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In reply to KillAndAction
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KillAndAction
And then, Darkness (I've probably written about this 8 times already) isn't a cure-all against Orcs.
Prove it. Show a replay where an Orc easily defeats Darkness. It's not enough to just write about it; you need to provide evidence. I've already posted a replay, and I can post it again, where an Orc loses, albeit not to Necropolis, but with practically no army.
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день



In reply to Саня Изи
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The point is that we're talking about a confrontation between an Orc and Haven, not an Orc and Necropolis... And you need to look for reputation. I have a lot of it: more than 300. And I don't quite understand why it's needed: it all depends on the ratio of players' experience, the specific situation on the map, etc.
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
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I understand that everything depends on the players and the map, but you say that Darkness isn't a cure-all... However, I believe it's the most reliable way to defeat an Orc – simple and proven. I'm personally (and not just me) interested in how an Orc can defend against Darkness. I'd be happy to see such a replay (a light-based one, of course).
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день



In reply to Саня Изи
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There aren't many people who enjoy playing late into the night. And I'm not one of them... I just don't understand how anyone can spend 3 months grinding. When you can achieve the same result in a month and a half...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
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Never mind. Just share a replay where a reasonably decent Orc fights a reasonably decent Knight, with Darkness and Subjugation skills, and wins. Then I'll evaluate the replay and draw conclusions about whether Darkness is a panacea or not.
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день



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I don't quite understand what the problem is with the Knight being able to learn both Light and Dark magic (naturally, at a later level). And with decent artifacts that boost luck, you can easily take two magic schools.
Doesn't anyone understand the usefulness of combinations like: mass slow + mass haste = we won't even see the Orc on the battlefield! And if the Orc has a high attack, then mass stone skin + mass weakness or confusion!
Only after a couple of mass spells can you start playing around with powerful spells!
:smile16:+:smile24: = this is not nonsense at all; if you haven't seen it in practice, that's your problem!

За кланы! За кровь!
In reply to Ereb
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Okay, Haven and Dungeon. What else should we download?
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
In reply to Ereb
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Why defend against Darkness? The best defense is offense. It's quite possible to make it so that a Knight using Dark spells simply becomes irrelevant. For battles with large armies in long games against the Knight, the so-called "Maxim Sorokin attack" is perfectly suitable (its second name is "frenzied assault tactic"). antonag07 described it in detail here:
Maxim Sorokin Attack The attentive reader may have already encountered this surname before. Now is the time to get acquainted with one of the many developments of this talented person, known in the Heroes world as Psionic. The attacking potential of his brilliant idea is most clearly revealed in prolonged games, when it is possible not only to gather a considerable number of troops under your banner but also to acquire good artifacts and, perhaps even more importantly, give your hero the necessary set of skills and abilities. We will start with the latter (remembering Shakespeare's saying: "Last but not least"). In general, it would be useful to immediately mention that it was developed as an alternative response to Elven aggression - in the final battle, almost half of their troops (and under Wingael's command - practically all) manage to go before the opponent's turn and destroy most of our army, and consequently, we are doomed to defeat. However, this can be fought against (and should be!). As in ancient times, everything here rests on three pillars – namely, the skills: "Speed Aura", "Storm Wind" and "Sharp Mind". Let us provide a complete list of the necessary skills and abilities: skillful "Leadership" ("Recruitment" + "Speed Aura" (required) and "Battle Frenzy" (recommended)); skillful "Light Negation" ("Resist Light" + "Storm Wind" (required); "Fire Shield" (recommended for breaking through, but may also be useful in the finale)); skillful "Logistics" ("Scouting" + "Sharp Mind" (required, but usually taken before the final battles by retraining at the mentor, and before that, during the preliminary clearing of neutrals, the recommended "Pathfinding" is practiced in conjunction with "Warfare" and "Pillage")); skillful "Attack" ("Tactics" (required - most often relevant for neutralizing the enemy's similar ability; very important: against Nibros (Inferno faction), you need to take any other skill, as he neutralizes our "Tactics" with his specialization while simultaneously retaining the ability to use his own), "Berserk" (recommended, but in our opinion almost mandatory) + "Retribution," which can be replaced with "Stunning Blow"); for the fifth one - choose between "Defense" (in most cases it is preferable) and "Luck," which seems more appropriate in this context, especially when enhanced with "Soldier's Luck" and "Magic Resistance." Those who are able to combine disparate factors will immediately notice that key importance in the proposed development scheme is given to the "Speed" indicator - all skills affecting it are used here. Therefore, a good addition to it is the artifact "Boots of Speed" and at least two items from the "Embrace of Death" set - although personally I would prefer the "Dragon Leggings" instead of boots. Among creatures, leaders are required (they support Cyclops), divided into 2-3 detachments, Daughters of Earth (also divided into 2-3 detachments) and 1 detachment of free Cyclopes (although their speed and initiative are 1 unit lower than those of Blood Cyclopes), taken thanks to "Crushing Blow". At the very beginning of the battle, our daughters cast "Haste" on the leaders and cyclopes, the barbarian hero shouts "War Cry" (not only a significant increase in the "Attack" parameter but also, most importantly: +1 to speed!) and after that you won't envy the enemy troops caught under the power of crushing Cyclopes.
Against the Knight, it is better not to take Tactics because he will likely take it himself, and 2 Tactics will push the distance further apart rather than shorten it. Let him arrange his troops closer to us, thinking that he will break through with Paladins and Archangels into our ranks.
Ereb
Does anyone really understand the usefulness of combinations: mass slow + mass haste = we won't even see Orcs on ATB!
More likely, we won't see the Knight's units on ATB, because the initiative of Griffins and Archangels will be reduced by 20% by Storm Wind, and our "supporting" stacks will have an initiative of 16 and 15 (without artifacts) when entering the battle at level 1 rage.

I already posted a replay with a similar scheme, against a Ranger whose army has much more initiative than the Knight's army. Even without artifacts for initiative, the "supporting" stacks almost always go before the hero with Sharp Mind (10 test starts of the battle again against a Ranger with Sharp Mind):



Shamans accelerate Leaders, Leaders support the attack stack of Cyclopes, and they tear the enemy army to shreds. It's very simple.
Я видел, как Небо окутала Тьма, и Небо смирилось с Судьбой,
Горящие реки сходили с ума, пытаясь остаться водой,
Земля пропустила коварный удар, раскрывшись на шаге вперёд,
Взлетел разъярённым драконом Огонь и понял, что тоже умрёт...
In reply to Mdance
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Yes, I agree, there is such a tactic where the leaders are surrounded by friendly units on all sides and only give orders to our troops. Moreover, this tactic is quite good because as the battle continues and the enemy stacks dwindle, our orcs gain a very decent amount of rage points (in 5-6 rounds of battle, they gain an average of 1600 to 2300 rage points). The only difficulty with this tactic is the need for skillful and strict control of our stacks... Well, as they say, only the player's experience can help here.
If, for example, we have a dwarven set, then the berserker is no longer a threat to us. With domination, everything is simple: having a frightening roar, we are not afraid of blindness due to the orders of the leaders. Only mass weakness, mass debuff, and mass slow remain: we can fight against these with the rage points mentioned above and the corresponding battle cries. It will be more difficult to deal with mass disspell, of course...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
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We've already seen and discussed this replay by Mdance. In general, this tactic is viable, but what will the Orc do when the Cyclops are under his control and the Shamans and Chieftains are eliminated?
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день



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Yeah, I know the Orcs' shock troop tactic... I've seen it myself!
There are some misunderstandings here:
It's better not to take Tactics against the Knight, because the Knight will most likely take it himself, and 2 Tactics will increase, not decrease, the distance. Let him position his troops closer to us, thinking that he will break through with Paladins and Archangels.
If the Knight has trained Paladins and rushes forward to attack, it means the Orc is in trouble because his rage definitely won't save him from that much damage + Archangels can help without getting into the thick of it - they can resurrect!
The Orc will immediately fall (if he's unlucky) or kill most of them (usually the free Cyclops!). And it will be easier, the ability of the Berserker will not work as well (or rather, it won't work at all!) because the Paladins will have more space to maneuver with Tactics!
And what will the Orc do without his key stack!?
...And they're also boasting about the Dwarven artifacts there, etc.! And what about the Haven hero, is he just sitting there?!
And the Haven hero has an empty inventory without artifacts for initiative (Dragon Shield or rings for initiative, and so on.... + mass speed and let's see who will move faster!)
..........................
Regarding skills (level 31-34):
Offense: Tactics, Battle Balance + Impact.
Defense: Resistance, Immovable, or Dodge.
Leadership: all perks for Empathy!
Light: Protector, Righteous Might....
Dark: Master of Curses, Master of Mind.....
Only one level left until level 34, you can send him to Blessing or whatever the situation requires.
Artifacts should be as many as possible for luck!! You can use the Knight's set, but instead of the +1 Defense amulet, it's better to look for something else! + fountains, etc!
And two Necromancer artifacts are desirable, their bonus will be useful to us!
The rest for defense, attack, and initiative!
If the Orc has Dwarven Boots, then mass speed + mass confusion (by the way, this spell will also be needed!), then either Subjugation or mass weakness or mass stone skin!
The problem is how the Orc will counter this, unless he has high initiative and attack! (if the Orc's attack significantly exceeds our defense, then the first spell should be mass stone skin!)
And if the Orc doesn't take Tactics from the Knight, the advantages in positioning casters and archers, Armored Warriors or Zealots can protect us from Centaurs and Cyclops (throwing Goblins)!
The situation is clearly not in the Orc's favor, UNLESS he has an advantage in initiative, then the Cyclops will quickly come to us(((but you can sacrifice Griffins to block the approach to the main troops!

За кланы! За кровь!
In reply to Ereb
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For Ereb:
My message considered the possibility of an Orc facing off against Light and Darkness at Haven. And that's it.
If you had immediately posted the entire build, my answer would have been more detailed...
In total:
3 racial traits - all
3 attack traits - tactics and retribution
3 defense traits - evasion and staunch defense
3 leadership traits - speed aura and battle frenzy
3 luck traits - soldier and barbarian luck
3 Light or Darkness suppression - all starting perks.

And what other artifacts besides the gnome artifact...?

For Lordesat:
Terrifying Roar is a great counter to Subjugate.
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"
In reply to Саня Изи
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Lordesat
We've already seen this replay from Mdance and discussed it. This tactic is viable, but what will the Orc do when the Cyclops are controlled and the Shamans and Chieftains are destroyed?
I would phrase the question differently. What will the Knight do with a controlled Cyclops unit (the initiative of the latter will be significantly reduced due to the low magic stat of humans) when his army is being relentlessly finished off by Chieftains and Shamans?

Added 1 minute ago
KillAndAction

For Lordesat:
The "Frightening Roar" spell perfectly counters control.
and this is just one of many ways to counter "Control." :smile12:
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Firstly, who said that it's consequence-free? If we use our quick wits and subdue the Cyclops first, then the key stack is lost, and we can easily deal with the leaders. And three stacks of Shamans pose no danger. The Knights will quickly take care of everything, and for dessert, the subdued Cyclops, who can't do anything. And I would like to know what methods are used to counter subdual?
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день



In reply to Саня Изи
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Well, split up and deal with the goblins and the blight, I don't know what else to suggest, to be honest.
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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ЛИДЕР Клана"ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Рейтинг: Латник
Вступление в клан "Хранители небесных врат"

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