Posts from Which is stronger – a titan or a black dragon?

no, it doesn't use.

No, he doesn't use it.

Let him try. But not on the first turn.

Well... Tetany is awesome! But seriously, I'll close the thread tomorrow. You know why.

Well, such frivolous topics can spark interest among new users on the forum.

They'll argue and debate, and eventually, the most knowledgeable one will say, "I'm ready to prove it!" :D

And they'll experience the joys of online play and the bitterness of defeat (tasting the forbidden fruit that changes one's worldview :D). And their wild mind will be filled with sad thoughts, and they'll start to wonder, "Why did things turn out this way?"

--->>> As a result, we'll get a new player who comes to our forum with the motivation to prove something to someone and play actively.

So, who knows? Perhaps there's even some meaning in these nonsensical topics.

and how is damage calculated in Heroes in general?

And in the "FizMiG" file http://www.homm3world.narod.ru/FizMiG.rar, by the way, everything is written.

(Page 21)

Yeah...Tetans are cool! But seriously, I'll close the thread tomorrow =)). You understand why.

The topic is promising. If, as a result of simulating the situation, a player learns to calculate damage, estimate the probabilities of hit variance, and consider the importance of the "defend" button, then in my opinion, it's worth keeping the thread open for another week:)))

Actually, in 20 attempts, the Titan won 12 times. What does this say? Not that the Titan is stronger or that the Dungeon is stronger, but it seems to me that in Heroes 3, the Titans and the Dungeon are EQUAL in strength. Well done, Titans, I've always been rooting for them.

I have a question: on what terrain did the battle take place? Was it by chance on snow? The fact is that in this case, the terrain is very important...

How is damage calculated in Heroes, actually?

Now this is a constructive dialogue :) Although, why calculate anything when the damage is already specified in the battle from this to that.

By the way, it's an interesting topic. Maybe it will even make me open Heroes and test it. :D

I don't rule out the possibility that the battle will end in a draw when both have little HP left and it will be impossible to attack because whoever attacks first will receive a counterattack and a blow that will kill them.

no, snow is natural for titans, everything was on the grass.

I don't rule out the possibility that the battle will end in a draw when both have little HP left and it will be impossible to attack because whoever attacks first will receive a counterattack and a blow that will kill them.

Has Wait already been banned by the rules? :rolleyes: On the topic - with Wait, Chaos Dragon will definitely win.

And what if, when casting Chain Lightning, the Titan has a defense buff? According to attack and defense parameters, it's only slightly weaker, but deals 10 more damage. It would be better to compare a Dark Dragon and a Storm Dragon; the battle would be more epic.

This is a promising topic. If, as a result of simulating situations, a player learns to calculate damage, estimate the probability of hit variance, and consider the importance of the "defend" button, then in my opinion, it's worth keeping the topic alive for another week:)))

I agree! The conversation has taken an interesting turn... :) Let it stay for now - it's useful for beginners... I admit I was wrong :rolleyes:

Excellent question. As a reminder, "Titans are awesome" (Zingel).

No, it was much more serious! ))))

:smile13: Sorry for the off-topic!

Glad to see everyone and glad that the eternal topic is still alive!

If we approach the question academically, we don't take into account the bonuses for morale, luck, and terrain (home ground). We also average the damage (the average value from the range of base damage). There are, of course, no spells or other nonsense. That is, we equalize the chances of the units, after which the only determining factor is their abilities - which is the subject of discussion.

In total, we have (Damage/Attack/Defense/Health):

Titan - 50 HP+50% (ability against Black Dragons)=75/24/24/300 (no penalty in melee combat)
Black Dragon - 45 HP+50% (ability against Titans)=67/25/25/300

With each attack, the Titan deals damage=(1-0.025)*75=73 HP, the Black Dragon - (1+0.05)*67=70 HP. That's it. The calculation is complete - the Titan is physically stronger! All other results are just fluctuations in the space-time continuum, where anything can happen... :smile19:

However, the question of the first turn decides everything - and this advantage is on the side of the Black Dragon - it will reach the Titan at the start in any case, and this will create an advantage for itself. If we allow the Titan to attack from a distance without response at the start, the Dragon will have no chance to restore parity. Neither of the participants in the duel will survive the fifth hit - and both will definitely withstand four. Victory will go to the one who has the first turn. But, the Black Dragon has an innate high speed, and, all other things being equal, it will get a 100% advantage.

P.s. I averaged the damage solely for the purpose of bringing the situation to an average model - if the number of tests tends to infinity, then the damage will be exactly at the median (I assume that the damage range is equally likely). Don't believe me - ask Grisha Perelman! :D

Practice shows that the Titan often emerges victorious from the battle - this is quite possible, given the existence of a 40-60 HP damage range per hit. The Titan will defeat the Black Dragon only if it deals 300 health points of damage to the opponent in 4 hits (with the classic combat scheme - without "wait", the fourth hit will always be behind the Titan).

The damage range for the Titan is from (1-0.025)*60=58 HP to (1-0.025)*90=87 HP. In 4 hits, this will be 232-348 HP, which in 42% of cases will be equal to 300 HP or more (this will allow you to win the battle) and, accordingly, in 58% of cases the duel will end in defeat. This distribution is perfectly confirmed by practice.

P.s. "Wait", as well as going into a strong defense, does not save the situation, since in a one-on-one battle, "Wait" is not needed for the slower outsider, and "Defense" will be applied only after receiving damage, and the fact that it works only until the end of the round makes this technique completely useless.

Conclusion: The Titan is stronger. But the Black Dragon is more likely to win.

What did the author of the question mean?
Did I miss anything? Was it about the third one? :D

My opinion: the Titan is stronger than the Black Dragon.

Neither participant in the duel will survive the fifth attack - although both will definitely withstand four.

If we consider the average damage, after the 4th attack, the Black Dragon will have 8 hit points left, and the Titan will have 20. So, the Black Dragon has a real chance of dying after the 4th attack (if the Titan gets a little lucky). But that's not the main point. AmberSoler, you did a good analysis, but you still didn't take one thing into account. Everything will happen exactly as you described if the battle is fought on auto-battle. But if a person controls the Titan and the Black Dragon, then things will be different. Now, let's consider the Titan vs. Black Dragon battle step by step. I will also do all calculations based on the average damage. Round 1. The Black Dragon attacks the Titan, and the Titan responds. On its turn, the Titan moves away. The Titan is not stupid. It won't just mindlessly attack the dragon. The Black Dragon has 227 health left (300-73) The Titan has 230 health (300-70) Round 2 The Black Dragon attacks the Titan (it is forced to attack to avoid a ranged attack). The Titan responds. The Titan moves away again. Black Dragon: 227 - 73 = 154 HP Titan: 230 - 70 = 160 HP Round 3 The Black Dragon attacks the Titan, and the Titan responds. The Titan changes its location again. Black Dragon: 154 - 73 = 81 HP Titan: 160 - 70 = 90 HP Round 4 The Black Dragon attacks the Titan, and the Titan responds. And on its turn, the Titan finishes off the Black Dragon. In this scenario, I did not take morale into account. If the Black Dragon is lucky with morale or very lucky with damage, it will win. Now, let's assume that the Black Dragon does not attack the Titan, but simply blocks it (just flies up close to it without attacking) to avoid a ranged attack. Then the Titan will also move away. In this case, the game will drag on, but again, the advantage will be on the side of the Titan. Because in this prolonged battle, morale will be decisive. If the Black Dragon's morale drops, it won't bring it any particular advantages, since it didn't attack the Titan the first time, so the Titan retains its retaliatory attack. But if the Titan's morale drops, it will unleash its ranged attack in full force. Conclusion: If the Black Dragon is lucky with morale and/or damage, it will win. In all other cases, the Titan wins.