. But again, standardization, labels, stereotypes. This is a bad quality.
Speaking of bad qualities.
Point 1. The tendency "We don't listen to Gil (I won't speak for myself, I was an obvious maf the last two times), he's a maf, ololo, he's a maf, we don't listen to Gil" is starting to get annoying. People who scream this have no other arguments; they are unable to explain their opinion. But throwing this out and getting tons of meaningless fighting between town and town is easy as pie, while the mafia in general might not even write anything. I understand that trolls like gathering here, but trolling to the detriment of your own team—you'd have to ignore everything and be a complete Arandor. Think through your actions or go scream some nonsense in the sandbox.
Point 2. Arandor... Surely many noticed that after death, Arandor began to behave extremely inadequately. His dismissive attitude toward the Mage Guild and players was clearly visible. He broke rules for about 20, maybe 30 games ahead. But despite this, I am sure that most will simply actually turn a blind eye to it. "But it's Arandor!". "He's my friend!". "He's my bro!". Archik will take only one thing from this whole situation: the knowledge that in any game at any moment he can break the rules and not get blasted for it. This is a losing situation, gentlemen.
I'm not going to scream here about what to do or set anyone on the path of truth. You wouldn't listen to me anyway in this case, ololo. I am simply drawing attention to everything that happened because of Arandor, and to the negativity he threw at people who were enjoying the game.
What is seen behind his words? He wants to portray himself as cool, smart, and brave. But in reality, all this takes on the opposite side. It's very "cool" to ruin a game because of your own failures. Very "smart" to set everyone up with your antics. Very "brave" to provoke players into modkill or revealing roles. 10 points indeed!
Many will defend Arandor with their opinion that, supposedly, "the immunities were a violation, therefore Arandor did everything right." A standard erroneous opinion that "one violation justifies another," which crumbles to dust when transferred to real life. Moreover, in the situation with immunities, there were no violations. That's how the Mage Guild ruled. Everyone who disagreed had a chance to politely express their position or, if it was absolutely impossible, opt out of the game. No one pushed anyone into the layout by force, didn't hold them there, didn't tape their mouth shut (ok, in this case "didn't break fingers"), no one hid the fact of additional immunities and certainly no one forbade leaving the game. So you should still think about the fact of WHERE THE HYPOCRISY IS: in the immunities or in playing only to intentionally spite and hinder.
And yes, of course, the "new Hostor" is full of bias. But only because some own-bloated-with-unjustified-ego wretched insignificant plump worm insults my friends with his words and actions and prevents me from playing. And I don't like that. And I don't like worms.
Slonysh, thank you for the setting and the game.
Nay, Amko, Lorelei, you are a cool team, you did an awesome job. It was very pleasant, thank you.
Special thanks to Lorelei for a worthy debut—his posts during my execution were very pleasing.
Gil, great game, great teamplay. It was wonderful. THANK YOU FOR PULLING ME OUT OF THIS HOLE, BRO!
Revan, buddy, you also played cool. You stood your ground firmly, well done. And you handled your role 5+. I didn't think Omega would call for killing Patrick so openly O_o Unexpected!
Omega, Wish, thank you for supporting the idea, even if you didn't fully embrace it. Overall, well done.
Toriy, Lizard, Vervolka, Rimpel, Plesen, Pitch Black, Nebo, Hermit, Gur—thank you for the game.
By the way, Nebo, learn already not to scream "THIS IS CRAP, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!" at a proposed clue. It puts you in a bad light. Especially when the clue is correct. Take an example from Lizard.
Vissi, thank you for the jokes and nyanyanya~.
Arandor, you are an md. Chaos_md.
Ah yes, the smiley. x)
I'll start with the testing. Okay, in some places we overlooked something or failed to account for something. I admit that is so. Moreover, there's nothing shameful about it. Sometimes something unexpected can happen even in the simplest game, let alone in the current setting? Perhaps for some it is overloaded with details, ND, and statuses, but the main thing is that this setting is playable. And balanced enough x) Yes, balanced, despite all the general screaming about alliances and such. Our "Mafia" is not a computer game where it's quite easy to find bugs. The human factor is unpredictable in itself. And now let's talk specifically about the alliance.
So, the alliance. Lord, it amused me throughout the whole game that players were declaring Jihads against Gil's alliance and the psychos. Yes-yes, not the town, but Gil and the psychos. Why? Because the alliance was built out of thin air! Anyone could have hindered it. My team acted as it was reasonable to act—cooperating with the town. But no one pushed the town toward cooperation. Only Gil spoke; he was great at persuading and bluffing. And from the others, all that could be heard were screams of "Gil, your words are not an axiom, you're delusional!", while no one really tried to refute him or offer other plans in an accessible way. Everyone follows Gil—well, it's not his fault. "Gil writes for everyone"—then stop him, constructively refute his opinion; no one is forbidding it under threat of death.
Next. The idea of a draw began to be promoted at 3 AM, after my note. I thought that one could make a BEAUTIFUL, UNCONVENTIONAL move. A joint victory for two eternally irreconcilable sides! Town and mafia, OH BOY!! This is even cooler than CHRIST IS RISEN on a mafia scale!
What pushed me toward this thought? Arandor's behavior, of course. I saw that he doesn't respect the game, doesn't respect the opponent, doesn't respect his own team. "NO WONDER," I thought. And then I thought specifically about respect for the opponent. And I suddenly realized that the idea of an alliance could be deeper than standard cooperation. I saw that Gil was playing for the town, that he understood my affiliation with the mentally ill mafia and that he was still burning for cooperation. Hence the note, which Gil understood so clearly. Yes, I knew that Gil would understand the essence of the note and, after convincing the town, would talk to his team. You wrote and keep writing that this is stupid. But that's just being pedantic. How can one lack the imagination to understand that besides the game itself there is a plot, when the setting flashes before your eyes every minute?! A plot!
In most mafias, the endings are standardized in themselves. But! Revan and Vissi write great fanfics at the end, so why not make a literary ending again? There is logic to it. Yes, my team had roles of the mentally ill. But they are still people, and not stupid ones. Liquidating all threats from killer-doctors, those who were cruel to the sick—that is an obvious goal. At the same time, throughout the game, the town didn't suffer from psychos—and that is also logical. The other doctors didn't torture the patients. On the contrary—they helped them and cared for them. Why spill extra blood if it would be unjustified? If the psychos kill everyone and escape—then what? The roles weren't intended to be mindless butchers. You need to think broader! And those who are thick-headed can watch the movie "Knockin' on Heaven's Door".
But let's analyze the fact of non-acceptance of such a move.
"This is a departure from the game's canons!"—damn, let's all play in real life then: no clues, just communication, voting, night in 2 minutes... But wait, a forum game is also a departure from mafia canons, isn't it?
"This is unfair to the other mafia!"—the other mafia discredited itself enough to make the unconventional realistic.
"Mafia is a game built on lies. How can you trust someone and form alliances with them?!"—this opinion is fundamentally wrong. Mafia is a game built on communication and reasoning. Lying is only part of communication. You don't have to lie to the mafia (hello, Gur), and lying to the town is generally undesirable so as not to confuse your own people. Lies are not the foundation, but a part of it.
Still lol, sometimes it's worth sacrificing obvious banality at the end of the game for the sake of beauty. But again, standardization, labels, stereotypes. This is a bad quality.
Speaking of bad qualities.
Point 1. The tendency "We don't listen to Gil (I won't speak for myself, I was an obvious maf the last two times), he's a maf, ololo, he's a maf, we don't listen to Gil" is starting to get annoying. People who scream this have no other arguments; they are unable to explain their opinion. But throwing this out and getting tons of meaningless fighting between town and town is easy as pie, while the mafia in general might not even write anything. I understand that trolls like gathering here, but trolling to the detriment of your own team—you'd have to ignore everything and be a complete Arandor. Think through your actions or go scream some nonsense in the sandbox.
Point 2. Arandor... Surely many noticed that after death, Arandor began to behave extremely inadequately. His dismissive attitude toward the Mage Guild and players was clearly visible. He broke rules for about 20, maybe 30 games ahead. But despite this, I am sure that most will simply actually turn a blind eye to it. "But it's Arandor!". "He's my friend!". "He's my bro!". Archik will take only one thing from this whole situation: the knowledge that in any game at any moment he can break the rules and not get blasted for it. This is a losing situation, gentlemen.
I'm not going to scream here about what to do or set anyone on the path of truth. You wouldn't listen to me anyway in this case, ololo. I am simply drawing attention to everything that happened because of Arandor, and to the negativity he threw at people who were enjoying the game.
What is seen behind his words? He wants to portray himself as cool, smart, and brave. But in reality, all this takes on the opposite side. It's very "cool" to ruin a game because of your own failures. Very "smart" to set everyone up with your antics. Very "brave" to provoke players into modkill or revealing roles. 10 points indeed!
Many will defend Arandor with their opinion that, supposedly, "the immunities were a violation, therefore Arandor did everything right." A standard erroneous opinion that "one violation justifies another," which crumbles to dust when transferred to real life. Moreover, in the situation with immunities, there were no violations. That's how the Mage Guild ruled. Everyone who disagreed had a chance to politely express their position or, if it was absolutely impossible, opt out of the game. No one pushed anyone into the layout by force, didn't hold them there, didn't tape their mouth shut (ok, in this case "didn't break fingers"), no one hid the fact of additional immunities and certainly no one forbade leaving the game. So you should still think about the fact of WHERE THE HYPOCRISY IS: in the immunities or in playing only to intentionally spite and hinder.
And yes, of course, the "new Hostor" is full of bias. But only because some own-bloated-with-unjustified-ego wretched insignificant plump worm insults my friends with his words and actions and prevents me from playing. And I don't like that. And I don't like worms.
Slonysh, thank you for the setting and the game.
Nay, Amko, Lorelei, you are a cool team, you did an awesome job. It was very pleasant, thank you.
Special thanks to Lorelei for a worthy debut—his posts during my execution were very pleasing.
Gil, great game, great teamplay. It was wonderful. THANK YOU FOR PULLING ME OUT OF THIS HOLE, BRO!
Revan, buddy, you also played cool. You stood your ground firmly, well done. And you handled your role 5+. I didn't think Omega would call for killing Patrick so openly O_o Unexpected!
Omega, Wish, thank you for supporting the idea, even if you didn't fully embrace it. Overall, well done.
Toriy, Lizard, Vervolka, Rimpel, Plesen, Pitch Black, Nebo, Hermit, Gur—thank you for the game.
By the way, Nebo, learn already not to scream "THIS IS CRAP, YOU'RE AN IDIOT!" at a proposed clue. It puts you in a bad light. Especially when the clue is correct. Take an example from Lizard.
Vissi, thank you for the jokes and nyanyanya~.
Arandor, you are an md. Chaos_md.
Ah yes, the smiley. x)
