- A reference guide and manual in Russian for Heroes 3. — General

5.0 (1 rating)

AmberSoler

20 years ago

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Greetings to all fans of the Heroes of Might & Magic III universe!

I would like to invite you to participate in a project dedicated to creating a reference guide for HoMM III.

The topic itself is not new. There are many individual resources dedicated to describing the physics of the Heroes world, but despite all efforts, it is extremely difficult to find an information source that can be unequivocally classified as a reference guide.

This work does not claim to be original and is the result of compiling various official (Player's Manual) and unofficial (forums and websites) sources dedicated to describing the internal world of the game.

The file in Excel and PDF formats can be found at the following link:
http://vk.com/fizmig

At the moment, the work on the project is not yet fully completed, if it is even possible to complete it... :) Therefore, I would be grateful if anyone would like to participate in it and share their opinions, knowledge, and advice. An updated version of the document will be posted at the specified address for all those who wish. A link to the author will definitely be included. :)

Not all the information provided in this reference guide can be considered official, because it contains observations and assessments of players who wished to share their opinions about the features of the game. But, nevertheless, in general, it достаточно realistically reflects the physics of the Heroes world and will undoubtedly be useful to any beginner.

Given the above, any comments, clarifications, and explanations are welcome. Any suggestions regarding a more optimal form of presenting the information provided will also be valuable.

Sincerely,
AmberSoler

In reply to Dirty_Player

AmberSoler

16 years ago

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Dirty_Player

Please remove the nonsense from page 4.

There were times when the primary source for articles in the reference was various forum discussions, and since there simply wasn't enough time to verify each statement, links to the author of each comment had to be provided. Over time, most of the unnecessary information has been removed.

Dirty_Player

What is 21/2??? It should be "Square root of 2". The Pythagorean theorem also works in Heroes!!!

Yes, that's correct - it's a technical error, it should be read as 2^(1/2). It has been corrected, thank you everyone.

zoog

16 years ago

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In this save, first, there's a battle with 29 + 29 wolves (value=9567), and then with 10+10+9 ordinary wolves (3900). The difference in value is 2.5 times, but the more powerful ones are divided into a smaller number of groups. Strange, isn't it?
Another interesting question: sometimes, you can move forward and take a chest diagonally, and there are no more moves left. But when you try to take the same chest correctly - i.e., move diagonally and then take it directly - there are no moves left for taking it. I don't understand why.

In reply to zoog

Kluka

16 years ago

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Tootsie Pie

In this save, first there is a battle with 29 + 29 wolves (value=9567), and then with 10+10+9 ordinary ones (3900). The difference in value is 2.5 times, but the more powerful ones are divided into a smaller number of groups. Strange, right?

Nothing strange. The number of stacks consists of two components:
1) a "basic" number, depending on the ratio of the hero's army strength to the neutral army strength
2) a modifier that depends only on the coordinates of the neutral location (as well as the presence of a group stack)

FizMig

The distribution of neutral units into stacks at the beginning of the battle follows its own strict rules and depends on the ratio k of the hero's army strength (A) to the neutral army strength (H).

k=A/N Number of enemy stacks*
0.50 6
0.50-0.67 5
0.67-1 4
1 - 1.5 3
1.5 - 2 2
> 2 1

*The appearance of an upgraded unit stack in the enemy army adds one more to the number of stacks (upgraded). The total number of units does not change.
The coordinates [X;Y] of the neutrals on the map randomly introduce adjustments to the number of stacks. Depending on the coordinates, the number of non-upgraded stacks changes in one of several possible ways: +1 upgraded stack, +1 or +2 non-upgraded stacks, or the number of stacks remains unchanged.

Another interesting question: sometimes you can move one cell forward and take a chest diagonally, and no more moves remain. When you try to take the same chest correctly - i.e., move diagonally and then take it directly - there are no moves left for taking it. I don't understand why.

Physics is arranged in such a way that
a) the number of moves required to make a move, and
b) the number of moves deducted from the hero's MP for making a move,
are generally different.
In particular, on grass, 100 MP is required to move diagonally, but 141 MP is deducted. Therefore, if a hero has, for example, 210 MP, then:
a) after moving in a straight line, 110 MP remains, and this is enough for a move (taking the chest) diagonally
b) after moving diagonally, 69 MP remains, and this is not enough for a move in a straight line.

zoog

16 years ago

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Yes, I must have read that carelessly...

+1 or +2 unupgraded stacks, or the number of stacks remains unchanged.

So, even with a significant advantage, in about 1/3 of the cases (half of the coordinates change the stacks: +1 upgraded stack, +1 or +2 unupgraded stacks), we have 2 or 3 stacks instead of one.

As for movement... is the required amount what is shown by the green bars? Then, with diagonal movement available, I would never reach the end of the displayed movement range on grass. Maybe you mean that only 100 movement points are required to capture an object? Then everything makes sense, but I have read everywhere and checked myself that it is exactly 141.

In reply to zoog

Kluka

16 years ago

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Tootsie Pie

And regarding movement... is the required number the one shown by the green bars? If so, I would never reach the displayed end of the movement if I had diagonal movement options. Maybe you mean that only 100 MP are required to take an object? Then everything makes sense, but I read everywhere and checked myself that it is exactly 141.

The required number is the minimum number of moves required to perform the action.
In this case, it is indeed 100 MP.

In the Physics section, on the page about logistics, there is a subsection, I don't remember the exact name, something like "features of the last move" or something like that.
If you checked and it was different, please upload the save file.

* On penalty territories, the required number of moves is different, even if there is pathfinding and all creatures in the army are native.

PS. IMHO, there is still something that can be tested here - the number of moves that is reset to 0, depending on the presence of a penalty, may be expensive and others.

Marmot

16 years ago

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FizMiG 5.2 Logistics. Features of movement on the map
One step horizontally (vertically) across open terrain (grass, earth, etc.) costs 100 MP, diagonally - 141 MP (exception - the last step; if the hero has at least 100 MP, they will be able to move diagonally - see section 2.3)
2.3. Last step.
If the hero does not have enough MP to move diagonally (141), but has enough for a horizontal or vertical step (i.e., 141≥MP≥100), they can still move diagonally, but only if there are no movement penalties (roads, army composition, and the Flight spell are not taken into account - i.e., the terrain penalty for the last step always applies).

zoog

16 years ago

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Kluka, I meant the number of movement points required to capture an object diagonally. And the last step in the Physics section is not described very clearly - ideally, it should be 1) if 141 > MP >= 100, a move or capture of an object diagonally is possible (in the original, all inequalities are non-strict) + example, 2) the terrain penalty is calculated as for the hero's army, which is not native to that terrain (exactly as in the original) + example. Then even I wouldn't be able to misinterpret it - it seemed to me that it was only about the penalty.
Marmot, Kluka, thanks for clearing up the confusion in my head).

zoog

16 years ago

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Another good question. One unit in a stack deals 1-2 damage, while a hundred of the same units will deal damage equal to the sum of all units, calculated separately (according to the topic about the damage calculation program, L&M), i.e., the spread (statistically) will be much smaller. Consequently, it doesn't make sense to divide a hundred archers into 2-6 stacks (I used to do this to reduce the spread). Is this correct?

In reply to zoog

Kluka

16 years ago

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Tootsie Pie

Another good question. One unit in a stack deals 1-2 damage; a hundred of the same units will deal damage equal to the sum of all units, calculated separately (judging by the thread about the damage calculation program, L&M). This means that the spread (statistically) will be much smaller. As a result, it doesn't make sense to divide a hundred archers into 2-6 stacks (I used to do this to reduce the spread). Is this correct?

This is still an open question.
I tried to verify this when playing as the Dungeon faction, but after gathering some information that was sufficient for me, I stopped.

If the damage of N units was the sum of the damage of each unit, then 10,000 troglodytes would almost always deal (without modifiers) 20,000 damage, and the standard deviation would be 81.

However, it has been established that the damage per troglodyte is always a multiple of 0.1 (one-tenth) and in 90% of cases is between 1.7 and 2.3, regardless of whether there are 100 or 1000 troglodytes in the stack.

So, the physics here are clearly different. Troglodytes fight coherently :D

And, of course, there is no coherence between stacks. So, it turns out that dividing a stack may be beneficial in this sense to reduce the spread...

AlexSpl

16 years ago

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The situation with damage is exactly the same as in the first part (see the author's reference by VDV_forever), if the number of units in the squad does not exceed 10. If the number of units in the squad is more than 10, then the overall picture remains the same, but the damage is [N * (the sum of ten pseudo-random numbers from the damage range of one unit from the squad) / 10], where N is the number of units in the squad.

Don't be lazy, read the article about damage in Heroes in the Reference. Some facts will make sense, for example, it will become clear why a squad almost never deals maximum or minimum damage, or why the damage area is not always continuous.

In reply to AlexSpl

asm

16 years ago

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AlexSpl

For reference, this information might be too specific, but I couldn't find a better place for it, so I'm posting it here.

The appearance of a "grayed-out" stack depends on the coordinates

Whether a "grayed-out" stack appears or not depends on the following condition:

([ax + by + cz + d] mod 32768) mod 100 < 50, where
a = 2992.911117
b = 14174.264968
c = 5325.181015
d = 32788.727920

0 <= x <= 143
0 <= y <= 143

z = 0 for the surface
z = 1 for the underground

[x] = floor(x)

A "grayed-out" stack will appear if the condition is met.

Location of neutral creatures with a "grayed-out" stack for a 144 x 144 map with an underground and without
0 - no "grayed-out" stack, 1 - "grayed-out" stack exists.

You can check a cell (x, y, z) for a "grayed-out" stack using the Bitmap Generator program.

I integrated a "grayed-out" stack viewer into the WT addon, but unfortunately, the formula is incorrect.
That's what I initially thought....

But now I've decided to add more information: if your troops are strong enough and the neutral creatures merge into a single stack, there will be no "grayed-out" stack.

AlexSpl

16 years ago

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But now I decided to add some information: if your troops are so strong and the neutral units retreat into a single stack, there won't be a "greened" stack.

Of course :) Also, there won't be a "greened" stack if the neutral units are snipers, azure dragons, peasants, etc. ;)

Lider1

16 years ago

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Physmig. p. 69

"-- How to destroy your own catapult. Sometimes there is a situation when it is extremely important to prevent the enemy's non-flying troops from leaving the city. In this case, to prevent the Catapult from making unnecessary breaches in the wall, it can be destroyed in one single way - by casting the Meteor Shower spell against it. Of course, if your hero has the skill to control a catapult, there is no need to destroy it - you can simply skip a turn."

That's not true. Fireball also works like Inferno with a Ring of Cold. Not to mention Armageddon :)

In reply to Dirty_Player

Lider1

16 years ago

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Dirty_Player

In the artifact properties for diplomacy, the description states Diplomancy +x. In reality, these artifacts only reduce the surrender price and nothing more.

What a surprise! And I wholeheartedly believed that the ring (as well as the amulet and ring) increased the chance of joining :smile11:.

***

AmberSoler

Snipers, for example, do not have a range penalty, but they still shoot at half strength through a castle wall...

Wow!

***
Why is it not indicated in the artifacts how much the movement speed on the map increases?

Boots give 600 movement points, and gloves (seemingly) 300. (In the expansion, I know it's 400/200).

***
It prohibits the use of any magic (artifact properties, about the red ball). Why not add it to the cursed armor as well?

***
For the Barbarian, the zero is not red when receiving water magic :D

***
Why are pages 17 and 64 so similar?

***

Dirty_Player

Please remove the nonsense from page 4.

If a hero has two pairs of gloves, only one will work. Exception - Bogarus. (Added by ROLpogo http://www.heroesportal.net).

Dirty_Player

There are no exceptions.

*Note: two Diplomat Rings do not stack their effect, i.e., they act as one. Exception - Roland, who manages to use two rings at the same time. (Added by ROLpogo http://www.heroesportal.net).

Something tells me that it will be the same here :D :D :D

In reply to Lider1

MedjersoN_HP

16 years ago

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Lider1

Dirty_PlayerPlease remove the nonsense from page 4.

If a hero has two pairs of gloves, only one will be active. Exception - Bogarus. (Added by ROLpogo http://www.heroesportal.net).

Dirty_Player

There are no exceptions.

* Note: two Rings of Diplomacy do not stack their effects, i.e., they act as one. Exception - Roland, who manages to use two rings simultaneously. (Added by ROLpogo http://www.heroesportal.net).
Something tells me that the same will apply here :D :D :DThis was an April Fool's joke that accidentally ended up in PhysMig.

Lider1