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Posts from Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online Heroes of Might and Magic III tournaments.
In all other cases, it's + game, there's nothing to argue about here.
Very often, situations can arise where 1-3 players share the same number of points. No one knows how to handle such a situation. If there were an optimal solution, it would have been invented already.
We can immediately dismiss the option of additional games, because it is unknown how long such a thing might take. There was already a tournament where Pit, Javdet, and Dreamcatcher competed for a spot in the group stage. There were 3 rounds of additional games, as a result of which the group stage was extended to 2 months. After that tournament, this option was no longer used.
There was an option to determine the winners based on the seasonal rating in case of a tie in points (in my opinion, this is optimal), but many opponents were found, saying that it is unfair to those who do not play in the season.
Through discussions and debates, it was decided that the date of the last game is the least harmful criterion, as it encourages activity.
Very often, situations arise where 1-3 players have the same number of points. No one knows how to handle such a situation. If there were an optimal solution, it would have been found already.
We can immediately dismiss the option of additional games, because it is unknown how long such a thing might take. There was already a tournament where Pit, Javdet, and Dreamcatcher were competing for a spot in the next round. There were 3 rounds of additional games, as a result of which the group stage lasted for 2 months. After that tournament, this option was no longer used.
There was an option to determine the winners based on the seasonal rating in case of a tie (in my opinion, this is the best option), but many people were against it, saying that it is unfair to those who do not play in the season.
Through discussions and arguments, we somehow concluded that the date of the last game is the least problematic criterion, as it seems to encourage activity.
What nonsense (this is not directed at you)... Who thinks that playing for a rating is less fair than a coin toss? And even if they do, they are definitely wrong! At a minimum, a game (any game) will remain a game, and a coin toss will remain a coin toss. And it is clear that the priority should be given to games, not a random draw.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
What nonsense (not directed at you)... Who thinks that playing for rating is less fair than relying on luck? And even if they do, they are definitely wrong! At a minimum, a game (any game) will remain a game, and luck will remain luck. And it's obvious that the priority should be given to games, not random chance.
There are people who don't post blame in the season but confirm losses, and that's fair:p. I myself have encountered a similar situation as a player/organizer, and everything was always resolved normally (date of the game, and if the players don't mind, then a game between them).
There are people who don't report wins during the season but do report losses, and that's fair:p I've encountered similar situations as a player/organizer, and everything was always resolved normally (date of the game, if the players don't mind, then a game between them).
I agree with that, but you also have to agree that based on the season results (if they exist), it's fairer than just flipping a coin.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
If there was an optimal solution, it would have been invented already.
It's simple – give first place to the player who started playing the games earlier, and let the second and third places be decided in an additional game.
Земля нуля. Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
Pit for LM
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The issue of breaking ties in groups with equal scores was discussed in this thread – check it out starting from message 13: /topic/6162/ Back then, in the Favorites tournament, there was a situation where 3 players in a group of 4 scored 3 points each. The criterion was the seasonal rating. Many options were proposed, but no definitive solution to the problem was found. Therefore, now by default, the tournament organizer chooses the method that he believes is most suitable for his tournament or simply likes more.
R55Max
Ideally, you should create a calendar of tournaments and make it publicly available...
It’s definitely necessary. I did this for 2 years. Due to the specifics of my work, I cannot be regularly and extensively online on ICQ and communicate with players and tournament organizers. Therefore, all forum-related work involving communication is extremely problematic for me. I would like someone to take on creating the calendar, contact current and potential organizers, and find out what people are interested in on the forum. Here's the topic: /topic/at/326207/, which ends with a calendar for 2010.
R55Max, maybe you could do it? I saw somewhere that you weren't against it… If you have any questions, I will help. Write to me privately.
Group exit with equal points was discussed in this thread - check from message 13 /topic/6162/ Back then in the Lyubimchiki tournament, a situation arose where 3 players in a group of 4 each had 3 points. The criterion was the seasonal rating. Many options were proposed, but no definitive solution to the problem was found. Therefore, by default, the tournament host now chooses the method that, in their opinion, is most suitable for their tournament or simply the one they like best.
It is absolutely necessary. I handled this for 2 years. Due to the specifics of my job, I don't have the opportunity to be regularly and for long periods in ICQ and communicate with players and tournament organizers. Therefore, all forum work related to contacts is extremely problematic for me. I would like someone to take on compiling the calendar, contact current and potential organizers, and find out on the forum what people are interested in. Here is the thread: /topic/at/326207/, it ends with the calendar for 2010.
R55Max, maybe you could take it on? I saw somewhere that you were not against it... If you have questions, I'll help. Write to me in private messages.
I would gladly handle this, and moreover, on paper I have almost finished a plan for the future rating. This month, I think I will finish its draft version and post it for further collaborative refinement.
P.S. In case of equal points, the following method can be used to determine the winner:
Since the calendar will be known in advance, everyone will be able to see it. For example, post the calendar on January 1, accept applications until May 15, and the tournament starts on July 1. So, those who signed up will see the group compositions and can, in principle, play fun games among themselves (which will also be entered into the rating), which will then determine who advances in case of equal points. That is, when starting any tournament, each player can anticipate a tie situation in the group, and to avoid it, everyone is interested in playing among themselves. Thus, even simple fun games will have a somewhat veiled system. If the players still never play each other, the IAHF rating (International Association of Heroes of Might and Magic fans...) which I plan to create in the future will be taken into account.
Also, one can consider determining the advancing player using a certain blitz: random castles, development on Jebus Cross for instance until ГО is breached, as Dirty suggested.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
SpiriTT
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to R55Max Your ambition and initiative are certainly commendable, but... it's a huge amount of work and will take a lot of time. Are you sure you can handle such a large project? If I remember correctly, the last attempt to create a detailed calendar (for more than a year) ended with the organizer disappearing. IMHO, Petya's approach (using the Preliminary Calendar 2010 as an example) is quite good because you can never be sure how long a tournament will last, whether there will be interest in a particular idea, or not. A preliminary draft is exactly what's needed. Of course, it's up to you to decide, assess your capabilities.
The whole problem is that tournament ideas often arise spontaneously. For example, no one knows, including myself, when I will be inspired to create the next tournament. To launch the EC2 mage tournament, I thought about it for about 15 minutes, and then spent another 15 minutes writing the first post and the rules.
to R55Max Commendable drive and initiative, of course, but... this is a hell of a lot of work and a ton of time. Are you sure you can handle such a global project? If memory serves me right, the last attempt to make a clear (and I understand you're aiming for that) calendar (for more than a year) ended with the organizer himself vanishing into thin air. IMHO, Pete's approach (like the Preliminary Calendar 2010) is quite good, because you never know for sure how long a particular tournament will drag on, whether there will be interest in some idea or not, etc. A preliminary draft is what's needed. Look at it yourself, assess your own strength.
Well, the time issue is solvable for me, since at work I have the opportunity to sort out and think everything through, and at the computer I play and communicate or implement what I've thought out)). The most important thing is that I find this very interesting. It's a big and difficult task, but I'm not going to put it all on my own shoulders, because there are already those who help, are in solidarity, and see the point in it, at least, and there will be more such people, if only because I will ask them for help :) anyone...
In any case, in any endeavor, there comes a moment when you just can't bring yourself to do it. So first and foremost, my bet is on a team that will help each other out; if there's no team, there will be nothing.
And as for whether I have enough (or don't have enough) strength - that's not the right way to phrase it. The fact that I'm in Heroes for the long haul is certain. I'm not going anywhere, I've figured out my life and fate shouldn't toss me around too much (knock on wood), but the participation factor of Heroes players is more important...
Message from Dirty_Player: The whole problem is that tournament ideas very often arise spontaneously. For example, no one knows, including me, when I'll get the inspiration for the next tournament. To open the EC2 Mages tournament, I thought for about 15 minutes, and another 15 minutes to write the first post and the rules __________________
This has also been taken into account. Roughly speaking, 2 years will be divided into 6 blocks of games, there will be 2 quite interesting ratings. It will be clearer later, and in each block - the opportunity to set up a spontaneous tournament (I specifically left time for them), its participants will play, but will also know that a loss in a simple fun game can have consequences. Any repeated replay can lead to a long delay of the tournament, so the choice of priority towards one player or another should be determined through the game (even the one that happened earlier). If 3 players have beaten each other in a circle, then the priority goes to the rating among those three, then a personal (seasonal) game between the remaining two. In any case, a place in the sun must be taken, not given. Thus, those who are weaker must prove their worth and not receive it as a gift. This is the principle that if player A has the 1st rating, and player B scores the same number of points, he still won't become 1st, but will be 2nd, because he didn't overtake him. Because the puck, the ball, didn't cross the line.
I will post everything in a detailed and understandable form later
Added after 4 minutes RiMpel2
How many players will be sure that by registering now they will be able to play in a tournament starting in 2-3 months?
There will be many players, I even think qualifications might be necessary! I'm not planning this only on HeroesWorld, but also intend to send proposals to other sites (foreign ones), create a site under the auspices of IAHF, and you'll be able to play on any site, as long as the general rules are followed. Again, mutual advertising and work with newcomers are needed. No need to reinvent the wheel, the main thing is to believe and help
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
There will be many players, I even think that qualifiers will be necessary! I don't just want to do it on HeroesWorld alone, but I'll also send proposals to other sites (foreign ones), create a website under the auspices of IAHF, and it will be possible to play on any site, the main thing is that the general rules are followed, again mutual advertising and work with newcomers are necessary. No need to invent anything special, the main thing is to believe and help
I understand you. Of course, there will be discrepancies; a competitive environment wouldn't exist without them. Well, what can we do? We'll have to come up with a system for replacing players who drop out. I think it's necessary to create a mailing list that will notify everyone about all the changes and updates in the tournaments. The issue is how the organizational activities will be conducted. People who are unsure about their availability, even though they initially agreed, will still have a chance to extend their participation under certain agreements with the organizers. And it's not mandatory to participate in all tournaments, only those where they feel they have a reasonable chance. And of course, there will be some losses along the way; that's unavoidable.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
It so happens that in the group stages, an average of 20% of games are not played – people who have lost their first games lose motivation. Another, more pressing problem is the delay in deadlines. How can we combat this? Hence the system: burger > individual > deadlines > coin – in my opinion, this is optimal for Heroes. I generally believe that all group matches should be played according to this system. And there is no escaping friendly matches. Besides, equal results, as you say, are quite rare. Usually, everything is decided in the burger round, and if not there, then in the individual match.
Groups of 4 people can be played using a mini-double system. That is:
Round 1. A def B C def D
Round 2. A def C B def D A advances from the group D is eliminated
Round 3. B def C B advances from the group C is eliminated
Essentially, it's the same round-robin format, but it removes those 2 games that can cause a cyclical closure of results. It also solves the problem of tournament motivation – after two wins or two losses, the 3rd game is not played.