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With army dispersion, the problem is solvable.
But knowing how to deal with external moral factors is also an indicator of skill.
I can easily come up with examples where you can't be safe from morale, and you have to take the risk. A typical example is an angel ambush on Jeb. You can't leave it for the second week, and one unlucky morale check (not even necessarily in the first round) can destroy the army.
These are the kinds of situations that don't appeal to those who prefer to win through skill. If I have an army capable of taking that ambush, then that ambush should fall, regardless of the whims of the random number generator. That's the essence of the sport.
In all games in the world, whether it's football, hockey (especially noticeable in team games), volleyball, basketball, there is a factor of luck, and it cannot be eliminated. Let's say a basketball player, in a very difficult situation in the center of the court, throws the ball into the basket, and it bounces off the rim, sits there for a while, and then goes in. What will most people say? If you reason it out, it means that the player didn't have enough skills to make that shot in that particular situation, they haven't practiced enough, etc.
Morale, on the other hand, is something like a latch on a basketball hoop that randomly opens and closes. That is, an external factor that does not depend on the player's actions. Such factors in sports are tried to be eliminated.
And only Heroes players praise such things, finding some deep meaning in them. There is no meaning there; it's a typical RPG gimmick, geared towards single-player. If Heroes were originally made for players to compete against each other, none of the developers would have even mentioned morale.
An example from another area – when Warcraft 3 was released, tons of criticism was directed at 1) the spread of unit damage and 2) the random drop of items from neutral creatures. Even though this uncontrolled randomness brings in far less than morale in Heroes. Because people have already learned from Starcraft and understood what a real esports game is, and what level of randomness is acceptable in it.
In short, it's a tired argument, and the opinion of the advanced part of the Heroes community is quite clear: morale is an anti-sports factor, so it should be strictly banned.
By the way, I really don't understand why you dismiss morale and GS so much, because earlier in another thread you wrote about getting free wins, taking castles without a fight, well, in general, moments in which there is a bit of luck, deservedly earned through cunning, ingenuity, and intelligence....
But even SoD players turn off morale when playing Warlords. From this, I conclude that SoD players don't really need morale themselves; they use it as an ideological weapon in arguments with Warlords players, saying that they have this nice thing, and you don't. It's similar to the well-known phrase of a black man, "but at least we have a beautiful moon."
So, "HotA rules" is some kind of Frankenstein's creation, with all these multi-volume rules and restrictions, with a bunch of additional software and configuration files. And yet, it's terribly flawed and unbalanced. Once, TE was criticized for the difficulty of installation; now, installing and configuring SoD in a tournament configuration is much more difficult than Warlords.
I think Heroes players will unite if HotA is improved.
There is also a political factor here: SoD promotes the immutability of the gameplay. Any attempt to change it will lead to a split in the ranks of the SoD players. In addition, the modified SoD will immediately lose the right to be called a classic and will compete with Warlords for players in the same category, where it will lose miserably on all fronts.
and get rid of some Warlords drawbacks, it's already clear that both have drawbacks, so you need to combine the best.
"But we have such a beautiful moon."
By the way, I think that reducing the stats of elementalists is nonsense, and it should be reverted.
Basically, it's an old argument; the opinion of the advanced part of the Heroes community here is quite unambiguous - morale is an anti-sport factor, therefore it should be strictly banned
I suggest banning Wicc for good, for anti-communist sentiments and inciting mutiny, and executing him as an enemy of the people!!! :smile17:
right now it is much harder to install and configure SoD in a tournament build than VT
What are you even talking about? :rolleyes:
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
What are you even talking about? :rolleyes:
Tell that to the hardcore SoD players. They'll throw manure at you. Starting with 10 Gnolls is their idea of a good time and a way to control territory – no matter how skilled the opponent, they can be forced into such a situation.
There’s no denying that. Skillful play can reduce variance. But unfortunately, this isn't always the case.
I can easily come up with examples where morale cannot be avoided, and one must take action. A typical example is an Angel external dwelling on Jebel. It shouldn't be left for the second week, but even one unlucky morale check (not necessarily in the first round) can destroy an army.
These are the kinds of situations that those who prefer to win through skill don't like. If I have an army capable of taking that external dwelling, then that external dwelling should fall regardless of the whims of the random number generator. That's the essence of sports.
Exactly. This randomness directly depends on skill. If your aim is true, the ball will go in every time. Players strive for this during training.
Morale, however, is something like a gate on a basketball hoop that randomly opens and closes. In other words, it's an external factor independent of the player's actions. Such factors are usually eliminated in sports.
And only Heroes players praise these things, finding some deep meaning in them. There is no such meaning; it’s a typical RPG gimmick geared towards single-player games. If Heroes were originally designed for competitive play between players, none of the developers would have mentioned morale.
An example from another area: when Warcraft 3 was released, tons of criticism was directed at 1) unit damage variance and 2) random item drops from neutral creatures. And yet, uncontrolled randomness causes far less disruption than morale in Heroes. Because people had already learned their lesson from Starcraft and understood what a real esports game is and what level of randomness is acceptable.
In short, this is a tired argument, and the opinion of the more advanced part of the Heroes community is quite clear: morale is an anti-competitive factor, so it should be strictly banned.
That was a jab at SoD players who stand around aimlessly and hypocritically argue. If you're interested in classic gameplay and don't care about balance, there are unrestricted rules. If you're interested in balance and competitiveness, there's Warlords Tournament (WT), which has already implemented most of the needs of Heroes players and provides open mechanisms for further development and improvement. You can even enable morale with a single checkbox if that's your desire.
But somehow, even SoD players turn off morale when playing WT. From this, I conclude that SoD players themselves don't really need morale; they use it as an ideological weapon in arguments with WT players, saying something like "we have this nice feature, but you don't." It's similar to the well-known phrase by a black person, "but we have such a beautiful moon."
So, "ХВ rules" are some kind of Frankenstein creation, with all these multi-volume rulebooks and restrictions, with tons of additional software and configuration files. And yet, it’s still terribly flawed and unbalanced. Once upon a time, TE was criticized for its difficult installation; now, installing and configuring SoD in tournament mode is much more complex than WT.
Go consult Rebel. He will tell you clearly what he thinks about attempts to improve SoD and where your place is.
There is also a political factor: SoD promotes the immutability of gameplay. Any attempt to change it will lead to a split among hardcore SoD players. In addition, modified SoD will immediately lose the right to be called classic and will compete for players in the same category as WT, where it loses miserably on all fronts.
Then it would be easier to just remove WTminuses from WT. Discussions on this topic are currently underway.
I replied in the thread specifically created for such discussions:
/topic/at/463838/
One can easily come up with examples where you can't rely on morale and need to take action. A typical example is hiding Angels on Jeb. You can't leave them for the second week, and even one bad morale check (not necessarily even in the first round) can ruin an army.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
484800548
Well, how about this... conduct a scientific experiment – explain over the phone (without a computer handy) to someone who isn't familiar with Heroes (let's assume they have the disc), how to install WoG and SoD in their entirety (including the patch, launcher, a set of tournament templates, a CD-less installer – you can even skip the HD mod, and that should be enough). And time how long it takes to do both.
You might as well use Morse code:smile40:.
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
Шри Чинмой (с)
Не отыгрывайтесь на вторых, а выигрывайте у первых.
Валерий Афонченко (с)
In my opinion, starting with 10 gnolls is even more interesting. The taste of victory is sweeter when you don't give up and overcome all the difficulties during the game.
Regarding the angel shrine, I remember taking it in a team tournament on a Conquest map, even after 3 angels were killed in the first round, and 2 angels were killed in the second round, but the shrine still dropped. So, I don't think you should blame morale: it's not enough to have an army capable of taking the shrine; you also need the right skills and tactics to prevent the negative effects of low morale. And if you're not sure and there's a chance that morale will lead to a loss, that's your own risk.
Here, it was also mentioned about the competitive aspect of Heroes games. Let's compare them to modern sports: a significant portion of major competitions are not held in ideal conditions, but in open arenas, in the fresh air, so to speak, with a certain amount of external factors (sun, rain, snow, etc.). But no one will ask you if the paths on your side were slippery or if you missed the goal because the sun was blinding you. These are just excuses. An athlete must first of all be strong in spirit: did you slip? did you fall? then get up and run on to the end. Remember the examples of heroism of our (mostly Soviet) athletes: Alexander Medved, a freestyle wrestler, accidentally broke his finger in the final of the Olympic Games, but he found the strength, returned to the mat, and won.
Sports is not a competition in sterile cleanliness, in a vacuum; external factors of various kinds will always be present. It is not only a struggle of muscles and minds, but also a struggle of character, moral and volitional qualities, and sometimes with oneself. ;)
Regarding simplifications, convenient buttons, and other features, I don't deny that it is progress. However, if we draw a parallel with the realities of modern life, this progress also has a downside: people are degrading because of their laziness to do things with their own hands. Look, do we really need:
-a robot to sweep the floor,
-a remote control to turn off the light,
-a button to open/close the curtains?
After all, everything can be done differently: get up from the couch, where your ass has grown fat from sitting for a long time, and do everything with your own hands... :rolleyes:
According to scientists, with such a pace of technological progress, rapidly growing demands, and a decrease in physical activity, people will one day degrade and turn into cephalopod hermaphrodites, and robots will do everything for them: a robot cleaner, a robot nanny. Do you want such a future? Think about it, for God's sake!
P.S. SoD + Heroes of Might and Magic (HoMM) lighter, psychological readiness for all the unexpected events and twists of SoD, is there anything else needed for a normal game? And I'll add a few more words... You won't get it! :p Those who wanted to, understood... :smile12: :)
.....
Regarding the top part of the message, I give it a 5+; as for the buttons and the game's development, interface improvements, and everything else, I disagree.
Humanity itself evolves and finds new and new ways to simplify everything; there's no escaping this, and it's still more enjoyable to play football in professionally made, custom-fitted boots with a perfectly compliant and spherical ball than in galoshes with an old, laced ball from which a hernia constantly threatens to pop out.
And I doubt you'll throw away your computer and start playing hide-and-seek.
Progress, my friend :)
and yet, it's more enjoyable to play football in professionally made, custom-fitted boots with a perfectly compliant and spherical ball, rather than in galoshes with an old, laced ball from which a hernia constantly threatens to pop out.
And I doubt you'd throw away your computer and start playing hide-and-seek.
Progress, my friend :)
You're exaggerating, my friend, about the galoshes, the old ball, and throwing away the computer... I'm not against reasonable progress; I'm against what could lead humanity to the brink of the abyss... ;)