HeroesWorld

Posts from - A reference guide and manual in Russian for Heroes 3.

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AmberSoler
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Greetings to all fans of the Heroes of Might & Magic III universe!

I would like to invite you to participate in a project dedicated to creating a reference guide for HoMM III.

The topic itself is not new. There are many individual resources dedicated to describing the physics of the Heroes world, but despite all efforts, it is extremely difficult to find an information source that can be unequivocally classified as a reference guide.

This work does not claim to be original and is the result of compiling various official (Player's Manual) and unofficial (forums and websites) sources dedicated to describing the internal world of the game.

The file in Excel and PDF formats can be found at the following link:
http://vk.com/fizmig

At the moment, the work on the project is not yet fully completed, if it is even possible to complete it... :) Therefore, I would be grateful if anyone would like to participate in it and share their opinions, knowledge, and advice. An updated version of the document will be posted at the specified address for all those who wish. A link to the author will definitely be included. :)

Not all the information provided in this reference guide can be considered official, because it contains observations and assessments of players who wished to share their opinions about the features of the game. But, nevertheless, in general, it достаточно realistically reflects the physics of the Heroes world and will undoubtedly be useful to any beginner.

Given the above, any comments, clarifications, and explanations are welcome. Any suggestions regarding a more optimal form of presenting the information provided will also be valuable.

Sincerely,
AmberSoler
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R55Max
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How does the "force field" spell work? As I understand it, dragons cannot break through the field, but enemy archers can still shoot without any problems. What about other units? Are there any other situations where it helps, besides blocking access?

Added after 13 minutes
Marmot

And here's another question: during an attack by Cerberuses, why does the "bite" attack not affect some stacks that should also be affected (when 3 stacks are standing next to each other in adjacent hexes)?

There is no way to verify, but it seems that Cerberuses only bite three units if they are standing next to each other, and the bite is directed at the unit in the middle. This means that Cerberuses can only damage the attacked hex and two adjacent hexes (one on each side).
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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P1kok
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I have a question: logically, with equal armies and equal skills (the attack of a Crag Hack is equal to the defense of any hero with a defense skill), the attack should exceed the defense level, because expert defense provides 15% while the attack provides 30%. The influence of a 5% increase in attack/defense affects the same modifiers, i.e., it affects both skills equally but in opposite directions.
In reality, it turns out that I am taking away a negligible number of troops from an opponent with the "defense" skill, while my attack exceeds the opponent's defense skill by 10 points!
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alikov temik
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Message from Sega;35560
-the specialization for a specific creature type adds +1 to speed (this is clearly visible), and also "Increases the Defense and Attack skills of any creatures of that type for each level reached after level X" - how should this be understood? Does it mean that every X levels, there is an increase of +1 to attack and defense, i.e., at level X, +1, at level 2X, +2, and so on?
I checked it myself: the mechanism is different from what is written here...
For example, I took Valeska (specialized in archers) at level 10. According to the description, she should add 10/2, i.e., 5 to the attack and defense (not counting the hero's attack and defense) of all archers and improved archers, and +1 to speed...
The speed is correct, but the increase in attack/defense is slightly less...((
WHY??
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$an4es
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The manual contains all the calculations. It states that for every n levels, attack and defense increase by 5% (except for the first time, when attack and defense increase by 1).
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alikov temik
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5% to the primary skill?! Thanks, so if the hero's attack/defense is low, it won't be very effective:rolleyes:
P.S. Thanks to everyone for creating this guide; I've been looking for something like this for a long time:smile12:
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$an4es
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it seems like it deals 5% of the creature's attack and defense values.

Added 8 minutes later
I have an idea: specify the actual starting armies of heroes in the reference guide. After all, it is known that Gurisson is often not given a ballista (but should always be given), Ivora may not be given elves at all, Bronk is sometimes not given basilisks, and so on.
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alikov temik
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not only to the garrison, but for example, also to Toros. However, Christian always seems to get it. In the aboutheroes(ah) program, the starting armies of the heroes are listed (with a range: for example, Valeska can get from 12 to 21 archers - the number is chosen randomly even before the start of the game). (link http://heroes.ag.ru/h3/ at the end of the page) However, it says Always above the icons of the ballista and tent, which is incorrect. Try replaying the game 100 times and count the number of times the ballista appears. I haven't done this, but I assume the probability is 50%... Also, I noticed that if there is a level 2 dwelling (monster dwelling), the ballista is given less often. By the way, this is what needs to be added to the reference guide.
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RomarioGrom
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P1kok
I have a question – logically, with equal armies and equal skills (the attack of a Crag Hack is equal to the defense of any hero with a defense skill), the attack should exceed the defense level, because expert defense gives 15% while the attack gives 30%. The influence of a 5% increase in attack/defense affects the same modifiers, i.e., it affects both skills equally but in opposite ways.
In reality, it turns out that I take away a negligible number of troops from an opponent with the "defense" skill, while my attack exceeds the opponent's defense skill by 10 points!
It can be calculated precisely in a physics engine, but in practice, with equal stats and levels, Crag/Gundula lose to armored units:smile09:


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AmberSoler
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P1kok
I have a question – logically, with equal armies and equal skills (the attack of Crag Hack is equal to the defense of any hero with defense), the attack should exceed the defense level, because expert defense gives 15% while attack gives 30%. The effect of a 5% increase in attack/defense applies to the same modifiers, i.e., it affects both skills equally but in opposite directions.
In reality, it turns out that I take away a negligible number of troops from an opponent with the "Defense" skill, while my attack exceeds the opponent's defense skill by 10 points!
The Attack skill gives a 30% increase to only one of the damage components – the base damage, while the Defense skill reduces 15% from all components in total... For example, we have a hero with a high primary Attack skill (not to be confused with the secondary Attack skill, with Crag Hack being a special skill for this skill) and the base damage of a unit is, say, 50 HP. The Attack modifier will give 15 HP, and the Attack/Defense modifier can add up to 200 HP. So, a specialist in Defense (Armor) will remove 15% of the sum of all parameters = 0.15*(50+200+15)=39 HP, while a specialist in Attack receives a bonus of only 15 HP. That is, many parameters need to be taken into account to determine the effectiveness of one or another specialization.

Read section "5.7 Damage Calculation in Combat" in the reference more carefully. I agree that it is written in a complex language – it is not very clear, but the mathematics there reflects reality quite accurately. Perhaps there are some unaccounted moments, but in general, everything is correct.
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Dirty_Player
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RomarioGrom
You can calculate it precisely in physics, but in practice, with equal stats and levels, Crag/Gundula lose to armored units:smile09:
That's not true. Crag Hack and Tazar, level 20, with identical stats, expert attack, and defense, deal the same damage to each other!
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AmberSoler
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alikov temik

I didn't do that, but I think the probability is 50%..
Also, I noticed that if there is a level 2 dwelling (monster dwelling), then the ballista is given less often (

by the way, this is something that needs to be added to the reference guide)
It would be great to get verified numbers. Assumptions are still not what we would like to see in the reference guide. There are already too many assumptions there. ))

Added 14 minutes later
Dirty_Player
That's not true. Kreg Hack and Tazar, both level 20 with the same parameters, expert attack and defense, deal the same damage to each other!
When Tazar hits Kreg, neither of their special abilities work... When it's the other way around, Kreg's attack +30% to base damage and Tazar's Armor -15% to total damage work... The greater the difference between Kreg's Attack and Tazar's Defense, the more effective Tazar's Armor will be. If Attack equals Defense, then the damage from the Attack special ability will not be able to offset the Armor special ability...

Here, Attack/Defense are primary skills, and Attack/Armor are secondary.
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Dirty_Player
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AmberSoler
When Tazar attacks Kragg, neither of their special abilities work... When it's the other way around, Kragg's attack works, adding +30% to his base damage, and Tazar's armor reduces the total damage by -15%... The greater the difference between Kragg's Attack and Tazar's Defense, the more effective Tazar's armor will be. If Attack equals Defense, the damage from Kragg's attack will not be able to be mitigated by Tazar's armor ability...
Could you provide this information in numbers, perhaps for some Archangels?
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AmberSoler
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Dirty_Player
Could you provide the figures for, say, some Archangels?

It's not difficult to show, but it will be quite cumbersome...

The damage calculation formula will look like this:

D= [D(bas) + D(bas)*(Att-Def)*0.05 + 0.3*D(bas)*(1+0.05*Level)] * (1-0.15*(1+0.05*Level)),

where
D(bas) is the base damage of the unit, which in our case is constant for the Archangel and equals 50 HP;

D(bas)*(Att-Def)*0.05 is the base damage modifier, which increases by 5% with each increase in the Attack/Defense delta;

0.3*D(bas) is the standard bonus for the Expert Attack skill;

0.3*D(bas)*(1+0.05*Level) is the "specialty" modifier, increasing the Attack bonus by 5% for each level (Crag Hack);

0.15*(1+0.05*Level) is the "specialty" modifier, increasing the Armor bonus by 5% for each level (Tazar);

Let's start by defining the task - what exactly do we want to test? How to assess the effectiveness of the secondary Attack and Defense skills?

By default, both heroes have the same primary Attack/Defense skills and the same secondary skills (both have Expert Attack and Expert Armor). That is, complete parity.

Obviously, it is necessary to compare the effect (damage) that the attacking unit will inflict under the condition that both specializations are working (Crag Hack attacks Tazar) and the damage when Tazar attacks Crag Hack (in this case, the specializations are not active, and the damage is calculated according to standard rules).

If we analyze the dependence (let's assume the heroes' levels are the same, it doesn't matter which one, let's say 3. Primary skills are equal to zero), then we can easily find that with an Attack/Defense delta of 8 or more, the hero with the Armor specialization receives less damage - 72.20 HP, than he is able to inflict under the same conditions - 72.25 HP. That is, his skill begins to dominate. Moreover, the higher the level of the heroes, the faster this mechanism is activated. For example, if both heroes are level 27 (and higher), then the calculation shows that Tazar already at the start (with zero attack/defense spread) inflicts more damage - 55.25 HP, than he receives from the attack of Crag Hack - 55.20 HP...

Conclusion: the Attack specialization is effective only with relatively small values of the Attack/Defense spread, when direct damage dominates. As soon as the emphasis is placed on the difference in the primary skill, the Armor specialization will have an advantage. And the higher the level of the heroes, the more pronounced this becomes.

Note:
This calculation has nothing to do with assessing a duel between two heroes. Since it compares two heroes under the condition that each of them has an advantage in attack over the other - which cannot happen simultaneously... )) The conversation is exclusively about the effectiveness of secondary skills, all other things being equal. I apologize for all this math, but you asked for it... ))
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RomarioGrom
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It became incredibly interesting to simulate such a situation on Arches, assuming that the parameters are identical, for example, 10 attack/10 defense for both, and they have expert specializations. Crag deals 55 damage, while Tazar deals 50:mad: This is approximately from level 5 to level 20; at level 20, the damage is already 53 against 50. Crag is also on horseback, approximately from level 40+, and deals 49 damage against Tazar's stable 50, but we need to be realistic; I haven't seen such a high level in online play yet. A 22nd-level standard unit might reach up to a 26th-level on large maps... But even this won't make me choose Crag if Tazar is available:D We also need to remember that Crag's specialization won't help archers, but Tazar is effective even in difficult terrain. P.S. While I was writing the post, AmberSoler explained everything clearly using a formula:smile20: I also forgot to mention that during the testing, Crag didn't have the armor skill, while Tazar had the attack skill.


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AmberSoler
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RomarioGrom
I became very interested and simulated a similar situation in Heroes, assuming that the parameters are identical, for example, 10 Attack/10 Defense for both, and they have expert specializations. Crag deals 55 damage, while Tazar deals 50...
With equal Attack/Defense skills, the hero with the Attack specialization will always have an advantage. However, if there is a prospect of increasing primary skills, the hero with the Defense specialization will ultimately look more effective... They shouldn't fight each other, but against the same opponent. Crag Hack will start losing earlier. )) But all of this is abstract reasoning from the realm of probability theory. In a real game, everything is a little different...
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