Posts from Round table

The point of trying to prove anything to Vlk, if he denies the very concept of skill in Heroes and sincerely, apparently, believes that the outcome depends primarily on the map layout. Any player above average level understands that besides getting this favorable layout, you also have to capitalize on it, and this can be done in different ways. You can, say, clear the respawns in a week, or you can do it in 10 days, and those three days contain a colossal difference in the level of play. (censored) ...What can you do - to each their own.

Samurai (Fortress) def Readme (Inferno) 8mm6a 141
As I already said, the victory was easy, simply because the opponent offered no resistance throughout the game.
I'll say right away: my opponent complains that he wasn't given any hives or cans, however, in my first 9 resps which I scouted from 111 to 122, there wasn't a single can and one very distant hive. One plus: the external dwellings were great for me (as they were for the opponent): bulls, gnolls (very far), basilisks, lizards, and hydras (strong guard for the first week). On the first week, I took the max gnome with an incomplete and already slightly battered army; I had to leave 2 bulls. Finally, at 122, I found a can on the grass—decided to take it without checking: turned out to be a 3-stack with a upgraded unit. Parallelly, I'm leveling Alkin; he helps a lot in developing resps through scouting. Identified where the opponent is—he doesn't come out, and neither does Landukh with him. There are 2 Dragon Utopias in the center: I can't take them now, but of course, I don't want to leave them for the opponent. Took the computer's castle—the tea-colored one, decided to rush to his brother—the red castle, from there there should be a road leading to the treasure zone. But there was no need to run to the treasure zone: at 124, three cans were found nearby and another external dwelling of angels. After that, it was simple: 3 Dragon Utopias fell (all without control), I spread out in different directions, finally got wings, then a blue hat, killed another computer-castle, upgraded archangels, and took the opponent's castle at 137. According to preliminary estimates, I saw all resps except for 3: the native computers and the opponent's dead-end village. At 141, as expected, I arrived at this village, where Marius died, leaving me books of water, air, etc.

Now about the opponent:

Standard scenario for mm6: about 50 goats on the first week, about 100+ on the second and any Dragon Utopia is ours, along with all cans/hives—who else can do that on VT???

1) NO, NOT STANDARD. The opponent was given 2 dog external dwellings right under the castle; in total, on the first week he grabbed these external dwellings: 2 dogs, 1 imp, 1 gorgon, 1 ifrit—I believe such a layout is significantly above average, but there were only 37 goats on the first week :p. In principle, Readme said right away that he couldn't do 50, maybe only in uber-fat layouts. Well, maybe in single player on same-seed.

On VT Inferno was clearly reworked, it competes on equal terms with Swamp

2) No, it doesn't compete. The game showed that Readme with his Inferno could not create any competition.

even ATG said so!

3) I already said, ATG might say so because he has serious skill. From the game, it turned out that the opponent has neither tempo, nor skill, nor knowledge of 8mm. Average level. At 127 he got control, but didn't use it at all. The opponent circled his own resp for the first 3 weeks; it's unclear why he even challenged me to a game: he could have shown in single player via mikoge how he can cut demons.

readme (19:45:33 16/10/2010)
What I meant was—you can cut 50 pieces on the first week, but that might hit your tempo. And I'm not playing for fun with you, but seriously. Which means, I need tempo.

:D :D :D

Samurai (20:24:54 16/10/2010)
if I win, you promise not to blame the layout and other things and publicly admit that the Inferno castle is not top-tier and apologize for speaking so stupidly about it. if you win, then I will admit the Inferno castle is top-tier and publicly say that I spoke stupidly about it

Samurai (20:25:01 16/10/2010)
deal?

readme (20:26:01 16/10/2010)
yes

and here after the game :

I wonder, can a victory be hard when you have all the cans and hives, and the opponent has not one?

here are the saves:

http://zalil.ru/29895394

Despite everything, as a player README earned very great respect:
1) always adhered to the agreed time
2) during the game, communication in ICQ was polite and professional. This mostly shows that the person understands: disagreements are disagreements, but a game is a game. RESPECT. (censored).
3) mostly (though not always) cooperative regarding discussions of rules and settings. For this, a separate thank you and separate respect from my side.

Result: thanks readme for the game. As I understand it, we won't prove anything to each other with any games; I see no point in winning a second game. Therefore, I have a request to the opponent: play with TERM instead of me. He craves a game with readme. I think I satisfied the opponent's challenge, and I hope readme will respond to TERM similarly.

No, I haven't seen it. And for Samurai, is 21 archangels on week 3 a common occurence, or was it still lucky with the layout? :)

I haven't watched the recording, take a look at the save files, I'll even tell you where to look: 3 Griffin Conservatories and an external dwelling of angels were on the respawn of the PURPLE castle, scheme 8MM6a here (/topic/6313/) — for a template expert like you, this apparently means the same for Samurai. Although any player who knows the template at least a little understands that here both red and blue have equal chances — it depends on the player who finds them first (primarily) and grabs them.
The layout is below average — a total mess: 2 external dwellings of hounds near the start = 4+4=8 demons; external dwelling of gogs=4 demons, if you add 1 from town; external dwelling of imps=2 demons; if you add 3 from town, external dwelling of efreet, a dream for Inferno, but they weren't placed — all along the road. So, purely from external dwellings, blue got 14 horns, and apparently the lack of secondary skills is to blame — but who was stopping you from taking fast roads and with 2 logistic heroes (there were Gunnar and Kyrre)? And as for the pictures revealing 117 territory, you can compare on the minimaps how the scouting was done in week one: red revealed more than twice the area and 5 zones completely + 2 partially, compared to one for blue — and in that territory there is no Griffin Conservatory and no Dragon Fly Hive.

The point of proving anything to Vlk is lost if he denies the very concept of skill in Heroes and sincerely, apparently, believes that the starting layout is what matters most. Any player above average level understands that besides getting a good layout, you also have to execute it, and that can be done in different ways. You can, say, clear respawns in a week, or you can do it in 10 days, and those three days make a colossal difference in the level of play. (censored) . What can you do - to each their own.

(censored) Oelm - please drop the habit of attributing your own (censored) thoughts to others - (censored). I acknowledge the difference in skill and NEVER said that I'm a super strong player - but first win a couple of online tournaments, get the pictures that are in my signature (even though I very rarely post victories over completely unskilled newcomers) - and then you can (censored) criticize me.

There's no need to look for a black cat in a dark room, especially when it's not there ;)

It's not worth looking for allies of your "enemy" - anyone who is an associate of them.

P.S. I was just caught by the phrase "/more than possible (with or without)/". I didn't care who would win, but now tell me who won the bet (???) if there was one, and if it was recorded /50 goats or a victory in a game or something else/. After each game, everyone tries to take credit (a little), and claims they proved something to someone... that's right :smile53:

I'm observing from the sidelines and will chime in a bit.
Samurai, Readme – respect and appreciation to both of you, primarily for your attitude towards your opponent.
Vlk – ease up a bit on the turns.
Oelm, the posts you deleted at Pasha's request, between us, warrant a couple of preventative bans. Thank you, Pasha doesn't have the authority to award points, and I don't care. My advice to you is to calm down a bit and express your thoughts in a more understandable way.

Once again, I confirm.
I spawned down below, near the table with 2 external dwellings of dogs, a Dragon Utopia very close by, along the path. Next — there are two roads, one to the computer, the other to a village, as I figured, but both are half-empty, meaning I would lose several turns without fights — where you need to cut down vital demons, according to the game's conditions, so I cut down whatever I came across, also took two external dwellings of imps and one of gogs. At the end of the week I broke into the Efreet dwelling. Goats, I repeat, I sheared exactly 37 (there were 38, I lost one). Was short of fifty, because I lost tempo and didn't take either the village or the computer's castle.
In week 2 I decided to take the Dragon Utopia naturally, but had no money at all, so along the path I broke into a sword, then found 2 more external dwellings of imps, a Medusa dwelling, a Dwarf dwelling, an external dwelling of devils, and I crashed into the Dragon Utopia and ate it at 127 with 80 goats, got control, but had only 5 mana. At home 1-6 in the castle with cages.
In week 3 I decide to gobble up a small treasure near the barbarian village (I found a Dragon Utopia there), scouting never found Griffin Conservatory or Dragon Fly Hives, little of the map revealed, my mistake.
There was a contact with the opponent involving spoons, ending in alternating buyouts.
I found another external dwelling of devils, ate a Pandora's Box, something else not so significant, and then a Dragon Utopia, took it on auto-battle, don't even remember which one it was, but it gave decent artifacts, boosted my stats, but the opponent was scarier.
The opponent on 137 with Alkin took my undefended capital in one turn.
Scout finds a Griffin Conservatory and 2 Dragon Fly Hives not far from the village, and since I have full control and decent stats, all that's left is to mosh, I crashed there with Marusya, and she had no moves left, she spent the night on an imp in the village. I decided to risk a move like that, although from an Air Magic view I spotted that the opponent could DD from above (there was also his secondary hero). Marusya died in the village, giving up all artifacts. Even if she had a mosh, 100+ goats, pits, 13 efreet, 3 devils wouldn't have lasted a couple of rounds against 21 archdevils and 36-38 dragons and other swamp trash.

What I want to say is that in MM6 it's harder to get fifty, I agree. But in SM it's much easier, if only because of the L size, secondary heroes nearby, this strategy will be completed with less loss of tempo, or maybe even without it.

I'm ready to play with Term, if he still wants to and is fully armed. Samurai and I can tussle some other time, and preferably on SoD, I don't like WT :)

broke into the Dragon Utopia and ate it on 127 with 80 goats

Yeah, a completely adequate pace for Inferno; that's roughly how it's played — you slaughter 70-80 goats and take down the Dragon Utopia on 125-127.

Of course, it can be better, but worse too. That's approximately what I was talking about when justifying the balance of Inferno.

It's not worth looking for allies of your "enemy" – anyone's comrade.

P.S.: I was just hooked by the phrase "/more than possible (with or without)/". I didn't care who would win, but now tell me who won the bet (???) if there was one, and if it was recorded /50 goats or a victory in the game or something else/. After each game, everyone tries to take credit (a little), and who proved what to whom... exactly :smile53:

For me, the main thing was that Inferno is far from being top-tier in Warlords. No one won the bet. Let's play with readme this time, 8x12, let's see... So far, it's 1-0, not in favor of Inferno.

I'm not looking for allies, and even less for enemies. If you're so interested in what was meant, take the save from game 111 and try to play as the Samurai. If you get a better result than he did the first time, I'll virtually shake your hand, and when we meet, I'll buy you a beer...

Warlock - be a little more lenient on the turns.
Oelm, your posts that Pasha deleted are, to put it mildly, grounds for a couple of preventative bans. Luckily, Pasha doesn't have the rights to award points, and I don't care. My advice to you is to calm down a bit and express your thoughts in a more civilized manner.

There won't be any leniency on the turns until those who constantly and rudely insult me are punished. I've received points and bans for much more harmless posts. Why, when it's time to punish others, the ban hammer suddenly stops working on me is unclear, and I don't consider it fair. A forum with such discipline doesn't hold much value for me, so I'll write whatever I want, and if I get banned again, I won't be too upset.

For me, it was fundamentally important that Inferno is far from being top-tier in War of the Throne. No one won the bet. We'll play with the readme, this time 8x12, let's see... For now, it's 1-0, not in favor of Inferno.

Here, I couldn't even adhere to the opinions/that Inferno is amazing in War of the Throne/, because I played only a few games in War of the Throne.

I'm not looking for allies, let alone enemies. If you're so interested in what was meant, take the save from turn 111 and try playing as the Samurai. If you get a better result than he did the first time, I'll virtually shake your hand, and when we meet, I'll buy you a beer...

I understand what was meant by those words and I love such games, fully immersed in the game/100.5% focused)) and with nerves under control.

Regarding replaying the game - it's not interesting to me, as I think it's not interesting to you either. You can do better/possibly/or worse (I read the report, understood what and how it was played, if 70-80% of the map was explored) - that's not the point, the point is to outmaneuver the opponent (a person), not just to play a single game for the result.

And we can have a beer when we meet, if that happens :smile13:

There will definitely be no easier treatment for those who constantly and rudely insult me. I received points and bans for much more harmless posts. Why, when it's time to punish others, the ability to ban suddenly disappears, I don't understand, and I don't think it's fair. A forum with such discipline has little value for me, so I will write what I want, and if I get banned again, I won't be too upset.

Discipline should start with oneself, and this doesn't apply only to you, Valentin, but to all of us. Sometimes, I was also unhappy with some posts directed at me, but there is always a way to express your thought without insulting the opponent. And when refuting something, it is not necessary to insult.
Perhaps it is for the better that there is currently no way to assign points, since the assessment can be subjective, and quickly and permanently removing a player with a certain nickname from Voldu is unlikely to benefit Voldu.

I assume the result will be: the game won't be finished /there are many reasons.../

Apparently, all the reasons have fallen through...

who knows the result? enlighten me... did the bet pay off or not?

Who did you bet with? or were you just playing in single-player :D :D :D. It's trendy now:cool:

Looks like all the reasons have gone down the drain...

Who were you playing against? Or were you just playing in single-player? :D :D :D. That's what's trendy now:cool:

I wanted to be rude :D, but after that blunder in ROCOOP, the keys aren't working well ;)

Some kind of copper basin, the only one who guessed the outcome of the first day of the game. It's somehow awkward for me (such a noob) to offer you a match :smile04:

Congratulations on the victory, Philip.

Tonight, late in the evening, the second part of the "Marlezon Ballet" begins. Monere vs Marius. 8xm12a. Tickets for the stream in the VT chat will be available around 10:30 PM :)