Round table — Online Tournaments

Kluka

9/4/2010 1:52 PM UTC

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Wicc

By the way, the presence of a known template layout IMHO rather spoils the game, making it more predictable. Ideally, one would play on templates like Anarchy, where the layout is unknown in advance.

I cannot understand why it is believed that the template layout is unknown on Anarchy.
There are only 12 templates. In 2 of them, there are 3 colored Castles, and in one template they are close together, while in the other they are on the contrary.
Then there is a difference in the strength of gate guards, 6000 or 3000. There is ГО or not.
If the template has not yet been determined, it is usually identified after breaking into the neighboring respawn just as on 8mm6 it is determined where this or that road leads.

When I played 2 games in the EliminationChamber tournament on Anarchy, after 3-4 days I already knew which template I was playing on.

In reply to Lider1

Medium_HP

9/4/2010 2:06 PM UTC

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Lider1

*by the way, I noticed a mistake; it says that stables cannot be generated in the same zone, but I often had 2 stables in a row =)*

It seems that this doesn't happen in the standard map editor – there are never more than one stable or well. In new templates and recently edited old ones, duplication happens quite often. It remains to be assumed that the "culprits" are modern template creators.

FireToSky

is there any information about how many monsters should guard something?

It seems that no one doubts anymore that everything is tied to the ratio of the value of the guarded objects and the guarding monsters. You can see the value values here http://dreamcatcher.metroland.ru/templates/index.html
The problem is that, in addition to the actual ratio of value, coefficients must also be applied to calculate the number of monsters (Vik, I think, calculated them), and the result is obtained with a significant variation. In my opinion, it is more convenient to gain personal experience and use it.

Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс

In reply to Kluka

Wicc

9/4/2010 2:22 PM UTC

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Kluka

I can't understand why it's believed that the template scheme is unknown on Anarchy.
There are 12 templates in total. In 2 of them, there are 3 painted castles, and in one template they are adjacent, while in the other they are the opposite.
Next comes the difference in the strength of the passage guards, 6000 or 3000. There is either ГО or not.
If a template hasn't been determined yet, it is usually identified after penetrating a neighboring respawn, just like on 8mm6 you figure out where a given road leads.

When I played 2 games in the EliminationChamber tournament on Anarchy, I already knew which template I was playing on after 3-4 days.

This is for those who have dug into the inner workings of Anarchy :). The rest play "by the instruments."

In reply to Medium_HP

FireToSky

9/4/2010 2:37 PM UTC

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Medium_HP

It seems that this doesn't happen in the campaign – stables and wells are always limited to one. In new and recently edited old templates, duplication occurs quite often. It remains to be assumed that modern template creators are "to blame."

It seems that no one doubts anymore that everything is tied to the ratio of the value of the protected objects and the protecting monsters. You can see the values here: http://dreamcatcher.metroland.ru/templates/index.html
The problem is that, in addition to the actual ratio of values, coefficients (which Vic, I think, calculated) must also be applied to calculate the number of monsters, and the result is quite variable. In my opinion, it is more convenient to gain personal experience and use it.

These values don't help me in practice. Personal experience is useful, but there isn't that much of it, and even with it, you don't always guess correctly, and how to apply the values to the specific protection of an object is even more unclear to me:confused:

In reply to FireToSky

Medium_HP

9/4/2010 2:51 PM UTC

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FireToSky

These values don't really help me in practice. Personal experience is useful, but there isn't that much of it, and even with it, you don't always guess correctly. And how to apply these values to the specific defense of an object is even more unclear to me :confused:

You take the value of the object (or the sum, if there are several objects), divide it by the value of the monster, multiply it by the zone coefficient http://dreamcatcher.metroland.ru/templates/intro.html, and there's also a tricky coefficient that takes into account the random spread (this is for Vika).
The problem is that the spread turns out to be quite large, and also that no one knows the value of some objects (like hiding places, for example).

To train the skill faster, I tried to guess the number of monsters before each battle, and then checked the result.

Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс

FireToSky

9/4/2010 2:55 PM UTC

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in short, as before, you'll have to rely on divine help and heroic strength :)

In reply to Medium_HP

Lider1

9/4/2010 8:41 PM UTC

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Medium_HP

On SM, I think this doesn't happen - stables and wells are always no more than one.

No, not at all.

I saw it with my own eyes, specifically on SM - two stables placed right next to each other in a row.

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to Lider1

Medium_HP

9/4/2010 11:23 PM UTC

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Lider1

No, not at all.

I saw it with my own eyes, specifically on an SM — two merged stables in a row.

Are you sure it's not a fresh SM, for example from the universal RMG? On the old RMG from 2004, I don't think I've seen anything like that.

Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс

Lider1

9/5/2010 7:20 AM UTC

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I don't know if it's a fresh or slightly stale file :D. The rmg was downloaded from the forum in the section for online game rules. And there are doubts about whether these smoke effects actually make a difference.

+ it should be taken into account that this doesn't happen in every generation (I don't know the proportions, of course, maybe once in 100 or 300, I don't know).

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

Wicc

9/5/2010 7:23 AM UTC

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RMG mapmaking has never changed. Whether it's a universal RMG or not doesn't affect the situation.

In reply to Wicc

Medium_HP

9/5/2010 2:15 PM UTC

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It seems it really isn't an issue with the rmg; I generated 15 maps each on 3 different cm-s in SoD and a few more mini-nostalgias, and didn't see any double stables.
On Lite, they were duplicated as early as the second map.
So if Lider1 meant SoD, the explanations could be:
1.Generator error
2.Tourist's error
3.Lider1's error
4.Lider1 was incredibly lucky - he saw something that simply cannot happen :D

Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс

Wlk777

9/5/2010 2:35 PM UTC

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I've also seen doubled stables on skirmish maps a few times. It appears in roughly one out of every 50 games.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

Kluka

9/5/2010 2:45 PM UTC

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Found the game I was looking for, the one with doubled stables.

In reply to Kluka

Medium_HP

9/5/2010 3:48 PM UTC

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So, it seems there’s still an issue with the generator. Duplicate stables are always located next to each other. I think if the developers allowed for duplication, we would see respawn points with two or more stables in different parts of the map. Has anyone encountered something like that?

Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс