Posts from Анализ игры Oelm-KillerVampire

It's probably just a low-quality map hack... :)

Let's aim for higher quality? )) :D

2Oelm, that's a good analysis, but maybe you should switch to VAT - then there's a 90% chance you won't have to write such long texts, upload saves, and delve into 2 months' worth of saves in the future;) ... I mean it in a good way, don't take it as usual)))

Your analysis is good, but maybe you should switch to VAT – then there will be a 90% reduction in the likelihood of writing such long texts, uploading saves, and digging through 2 months of saves in the future;) ... I mean it in a good way, don't take it as usual)))

Nah, I, for example, play VAT without anti-cheat so that I can properly analyze the matches later. Oops, I think I just gave myself away...

Nah, for example, I play without anti-cheat so I can properly analyze the matches later. Oops, I think I just gave myself away...

What's needed for proper analysis? I, for example, find that saves are sufficient.
The presence of anti-cheat only interferes during the replay phase – and even then, it's just out of idle curiosity.

Are we aiming for higher quality? )) :D

I don't have any complaints about the quality of the analysis; I'm talking about the topic.

what is needed for a proper analysis? For me, for example, saves are quite enough
the presence of anti-cheat only interferes at the rest stage - and even then, out of idle curiosity

But for me, they aren't enough. There are always unchecked directions, unconquered Dragon Utopia, etc., and after the game, I want to uncover all that just to evaluate whether my decisions were correct or something. And doing it on my own is long and tedious.

But for me, it's not enough. There are always unchecked directions, unconquered Dragon Utopia, etc., and after the game, I feel like uncovering all of that just to evaluate whether my decisions were correct or something. But doing it on your own is long and tedious.

mm, well how should I explain... it's like in poker - you can make a very correct move, but still lose everything. It's the same here - execution based on the situation is what matters; as for what's hidden in the dark - who cares - it might be there, or it might not.
And with anti-cheat, it's somehow more peaceful - I trust my opponent myself, and I don't worry about my own "honor"..

And with the anti-cheat system, things are calmer – I trust my opponent, and I don't worry about my own "honor."

Nyunyu. If someone really wants to cheat, the anti-cheat system is, strangely enough, a very weak defense.

I wonder if it's possible to install an anti-cheat in SoD?

This is probably a question best addressed to Asmodeus.

I held a seance with the spirit of KillerVampire :smile26:. Here is his testimony (author's style and punctuation preserved in full):

For reasons known only to him, player KillerVampire was unable to provide saves for this game.

I don't make saves in principle! Because I trust the players I play with; I don't think it's necessary to dig through saves later looking for signs of maphacking or rule violations. Let everything remain on the opponents' conscience.

112—during the blue turn, Valeska visits the mill and moves back. Apparently, she decided to take the left fork in the road; the passage to the center is not scouted.

The thought was as follows: since there are 2 roads, I first need to send Turis with a powerful unit to the left to see what's there. If something is there, then Valya runs there; otherwise, return the army and run up.

That's why Valya took 1 step down the road instead of up—to hand over troops to Turis. The loss of tempo is minimal; an informed choice is more important here.

Then Turis saw dirt behind the teleport, meaning the same-color computer was there, so Valya ran there. And the road to the center was scouted on day 4 by a "loh" (scout).

Furthermore—if a maphacker were playing, they would have stepped from the mill not to the right, but to the left—since that's where they'd be heading anyway. So Valya's specified maneuver is actually evidence of fair play.

I will provide similar episodes (proving the opposite of what is being claimed) further in the text.

This is a trifle that isn't necessarily worth noting, but it's telling here that over all 50+ days of the game, the blue heroes NEVER once made a mistake in choosing directions or entered the "wrong" place—a very good result, wouldn't you agree.

Did he really review every move of every scout for all 50+ days of the game? I doubt it. There were plenty of small mistakes here and there, but you apparently didn't bother to notice them, providing instead a generalizing baseless statement. Therefore, I ask the jury not to accept this argument.

Major blunders, yes, there weren't any, which is why I managed to play quite well. Which is an achievement, not a sin, even if not without a bit of luck.

124—also an unremarkable move in itself; a hive was taken on 123. It's notable that in the subsequent game, hives will be ignored by the blue player, with rare exceptions.

Another generalizing baseless statement. Provide specific evidence—I'll explain why I took some and not others. The most common reason is either there were more important things to do or taking the item didn't fit the chain.

Assumption—perhaps the opponent calculated that armies from the hive + horses are enough to crush the bog-dwellers in the second week.

I laughed for a long time at such a gap in logic :). Apparently, by this point, the indignant mind had boiled over and stopped performing its direct duties.

So, I repeat for those who haven't grasped the essence of Oelm's argument: the opponent didn't take items subsequently (apparently on the 3rd week and later) because he thought he could crush the bog-dwellers in the second week.

Of two directions to the center, again the correct one is chosen, leading to the reds.

Which of the two forks is being referred to? Anyway, it doesn't matter; in both cases, the reason is the same—I chose the closer direction.

Plus additional factors: at the first fork, I chose the underground instead of sand (obvious why), and at the second fork, the upper road was blocked by a lot of grayed-out medusas (judging by objects—maximum size); I would have had to bypass them off-road.

That is, the route was the most natural and essentially the only one. If someone had gone differently—then we could talk about maphacking.

Without being distracted by the stadium and the vampire's breastplate.

To hell with them (censored, like "fig"). True WT players teach us that camping and gluttonously consuming the territory is a sign of low skill. With KN=1, the breastplate isn't needed enough to trek into the snows for it. The stadium also isn't on the way; you have to push through off-road to get to it, losing half a day. And we are supposedly rushing.

on 126, after capturing the castle within four days, the blues don't bother checking the cons (it turns out to be strong), instead running into the central underground.

Simply forgot. This happens often in chess—you calculate a variation and then immediately make the 2nd move, forgetting the first.

By the way, a serious blunder—the cons was taken with whatever was available. Later, realizing that the opponent might take it himself, I returned and took it, losing significant tempo (which is quite strange for a maphack game). Unfortunately, there are no saves from 125 all the way to 132, so I cannot comment in more detail; my memory isn't encyclopedic.

There they will take the two-cons. In general, I couldn't reproduce the opponent's move such that this two-cons was taken not from the darkness. Will you be able to?

I'll share a secret—a scout runs strictly along the road and spots this cons through a rock. Unfortunately, save 134 is missing, which would clearly demonstrate this simple trick.

The blue ГГ is not distracted by the library, as if afraid of not making it somewhere in time. Despite the fact that contact will be intentionally avoided until the finale.

Very accurately noted. Afraid of not making it somewhere in time. I'll even tell you where exactly—to scout the territory; I can take the library later, right now I need to light up the paths. With a maphack, there's no one to rush—it's obvious that the game has entered a phase of mutual gluttony and contact is not foreseen.

It's interesting not only that again there is no mistake in directions, but also that after taking two cons, the blues run off into completely different territory without scouting what lies beyond the passages. And correctly—nothing useful will be found there.

The logic was this: seeing from the overview the regrettable fact that I had run off to some distant lands toward multicolored computers, I decided that I urgently needed to stop fooling around and deal with more important things—visit the stable and search the second central treasure zone (in the sands). Because all the same-color computer's respawn scraps are already collected (by the 4th week), while serious items are found rarely, unlike in a treasure zone.

By the way, note the form of the screenshot—it was taken at a moment when the map is not yet scouted, as a hint that the guy found everything in the dark. In reality, there's an overview on top, which I opened first thing with a scout, after which I made the conclusions described above.

Another stone in the accuser's garden—the abuse of dirty tricks.

Valeska sped up at the stable and is ready to split; from the overview, a cons is visible in the treasure zone where the road goes directly from the castle respawn. But she doesn't even think about heading there.

Do you see a road there?! 2 days of running! For one cons?! Besides, it's not a treasure zone (which is confirmed by the unguarded piles of gold and scrolls lying around). The treasure zone is exactly where the chain stands.

not the first time a hive has been ignored

Caught me :). For "not the first," take a stone back, but as for the reason, it's quite prosaic—Sir Müllich couldn't reach to drop off shooters for him (there's no particular point in taking them against ice-dwellers and dragonflies).

Not to mention that with 11 angels and 14 horses, collecting items across a deserted wasteland is not the highest priority—you need to scout the area faster and most importantly find the village where Valya can split. In chasing this item, you can easily lose a day of tempo.

Moreover! With a maphack, it's obvious that this item should be taken—the village is right under your nose; the hero has time to take it even after crossing the desert. Plus, he could have timely removed archers from the hero; there were opportunities for this. But with a closed map, taking the item is a negative move, as argued above. So this episode actually works in my favor.

212—simply stunning. The opponent captures a small tavern village—and on the first move doesn't build a tavern or Mage Guild or even anything at all, but makes a "papal" move—builds a fort! Meanwhile, Valeska crawls into the snows to take the cyclops-den with a penalty (or maybe not). But! It's seen that later she heads somewhere up.

Yes, it was a very papal move; I thought I'd have to be proud of it, but it turned out I have to justify it :(.

I reasoned as follows: I arrived at the treasure zone, I need to search it. The treasure zone is in a corner, meaning it's large and rich. It must be searched regardless—other options look less profitable, which is why Valya took a step up. But to help her with the choice, I decided to light up a piece so it would be clear where to go—left (if I see something there) or right (otherwise). Because if that territory isn't lit up immediately, the scouts won't arrive very soon; they have to run in a spiral.

Why this hassle when you have a maphack is completely unclear. It would be easier to just build a tavern and release a couple of scouts on gargoyles—they'd find the Dragon Utopia (it's not far), clear out the mother, and help with the chains.

213—I suggest trying to repeat Valeska's move without using a flight scroll—this is beyond my ability

Huh?

214—stunning again; the trick is not only that Valeska ends up under a possible zhalov (if there were Dimension Door, Town Portal has been available for a week and scouted), but also how she does it.

This was my serious blunder—simply ran out of time, didn't manage to change gear and set up for battle. Then your whole turn trembled: would they catch me here with my pants down?

And, by the way, Valya stood extremely unfavorably—on essentially the only cell you were observing. A player with a maphack would have stood a cell or two back and wouldn't have revealed Valya.

The blues, somewhere toward the end of the fourth, revealed normal parameters, and two days later, they fell. I, in my sin, thought about armor, and possibly with a red orb. But here—pure hiding, right up until the finale 227. And this is with Brogh's 3400 moves and air magic. With handcuffs! With an impl and empowerment. Well, maybe he'll get some with 2 Dimension Door somewhere? No—he won't. Either he played like a total loser, or he took me for an idiot, or he maphacked EVERY turn.

Another baseless generalization. Specific episodes, please, where I could have exposed myself. Don't forget that the map is quite well scouted, and there are one-time views.

Until such are presented, I ask the jury not to consider this argument.

214 Perhaps we can put a stop to it here. A scout goes with a sizable army into a tree on the Necropolis respawn, which he grabbed on 113. The overview is intentionally ignored (cons are visible from it, by the way). In general, the style is one and the same—and the whole game since 112 has been maintained in it.

Yes, perhaps it's time to put a stop to this nonsense.

The overview is not ignored intentionally—it just takes 4 days to get there from the castle; the respawn is wound in a spiral. The scout with the army isn't going for cons, but to level up in safe territory—he's a mage with air magic, he needs to expert his air and gain knowledge; a second jumper is very useful in the late game. If cons were found—good. If not—to hell with them, at this stage it's not the most critical factor.

It's quite obvious that hitting right on the mark (they weren't given Town Portal in Dragon Utopias).

And where would you have built? ;)

There are only 2 options—either Necropolis or Rampart (the rest were grabbed later). As the same-color materials tell us, Rampart has the highest chance for Dimension Door, so that's why I built there—exactly for the second jumper (and a scroll with fly so he could use it).

Seems I haven't missed anything else. So thank you all for your attention; I hope next time, before praising the prosecution, the viewers will bother to check the presented arguments, or at least listen to both disputants.

And as for Sir Oelm, one can only wish him growth in heroic skill, so that such simple actions of opponents find logical explanations in his head rather than forcing him into unnecessary conspiracy theories.

As well as learning to rely on your own knowledge and logic in discussions, not on dirty yellow-journalism tricks of manipulating public opinion. Even a member of the AK fell for it...

Wic, are you doing this for free?

I wonder if it's possible to install an anti-cheat in SODE?

This is probably a question best addressed to Asmu.

A real anti-cheat would involve storing all maps and save files on a server until the end of the match (by the way, we should consider this idea; all it requires is a computer with a decent internet connection and preferably a backup channel). What currently exists in Wargame: Red Dragon is like a kindergarten; it only hinders the ability to review the game afterward and will only protect against the most novice and inexperienced cheaters.

Wic, are you doing this for free?

If only... I had a pricing structure, plus the client would cover the cost of supplies (candles, incense, black sheep's blood, etc.).

A real anti-cheat system would involve storing all maps and save files on the server until the end of the match (by the way, this is an idea worth considering; all you need is a computer with a good internet connection and preferably a backup channel). What currently exists in the online lobby is like a daycare group; it only hinders the ability to review the game afterward and will only protect against the most novice and inexperienced cheaters.

but it significantly complicates things.

but it makes things quite difficult

Yeah. Plus, the average moral standing of the people is higher.

I've been playing for years – in the TE/VT community, cheating scandals are very rare, which is why the level of trust is quite high. But among the SoD players, both ours and the foreign ones, there are constant arguments about this. And where there are no arguments, there are suspicions and personal blacklists.