Posts from [ANNOUNCEMENT] Heroes 3: World Tournament - an add-on for tournament games.

And to recall and utilize the old Tower style with the new development speeds, there's no need to reinvent the wheel — imho, one mine of each resource on the Tower's respawn would be quite sufficient ;) is it even possible to cobble this together quickly — we'd test it right away :)

Mines are nonsense. Only needed at 200%. At 160%, resources are sufficient.

The main trouble is the low unit speed (hence the need for upgrades), the second trouble is the cost of building and buying (especially considering upgrades), the third trouble is the small range of damage dealers, essentially only Gremlins and Nagas deal any damage, and well, the fourth semi-trouble is the lack of normal heroes.

Say, for Castle to get 6 Cavaliers, you need to spend 6000 on buying un-upgraded ones and enter the stables. For Tower, you need to spend on the Naga upgrade and buying upgraded Nagas 11400 gold, not counting resources and construction tempo.

Therefore, it is proposed to supplement the Tower's assortment with rarely built Genies, Giants, and also reduce the prices for building and buying. And also tweak the heroes a bit regarding starting skills (or strengthen the skills themselves).

Plus, make the prospect of mass-producing Titans realistic — a very serious buff for Tower. For this, Giants need to be placeable in week 1 without hindering development, preferably with Castle. And to make the upgrade prices lighter.

Mines are useless. They are only needed at 200%. At 160%, there are enough resources.

In the past, all more or less decent Tournaments were held at 200%.
Now they have declined to 160%, and even then, the top players like to play at 200%)).
Who are we balancing for?
And then there's always the "черк" ;) By the way, in Anarchy and Balance-Random, the Tower often appeared, and due to its powerful start (someone mentioned the Miners here), it could even win the entire game.

The main problem is the low speed of units (hence the need for upgrades), the second problem is the cost of building and buying (especially considering the upgrades), the third problem is the small range of damage dealers, in fact, only Gremlins and Nagas deal damage, and the fourth, semi-problem, is the lack of decent heroes.

If we forget about the damage from combat, as well as casting spells on troops by "scholars" at the expense of "students" - even the book for Warriors hints at this. :)
It's enough in the early stages, but then...
Yes, in the modern game, the pace of battles has increased, and the potential upgrade of units has added to it, and the vector of magical development has shifted from Towers to Pandoras and the enhancements of Mermaids, which still implies battles.... but in my opinion, giving the "scholar," for example, the ability to cast a spell (or even a mass spell, depending on the skill level) before the battle, or permanently for all battles of the day, would be balanced for the Tower, without changing its essence, and for the second skill.... when meeting an opponent, this would be neutralized as a tactic.... I think it's worth considering.

For example, to get 6 gr. horses, the Castle needs to spend 6000 on buying un-upgraded ones and go to the stable. The Tower, on the other hand, needs to spend 11400 coins on upgrading a Nagash and buying upgraded Nags, not counting resources and building time.

No one argues with the high cost of Nagas (you can also remember cheap unique units), but Horn balanced this by lowering the purchase prices for level 1 units and raising them for level 2 units. ;)

Therefore, it is proposed to supplement the Tower's assortment with rarely built Giants, as well as reduce the costs of building and buying. And also, slightly adjust the heroes in terms of starting skills (or enhance the skills themselves).

The "scholar" skill, which the Tower has a lot of, isn't a "papal" skill? ;) Okay, let's say that pre-casting is only used when there are, for example, mages in the army (and mass-casting when there are archmages) - we can test and balance it. ;) And reducing prices - yes, I wrote that Horn did this for the Tower in the fixes, where it is demonstrably stronger on most maps (the only drawback is the low speed, which can also be solved with pre-haste).

Plus, make the prospect of upgrading Titans a reality, a very serious enhancement for the Tower. For this, Giants need to be able to be placed on level 1 without harming development, preferably with the Castle. And the upgrade prices should be lower.

Sometimes Behemoths are placed on level 2.
Sometimes Dragons are placed on level 2 of the second week - theoretically, practically, almost never.... it's clearly easier to upgrade Giants than red-green ones. ;)
The Tower's feature is magic, and its development needs to be adjusted so that it can dominate both in early encounters (it used to dominate, because there was not much to fear from Angels and Ducks from the opponent) and in a prolonged game. :) The absence of the Orb and Cloak, on the one hand, inspires optimism, but on the other hand, high magic is now not Castle-dependent, but Treasure-dependent.... I don't remember if I suggested such a perversion as learning spells from scrolls/books by an "eagle-eye" with their subsequent disappearance from the book :D :D At the same time, of course, a hero who simply carries a book will not have spells from it... but these are all perversions that strongly affect the gameplay, which need to be tested for a long time and carefully.... on the other hand, the gameplay has also changed a lot from the traditionally old one, when castles were somehow balanced.... but I am still not for unification, but for diversity and strategies, it would just be good if everyone could dominate in the realities, and not just the armored ones :smile14:

Added 8 minutes ago
or maybe we can just do this: instead of giving the Tower vision from the start (why is this?), give it a magic guild? ;)
This is a logical move: Warriors have a book! This provides tempo, an increase in salary, and adds flexibility. :)
And also, slightly reduce the purchase prices for higher-level units

There was a suggestion somewhere in the text to bring back scrolls into the game and allow a student to cast them without losing mana and at the student's current level. With the scroll being consumed in the process. This would immediately make the student skill equivalent to that of a Priest.

Plus, there would be less gold involved, and the pace would be slower, which would benefit both mages and the Tavern.

A guild from the start seems excessive and ideologically incorrect, in my opinion.

In HotA there was an interesting script that gave an additional ability to Eagle Eye. Upon leveling up, the hero could choose a spell of their choice.
Basic - 1 or 2 spells
Advanced - 2 or 3 spells
Expert - 3 or 4 spells
It would be logical to attach this skill to Literacy. It would be fun. Although it could also be attached to Eagle Eye. :D

In my opinion, having a guild from the very beginning is too advantageous and ideologically incorrect.

However, considering the current state of the Tower, it might not be that advantageous.... And regarding the ideological aspect, as I mentioned, no one has books available from the start except for the Warriors... ;)
Moreover, the guild is slightly weakened by the fact that the starting hero no longer needs to buy the book.

Well, I wouldn't say that Tower is in a bad spot on MM6 and similar templates. After all, Griffin Conservatories and Hives are taken just fine by Tower as well, and they are distributed regardless of faction. Tower is simply, on average, one or two days behind in tempo due to the difficulty of buying and the need for upgrades, hence the troubles. But the variance in map layouts is much higher. Plus, there is a trading mechanic that partially corrects Tower's finances. In Schism's Race II, if you remember, 2 out of the 3 registered Towers made it to the semi-finals.

Well, I wouldn't say that the Tower is completely in the same boat as others on MM6 and similar templates. After all, conss and hives are taken normally by the Tower too, and they deal damage regardless of racial affiliation.

The Tower just lags behind in tempo by a day or two on average due to difficulties with buying out and the need for upgrades; that's where the troubles come from. But the variance across different layouts is much higher.

Plus, there is the bargaining mechanism, which partially fixes the Tower's finances.

In Crazy Races-2, if you remember, 2 Towers out of the 3 entered made it to the semifinals.

)))
I'm kind of too lazy to register on bay again, so I don't remember... but in skilled hands, any Castle rules :)
It's just my opinion that the Tower is least tailored toward the general power trend of game development
and taking those first conss as a Tower isn't exactly a walk in the park either ;)
and if you don't get lucky with hives-conss, it's actually possible to enter the Dragon Utopia later than other Castles, which take it on their 3rd (or even 2nd with experience) native growth + maybe some external dwelling
but overall yes -- the bargaining system levels things out a bit..... sigh -- if only there were cap downgrades!.... :D :D full-weight mili is too fat for them imho, although it might be easier to make

I would like to suggest some improvements for the new versions.
1. In auto-battles, losses of less than ~50 HP should not be counted. I think the reason is obvious.
2. The value of artifacts should be changed. The Handcuffs should definitely be classified as relics. It's practically the most overpowered artifact. And the Sandals, Gladius, and Guardian's Shield should also be downgraded to major artifacts, as their value is really not that high. IMHO.

In Heroes of Might and Magic, there was an interesting script that granted an additional ability, the Eagle Eye. Upon leveling up, the hero could choose a spell.

Interesting...
But wouldn't it be possible to choose ANY overpowered spell? If it's technically feasible, perhaps it would be better to allow choosing a spell from a random set (for example, from 10 spells of the first level, 8 spells of the second level, etc.).

This is what it looks like:

The championship in Michurinsk, among other things, gave me the opportunity to finally chat with Asm and Mee in person. Everyone knows that Asm is currently busy with things far removed from Heroes, which is why he isn't finishing the WoG. In this regard, I made the following proposal: Ivor and I will refine the scripts, and Asm will implement them in WoG. Therefore, it's time to start a public discussion of the proposed changes. Not so long ago, I conducted a broad survey of players, sending out a list of changes. However, during the discussion, Asm and Mee expressed the opinion that there is not much point in implementing both global and minor changes at once, simply because it is difficult to predict the cumulative effect. That is, various +/- adjustments to the number of starting units, prices, skills, etc., will most likely be lost in the conceptual changes, and it may even be necessary to revert them. Therefore, it is better to do the following: the first batch implements changes of a general nature, and then, based on the results of testing in tournaments, it becomes clear which details need to be refined and in what direction. So, the proposed changes: 1) Remove the 25% hit point bonus for monster specialists. This does not improve the balance; specialists were taken in SoD, and they are taken in WoG, and even more often in WoG. In some cases, this even creates an imbalance - Brogh, Marius, and to some extent, Galtran. Plus, it ties the player to a specific hero (for example, if Brogh is leveled up in a strange way, he still has to be tolerated because of the bonus). 2) Remove classes as a phenomenon, and transfer their functionality to individual skills. Warrior, Sage, Explorer, and Governor are completely removed. Speedy -> Navigation Terraformer -> Pathfinding (prices are debatable, need to be increased) Healer -> First Aid (plus casts spells at the level of skill development) Leprechaun -> Luck Marauder -> Leadership (numbers need to be reduced) Merchant -> Estates (numbers are debatable) Artificer -> Eagle Eye (conditions are debatable) The class checkbox is removed, and instead, there is a checkbox for "new skills." 3) Additional functionality for skills Diplomacy - reduces the cost of monetary transactions with the Merchant and Terraformer, increases the maximum purchase volume with the Merchant. Numbers are debatable. Also, on the advanced difficulty level, it allows you to bribe neutrals, and on the expert level, to bribe them "from the spot," like scouting. Diplomacy also goes into the "new skills" checkbox. Learning - reduce the bonus to experience (numbers are debatable), but on the expert level, do not forget the skill, but change it to any basic skill of the player's choice. Ballistics - increases the range of direct fire by 2/4/unlimited (currently 1/2/4), and on the expert level, ignores walls (analogous to GB). And these are without a checkbox. We are not touching the rest for now. 4) Give armor and logistics specialists a 2.5% bonus per level. We are not touching offensive specialists for now; they don't seem to be too overpowered. 5) Add Ivor's scripts for the Inferno patch, new cons, and the symmetrizer to the standard package. Include the Inferno patch by default (remove the checkbox), and make the rest optional (with a checkbox). 6) We need to somehow improve Tavern, a very weak castle. For now, I don't want to touch the heroes from Tavern; it's still unclear what balance of skills will be established, and they can't help much on their own, so we need to change the building tree and prices. Specifically, make mages a dead-end branch; after golems, immediately build djinn or naga, and after naga, build giants. That is, so that on the 1st week, you can build 1-3, 5-7 in the castle and thus get a normal supply of units to capture various treasures. Also, reduce the prices for building and upgrading giants to 5000/20000. You can also reduce the upgrade price for naga. 7) Discard the complexes about the starting army and give Ufretin, Straker, Edric, and Korbak an army like ordinary heroes of the corresponding castles. That's all, I tried to minimize the changes and leave only the most necessary ones. UPDATE: During the discussion, additional points emerged: 8) Remove scrolls at the zaobjts.txt level, that is, simply so that they are not generated on the map. The checkbox for replacing them should also be removed. 9) Adjust the number of starting troglodytes for the Miner to 20-25 (currently 15-25). Increase the number of harpies for the other dungeon heroes to 6-8 (currently 4-6), and give Lore a scout and tactics at the start. 10) Make the Dark Druid a dual-school mage - Water and Air. 11) Replace the Scholar on the expert level with any basic skill of the player's choice. Another point of strengthening Tavern. Also, in the "new skills" checkbox.

and also add necromancy, and then you can play Warlock! :P

We were thinking about necromancy; it will be in the next batch, but it’s very difficult to balance.

in my opinion, improving the chat interface, introducing moderation, and enabling connections without Hamachi would be more important.

regarding the proposed changes, it looks like a very interesting time is coming soon... a huge change in balance... please still introduce Necromancy at levels 2, 4, and 6, and then adjust it for the better. reduce the summoning rate for creatures for specialized players like Tyrus, Galtron, and Shaktar, because otherwise, in half of the castles, only one hero will be available at the start, which is not good.

1) Remove the 25% hit bonus for monster specialists.

+1.

2) Remove classes as a concept and transfer their functionality to individual skills.

+1. But only with a checkbox (new starting skills).
Forgot about the Scholar, by the way.

3) Additional functionality for skills.

Diplomacy will become a teleportation skill for gold :)

4) Give armor and logistics specialists a 2.5% bonus per level. Let's not touch the offensive specialists for now; they don't seem to be overpowered.

It's been a long time coming.

5) Add Yavor's scripts for the Inferno patch, new constraints, and the symmetrizer to the standard package. Enable the Inferno patch by default (remove the checkbox), and make the rest optional (with a checkbox).

Against enabling the Inferno patch by default.

6) We need to somehow improve the Tower faction; it's very weak.

Yes. That's a good idea. Building giants in the Castle will improve the Tower. Without Grand Magus, the value of the Scholar will increase, and mages aren't particularly needed anyway, except for single-target spells. Also, a separate checkbox for the Tower patch is needed.

6) Let's put aside the complexes about the starting army and give Ufretin, Straker, Edric, and Korbak an army like the regular heroes of their respective factions.

We can also add Pikedram to this list, and even better, Tiraxtor. :cool: We can also give the Faction heroes air units, although it's not necessary. And Basilisks to Bron. :)

I would also really like to remove the "replace scrolls with gold" option and make it so that scrolls are not generated at all (like obelisks and cartographers).