Developing a Necromancer hero. — Necropolis

Silovik

11/14/2006 6:41 AM UTC

Auto-translated

So, I suggest we discuss and share our ideas for the optimal development of a Necromancer hero, using different races besides his own.
Typically, besides the basic Necromancy skill (which we definitely develop right away), the hero also has Dark and Summoning magic. In Dark magic, we have two options:
1. Cursed Lands, but this won't give us mass slowing;
2. All mass spells.
Everyone can decide for themselves, but it's worth trying the first option; maybe we'll reach the "Howl" spell, especially since if we're unlucky, we'll end up with the second option anyway.
For Summoning, it seems we either develop "Banish," which might not be very useful if we're not fighting Necromancers, but it can help against Phantom mages, so I'm looking forward to your thoughts. I haven't encountered this problem myself, or we develop Summoning itself, but I don't really like it. In the beginning, elementals are good, but later, with a decent army, they don't harmonize well with your green and not-so-undead creatures.
Attack can be taken only for Battle Fury and Cold Steel, which is a good addition to your not-so-small army of skeletons and the like.
Next, Logistics: there's no accounting for taste here. If you want to move quickly across the map, definitely take it, but Navigation and Scouting don't seem necessary to me.
Machines: I think it's reasonable to develop it for the Plague Tent, but only for Kaspar, since it's already implied for him.
Defense: depending on the situation, it would be good to improve up to Resistance from the Wheel, but it's not essential. The Necromancer's army doesn't focus on losses, as it grows and regenerates by attacking with its undead warriors.
Leadership: if possible, it would be nice to have. Death Herald with Diplomacy is the best, plus Morale.
Sorcery with Education is not necessary; we can develop without them, and we'll have enough magic as is, but I'm open to suggestions here.
Light, Chaos: these are not our magic types, so they are not needed.
And if we're aiming for the optimum:
1. Necromancy
2. Dark Magic - Curses - Connection - Earth.
3. Logistics - Pathfinding.
4. Attack - Fury - Cold - and Shooting, for archers.
5. Leadership - Diplomacy - Troop Gathering - Death Herald.
6. Either Summoning with Banish, or Sorcery with Mana Regeneration and Secret Knowledge.
P.S. I didn't write anything about Luck; it might be needed against Elves with Deadly Luck, but I haven't used it with Necromancers, so it hasn't come up.
I'm not talking about the Super Ability; the algorithm is more or less clear there.

Fireball

11/14/2006 9:00 PM UTC

Auto-translated

So, usually, in addition to the basic characteristic – Necromancy (which must be developed immediately), the hero has: Dark and Summoning magic. In Dark magic, we develop 2 options:
1. Cursed Lands, but there will be no mass slow;
2. All mass spells.
Everyone decides for themselves, but it is worth trying the first option, maybe we will reach the Howl, especially if we are not lucky, then we will still come to the second option.

Undoubtedly, Dark Magic is absolutely essential for a Necromancer.
But personally, I prefer the option with Master of Mind, Master of Curse, and Spirit Link. In my opinion, mass slow and confusion are more beneficial than Cursed Lands. For example, they can be obtained very quickly, and then battles with many neutrals become much easier, and most archers turn into minced meat in any quantity.

Summoning, here it seems we either develop Banish, which is not very useful if we are not initially fighting against Necromancers, but it will help against Phantom mages, so I am waiting for your reasoning, I have not encountered this problem, or we develop Summoning itself, but I don't like it, at the beginning, elementals are not bad, but later, with a good army, they don't harmonize well with your green and not very undead creatures.

I would develop Summoning up to Expert, there are useful spells, and most importantly, Rise Dead is strengthened, and you can save a lot of money. But I usually don't take derivatives from it. Increasing spell power by 4 for some spells looks weak, as do Haunted Mines. And Summon Creature requires Chaos Magic.

Attack can only be taken because of Battle Fury and Cold Steel, a good addition to your not small army of skeletons and Co.

Attack is a must, and even more so, Battle Fury, Cold Steel, and Ballistics.

Next, Logistics, here there are no comrades in taste and color, if you want to run around the map quickly, take it, but Navigation and Scouting are not needed in my opinion.

Logistics is always useful, and on large maps, or with water and sand, it is vital.

Machines, for the sake of the Plague Tent, I think it is reasonable to develop, only for Kaspar, because he already implies it.

I don't think it's worth taking them, just like playing as Kaspar.

Defense, depending on the situation, it would be good to improve to Resistance from the wheel, but not necessarily, the Necromancer's army is not fixated on losses, because it grows and is reborn by attacking its warrior-undead.

I take Defense or Luck if I haven't taken Logistics. But I don't strive to take derivatives in them.

Leadership, if possible, it would be nice, Death Messenger with Diplomacy is the best + morale.

Leadership doesn't work, because morale doesn't affect the undead, and IMHO, the Death Messenger with Diplomacy doesn't compensate for this. I don't like to wait for mercy from probability theory.

Wizardry with Education is not necessary, we can develop without them, and there is enough magic, but I am waiting for suggestions here.

Wizardry is needed for the Dungeon, but the Necromancer almost always casts spells with half the initiative. Education, if you plan to develop at least to level 15, is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. 1. Necromancy 2. Dark Magic 3. Attack 4. Summoning 5. Education 6. Logistics / Luck / Defense

Alan

11/14/2006 10:40 PM UTC

Auto-translated

A small clarification regarding summoning and mines... this will allow us to rush on small maps, just like Kaspar.

Leadership, magic – forget about it...

Education, if you plan to play a game that lasts 15+ turns.

And if you're playing against someone you know or against a Human, you can take Light and Mass Dispel because mass slow against Undead is deadly.

Chaos, together with the Lord of Cold, should be taken on small maps when rushing or in a not-too-long game of 12-15 turns, if you see an Ice Elemental in the guild, and there's a +50% cold damage amulet on the map.

Luck, if you have a free slot. Deadly Luck only if you have artifacts with similar effects and your opponent is playing WITHOUT Luck, because a simple -1 is nonsense. And against an Elf with 5+ Luck, it's completely useless.

Logistics depends on the map. For example, on the Wastes, the entire land has no penalties for Undead, so a Ranger is not needed, and losing levels on a small map is deadly.

Battle Machines are a must for Kaspar (and he should have the Plague Tent and Ballista if fighting in the field, and the Catapult if given right before a siege), and for the others, it depends on their play style and how much they like this skill.

But personally, I prefer the option with Master of Mind, Master of Curse, and Spirit Link. In my opinion, mass slow and dispel are more useful than Cursed Lands. For example, they can be obtained very quickly, and then battles with many neutral creatures become much easier, and most ranged units turn into mincemeat in any quantity.

I agree, the only exception is if there's already Plague in the castle guild and the opponent has many low-health creatures, then take Lord of Pain. This advice also applies if the hero doesn't have Darkness at the beginning, otherwise, the skill can wait if the heroes' levels won't be very high.

Defense, if against magic, take Resistance; if against ranged units, take Dodge.

Attack is almost mandatory...

P.S. Oh yes, and I almost forgot... Banshee's Wail is nonsense, IMO. -1 morale is the same as Deadly Luck, and losing -10% initiative is, of course, not bad, but when the hero has few levels, you don't want to waste an extra skill point on it...

Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.

Fireball

11/15/2006 12:36 AM UTC

Auto-translated

A small clarification regarding summoning and mines... this is what will allow us to rush on small maps, just like Kaspar.

Have you tried rushing with mines? Even if you manage to get them, you'll get very few Ghosts. Anyway, it didn't work for me, and now they've also nerfed Rise Dead.

And if you're playing with someone you know or against a Human, you can take Light and Mass Dispel because mass slow against Undead is deadly.

But why not respond in kind (that's why Master of Mind is essential)? Dispel doesn't affect everyone; it affects an area. In my opinion, fighting Necropolis with Darkness is difficult because at least 6 out of 10 spells don't work on it.

Take Chaos together with the Lord of Cold on small maps for a rush or in a not-too-long game, levels 12-15. If you see an Ice Elemental in the guild and a +50% cold damage amulet on the map.

I agree, but if there aren't many piles of skeletal meat scattered on the small map, the Necropolis is still doomed.

Luck, if there's a free slot. Deadly Luck is only useful if there are artifacts with similar effects and the opponent is playing WITHOUT LUCK, because a simple -1 is nonsense. And it's completely useless against an Elf with 5+ Luck.

P.S. Oh yes, and I almost forgot... Banshee's Cry is nonsense, IMO. -1 morale is the same as with Deadly Luck, and losing -10% initiative is, of course, not bad, but when the hero has few levels, you don't want to waste an extra one on this skill.

Cry also reduces Luck. And if you max out Deadly Luck on Deirdre, in her execution, Cry will give: -2 morale, -3 luck, -10% initiative, and it won't be resisted. But this is a specific case, although a pleasant one.

In reply to Alan

Silovik

11/15/2006 4:03 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Alan;46285

Leadership, magic – forget about it...
Education, if the game is intended for players 15+.
P.S. Oh yes, and I almost forgot... the banshee's cry is nonsense, IMO – reducing morale by 1 is the same as with a fatal failure, and losing 10% initiative is, of course, not bad, but when a hero has few levels, it's not desirable to waste an extra one on this skill...

Leadership, if you manage to get the Death Herald, is not bad at all for replenishing the army without a castle; diplomacy allows you to add all joined units to the Temple, so the Temple won't just sit idle. I don't know, I developed without education, and that's not bad either; you can reach level 30 on large maps. Regarding the cry, I'd like to add that it is performed without spending any mana, and at the beginning, when the hero has neither mana nor spells, it's not superfluous to "scream."
P.S. Magic also provides spellcasting speed, which is quite good with dark magic; you cast and instill fear, and then go on your way, reducing the cost of spells, and you can also raise the dead more often.

Снова играю в Герои5!

Alan

11/15/2006 9:33 AM UTC

Auto-translated

2 Silovik Leadership on medium maps is a gamble; you spend five levels and don't get an army bonus, but maybe just attach someone (a squad of one and a half).... it's kind of absurd...
If you reached level 30 without education, then you lost thirty points to basic stats, which is twice as much as just being level 30.
Magic. Most spells are already cast with a 50% initiative discount from Dark and Summoning. And for the rest... well I don't know, there are more useful skills.
And regarding the shout, I wrote that taking it when the skirmish is at low levels (10-) is useless; there are more useful things. And when levels are higher, other spells (various mass curses, slow, etc.) are already more useful.

Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.

Fireball

11/15/2006 11:08 AM UTC

Auto-translated

If you reach level 30 without any education, you lose thirty points to your main stats, which is twice as much as just reaching level 30.

To be more precise, he loses 15 points to his main stats, but that's still a lot.
I agree with everything else, except for the "Scream" ability in the case of Daedra.

In reply to Alan

Silovik

11/15/2006 11:31 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Alan;46335

2 Silovik Leadership on medium-sized maps is a gamble; you spend five levels and don't get any bonuses to your army, but you might be able to recruit someone (a unit and a half)…. It seems a bit absurd.
If you reach level 30 without Education, you lose thirty points to your main stats, which is twice as much as just reaching level 30.
Magic. Most spells are already cast with a 50% initiative discount from Dark and Summoning. As for the rest... well, I don't know; there are more useful skills.
And about Shriek, I already wrote that taking it when there will be battles on low levels (10-) is useless; there are more useful things. And when the levels are higher, other spells (various mass curses, slow, etc.) are already more useful.

I've been convinced; instead of the 6th point, I'll take Summoning or Wizardry, Education; if Summoning is already taken, then instead of Logistics, I'll just find a way to get around, and I'm not going to run away from anyone, but I want to get the Death Messenger, it's a freebie after all.

Снова играю в Герои5!

In reply to Fireball

Alan

11/15/2006 11:52 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Fireball;46355

To be more precise, he lost 15 points to basic stats, but that is still a lot.
I agree with everything else, except for the Shout in Daedra's case.

Yes, Daedra is a special case, but she seems to have it from the start. As for Education, I did miswrite, but it's still very much.

but I want to get Death Herald, after all, it's free own.

In my opinion, squads join too rarely and too randomly to be sure the skill pays off. And spending five levels on dreams, especially considering that you need to take the skill as early as possible... you'll either have to sacrifice Necromancer, magic, or education... and if they come to you earlier, that's already lethal, and 1-2 joined squads won't help here.

Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.

In reply to Alan

Silovik

11/15/2006 12:15 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Alan;46366

In my opinion, units join too rarely and too randomly to be sure the skill is worth it. And spending five levels on dreams, especially considering that you need to take the skill as early as possible... you'd have to sacrifice either necromancy, magic, or logistics... and if they come to you later, that's already fatal, and 1-2 joined units won't help here.I once played as a Necromancer and pitbulls kept joining me in groups of 20; I don't know why, but back then I didn't know we had Death Knights, so I drove them to the Temple to turn them into Death Knights. So it's a good thing, but not mandatory; those who like it—like me—had no problems, and for those who don't, no one is forcing them to take this school, although it really is more suitable for a secondary hero.

Снова играю в Герои5!

Черный Жнец

12/28/2006 3:23 AM UTC

Auto-translated

I'll try to outline my hero development strategy; I ALWAYS play as Vlad (also known as Vladimir).
As everyone knows, Vlad starts with necromancy and summoning magic, which is very useful given his ability to resurrect fallen undead. As the hero levels up, I have several options:
1. Take the "Raise Archers" skill to gather not just weak skeletons, but useful skeleton archers.
2. Take the "Education" skill to gain more experience and quickly develop the other skills. Also, "Mana Attraction" is a very good skill for a necromancer, whose focus is on magical power rather than knowledge. This solves the mana shortage problem.
3. Take the "Haunted Mines" skill and create an army of ghosts from thin air; ghosts are not to be trifled with!
I mainly focus on developing the skills listed above, and then I take the following skills:

1. Defense
2. Offense
3. Logistics

Defense is an incredibly useful skill for necromancers; losses among skeleton archers are significantly reduced, which is important when their number in the army exceeds 2000. The "Evasion" skill is also very useful, especially during a castle siege. Combined with "Raise Dead," it yields good results. :)

Offense:smile10: This skill has huge advantages for the undead. Again, "Battle Frenzy" doubles the damage of your archers, and the "Archery" skill adds an additional 20% to the maximum damage from archers. As a result, the enemy will have to attack the skeleton archers with all available forces and suffer incredible losses from your melee troops, whose damage is increased by the "Offense" skill by 30%.

Logistics is also a good skill, but it is best to take it on large maps; on smaller maps, this skill is not very effective. However, "Navigation" and "Scouting" followed by the "Silent Hunter" skill are not worth taking; it's a waste of a level. :smile18:

As I was writing this post, another question arose: each hero has core skills specific to their class ("Raise Skeleton Archers," etc.), and also one special skill! So, at what level does it become available? :smile39:

LotR

12/28/2006 4:55 PM UTC

Auto-translated

at least 29, but you need to level up in a specific way (see the skill tree).

форум разработчиков WOG 3.59
я хороший :smile10:

In reply to LotR

Alex Ghost

12/28/2006 4:58 PM UTC

Auto-translated

Do you absolutely need a super skill?

ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ - конец бесполезным темам

In reply to Alex Ghost

Черный Жнец

1/2/2007 7:40 AM UTC

Auto-translated

Alex Ghost;58298

Do you really need a super skill?

You see, I've never leveled up a hero beyond level 27, and I'm just curious to know what kind of nasty trick my Necromancer can pull off with a special ability. There's bound to be something brutal!:smile03:

Я люблю мертвых...они такие симпотичные !

In reply to Черный Жнец

Alex Ghost

1/2/2007 10:51 AM UTC

Auto-translated

On sufficiently large maps, I had the patience to level up my hero – a Necromancer – to level 34! And I chose this skill – it effectively slows down enemy troops! Banshee’s Wail reduces 6 morale, 1 luck, and 10% initiative. With such a skill, you can even attack dwarves!:cool:

ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ - конец бесполезным темам