Posts from Discussion about the Britvachka-Valenok party.

summary: knowledge of the positioning (and the composition of the drowned one – Nelkin had wings) combined with information about a large number of angels and the red creatures moving around, conversely, did not allow the blue player to position themselves for an attack before the "suspicious" move.
therefore, everything is fair! :) the time passed before Gurney decided to position for an attack (between 145 and 146, at the end of which the blue player positioned and was vulnerable to the red creature... however, this is no longer important))))

You are missing one point. The delay of the turn occurred between 145 and 146. Nelkin received wings only on 147. That is, he could very well have expected that Nelkin did not yet have wings, so positioning for an attack from that point of view was quite normal.

You're missing one point. The party delay happened between 145 and 146. Nelka only got wings on 147. That is, he could well have expected that Nelka didn't have wings yet, so from that point of view, going for a speed-up was quite normal.

Nelka could have snagged wings even on 146.... although even on 147 she took them immediately! -- when none of the other losers were moving anymore, because the purse was standing next to the speeded-up mommy

and in general it's obvious (if you look at the save, of course))) that a Dragon Utopia with wings is taken quickly, which means poking behind the wall is madness.... but on the other hand, reviewing the position EXCLUDES shoving the blue ГГ, who is //known to be weaker than any enemy loser with artifacts and a purse, into the very thick of the red cockroaches ;) and in fact that's exactly how it was -- only the same gathering of reds wasn't revealed even when reviewing the move on the position opened by blue :) but knowing about this red commotion -- poking into it is own suicide!! Britvochka didn't know, poked in, but made it through -- well, it happens, although the opponent is upset.... but that's a gamble like 2-7 beating AK -- you don't get banned for that, right? :)

the blue player's move on 147 was made with absolutely no knowledge of the terrain, wasting extra moves (the optimal way would have been to fly to the lift and DD to the Dragon Utopia)

If one were to make such a move, it would be an obvious giveaway and an admission that the player is a cheater-idiot.

Funny reasoning about how Gurny wanted to catch someone on the run)). He has no idea if the reds are even there. He jumps into the dark, to the edge of the map, into red territory, and sees a breached metro. If you want to catch someone on the run, you'd run along the road hoping to see some sucker with a powerful unit (nonsense, in my opinion; throw the "catching on the run" version in the toilet). A metro leading to a treasure zone is like 100%, since no one has ever seen a Tower underground even back in mini-nostalgia. Possible options:

a) everything there is already cleared and there's no point in heading there;
b) if not everything is cleared, it's quite likely that Nela is there and you'll definitely get beaten, since the blues are clearly behind.

The move into this metro itself is illogical and almost always negative (either in terms of moves or simply losing the game). But Gurny crawls in there and jumps right into the corner of the map. What's the point? What chance is there that it's a native Dragon Utopia, rather than an obelisk, a Pandora's box with 10k gold, or a hive?
I have never seen even a moderately strong player waste their ГГ moves like this, especially in the endgame, when the chances of hitting are close to zero!

Meaning, if Britva had made the same move with his leader, but there was some random junk in the corner (which, in my opinion, would be the case 95-99% of the time), everyone would have thought—not without reason—that Britva is just a noob (I've signed us all up here, including myself :), anyway), right? But he's an experienced and strong player; I don't understand how one could move so talentlessly :confused:
And Britva's explanation is ridiculous (although I thought about it and couldn't come up with anything more plausible)). A person with such intuition could easily play, and win, blindfolded, using only sound.
My opinion: the chance that this is just a coincidence and Britva simply got super lucky is equal to the chance that a white grand piano will fall on me while I'm writing this post. I've argued it as best I could, thank you for your attention.

Whether to close the topic or not is not an option in this poll. So, let's keep our opinions to ourselves for now. I ask that you express your opinions on the matter at hand. Also, please reduce and limit the theoretical statements, of which I have already seen quite a few. This is far from a standard situation, so I would like to hear more sober and well-considered opinions, taking into account not only the strength of the first and second players, but also the specifics of the map, the length of the game, the possible developments in that situation, the fact that the game is being played to its conclusion, the fact that there are unclear explanations, etc. Right now, we have a continuation of the situation – the best defense is offense. There are absolutely no thoughts or explanations of the situation from Andrey. Sometimes you can write a half-page post and say nothing, and sometimes you can say nothing and say everything. Let's vote, don't hesitate. Right now, the opinion of literally every player is very important, especially the top players. No one claims that there was cheating, but it cannot be ruled out. There are also enough secondary factors to bring this issue up for general discussion. So, if anyone thought that the issue was resolved, that is far from the case. Let's continue.

I request that the Arbitration Committee consider this match, taking into account all the oddities in the actions of BOTH players. I also request that their explanations be made available for public review (of course, if they provide them) and, based on this information, a resolution should be reached and a VOTE should be held!!!

It's perfectly logical to expect that the reds are in the metro; it's possible heroes ran through there as well. As for getting beaten up, well, I'm a bit baffled by such logic.

2Piterius: I want to hear some sound arguments in favor of cheating. Just one. So far, it's either all sorts of nitpicking or an admission of own noobness. I still maintain that in this example, we aren't even talking about so-called "intuition," but simple game logic.

Let me explain my position: naturally, I wasn't there and cannot claim that maphack wasn't used. Theoretically, it's possible the person revealed the map and then made a very logical move, which could have been made even without it. I only want to say that based on the logic of the blue player's actions, you cannot talk about maphack at all! Furthermore, out of all possible options in online play, the most profitable one was chosen (obviously for a case where the map is unknown).

And what do those who are fostering suspicions have right now?

Example: supposedly the blue ГГ has a chance to get beaten up by Nela.
Let's consider what unpleasant surprises Gurnie might encounter (considering going to the center or his own treasure zones as alternatives):

1. Second shackles - it's stupid to rely on this; with second shackles, switching to a passive tactic is doomed to failure from the start.

2. Strike magic - that's not scary; with such CS, Nela can be answered with Implosion, or Mass Slow and then Implosion in the second round and buy-out; the trade apparently turns out in Gurnie's favor.

3. Exotics - like AOTD and a red orb, Alliance and a red orb. Unlikely; in this case again, a passive tactic won't save you.

4. A large number of angels and Mass Haste - the worst-case scenario. But even here, hoping that passivity can save you is utopian.

And now what can be expected to be gained:

1. Scouting the territory. Most players underestimate its importance. Although there's a chance that via ДД one could reach the main underground treasure zone, finding a castle with a high-level Mage Guild along the way—the ability to plan for a draw if things get really unpleasant.
2. The possibility of catching the red army (partially) - this is quite likely.
3. The possibility of catching the ГГ - unlikely, but it happens sometimes.
4. Finding an uncleared treasure zone. An untaken Utopia, Pandora's box with the necessary magic, or even just some breastplate +6 to CS. After all, it's obvious that on mini-nostalgia people often ignore less important artifacts, hoping the opponent won't appear in those areas.
5. It is reasonable to expect a profitable trade upon meeting, especially if the opponent isn't very skilled in FB. After all, Implosion rules.

In general, such nonsense—how terrible this move on 147 is—I don't even want to discuss it.

That's about it.

I suggest closing the topic!

I request that the AC consider the analysis of this match, taking into account all the oddities in the gameplay of BOTH players. I also request that their explanations be made available for public review (of course, if they provide them :)), and based on this data, a resolution should be reached and a VOTE held!!!

Please outline the oddities in Valenok's gameplay, my dear friend. Update: I understand, thank you.

I'm very curious why he didn't drop by the Necro, but instead pushed up "God knows where," where there are 7 caches and 4 dragon cities. To me, this looks MORE suspicious than that Dimension Door!!!!!

I'm very curious why he didn't drop by the Necro, but pushed up "God knows where" instead, where there are 7 caches and 4 dragon cities. To me, this looks MORE suspicious than that Dimension Door!!!!!

I'm afraid to disappoint you, Artem was streaming the game. Please stick to the facts.

AK opened the thread and will close it when she deems it necessary. I ask you to stop the hysteria regarding this matter

For example, it’s possible that there was heavily guarded passage, so I chose Inferno for the first hero, and then proceeded towards the guaranteed treasure. And in general, it’s bad form to accuse someone of maphacking based on a few save files. If the administrator expects a serious discussion, they should have posted all the save files. Otherwise, it will all turn into a circus, if it hasn’t already. Overall, -1.

In the picture, it’s clearly visible where the entrance to the subway is located!!!!

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It's quite logical to expect that there are red creatures in the Metro, and perhaps even heroes were running around there. As for getting beaten, I'm a bit surprised by such logic.

2Piterius: I want to hear sensible arguments in favor of cheating, even just one. So far, it's either nitpicking words or admitting one's own incompetence. I still maintain that in this example, it's not even about so-called "intuition," but rather ordinary game logic.

I'm not taking either side; AK acts as a judge, whose task is to find the truth. The truth lies in your opinions, and all of them are important and interesting. But one of your opinions, in the overall mass, cannot be the truth.
So, I ask you, for the second time, not to beat a dead horse, as we're not at a rally. Your opinion has been noted. Some of your arguments also seem absurd to me, but I remain respectful and listen to them, trying to understand your logic. I can only suggest that you include the theory of probability in your reasoning, assign fair probabilities to all the scenarios you've described, and then reconsider your arguments taking them into account.

List the oddities in Valenok's game, my dear.

I will also comment on Oelm's post now, if I find the strength.

Of the saves provided - the Dragon Utopia that caused the dispute was not taken by Anya on 147, even though the chain for it is in place. With artifacts and Neela's army, the third one falls without any problems; you have to mess around with the max, but the angels still wouldn't have suffered. Considering the second КЗ in the max, the army can then be easily evacuated via Town Portal to the nearest town (in the save, Anya gets advanced earth from mummies, demons, and the Dragon Utopia). Given the glowing corner of the blue hero across the hill, this had to be done!! In general, I tried for a long time to figure out what the reds did on 147, but other than Neela taking the max, I still didn't understand.

I also believe the move by the blues is justifiable.

Whether to close the thread or not are not options for this poll. So let' same keep our cards close to our chests for now.

I ask that you express opinions on the merits of the case.
I also ask that you reduce and limit theoretical statements, of which I have already seen quite a few. This is far from a textbook situation; therefore, I would like to hear more sober and balanced opinions, considering not only the strength of one player versus the other, but also the specifics of the map template, the duration of the game, the possible turn of events in that situation, the fact that the game was played out, the presence of confusing explanations, etc.

Right now we have a continuation of the situation — the best defense is a good offense. Absolutely no thoughts or explanations of the situation from Andrey. Sometimes you can write a post half a page long and say nothing with it, and sometimes you can say not a word and say everything by doing so.

Vote, don't be shy. Right now the opinion of literally every player is very important, especially the top ones. No one is claiming there was cheating, but it cannot be ruled out either. There are also enough secondary factors to bring this issue up for general discussion. So if anyone thought the matter was settled, that is far from the case. Let's continue.

Well look—1) since he headed there confidently, it turns out he knew what was there, which means he's a cheater... 2) to say that he went there not knowing what was there and found what he found, it turns out he's a cheater... otherwise how did that happen... some strange conclusions...
On 1.4.5 when I looked at the saves... the red hero was standing on the Inferno road (he is visible in blue)... one could have thought that chains were being built there and tried to catch Nella while she was speeding up there (though I don't think that's a viable option)... + Dragon Utopia... 2 turns and we break the utopia.. I think it's more promising than running around somewhere in your own unknown treasure zone (you could break the utopia for now, sending some fodder for scouting beyond the Dungeon village)... on the turn when there was a DD into the cave... then the plan to catch Nella failed (as written below in posts—perhaps he knew Nella was standing in the neighboring utopia and wanted to jump and catch her thinking she would head toward this utopia near the cave).. who knows... now it's like this—since they jumped, we are at the exit to the Dungeon.. went down, no one is there and no chains are visible... going back to your own side via flight is stupid... on the road to the Inferno above as well... on the underground road is also not an option.. drove off the road and found this utopia.. the possibility that Nella hadn't cleared the treasure zone yet—since it's like that, let's see what's further... but everything there was already clean... then I understand he crashed into a fodder unit in the city...
Regarding the red players' game... someone said—it's strange that they went specifically there (to the treasure zone where the angel nicknames are).. why not?? I don't intend to kill all the computers with just one ГГ... fodder units kill them perfectly along the chains, and in the 1st week I used to kill all the computers exactly like that... and going to kill Inferno is easiest at first... One thing I can say, not to offend the reds but for analysis... the chains were bad... back when Nella broke the utopia and then went to the city, one could have immediately grabbed the boots of speed... a whirlwind in the Dungeon was very necessary... without it, there's no way... and also, the game was played defensively... I think more activity is needed when having such an advantage in everything...
CONCLUSION—no need to make a mountain out of a molehill... we only ruin everything with our arguments... personally, I play for the thrill... as I think many do... what interest is there in winning after uncovering the map??... because of such arguments on the forum, no normal players will be left.. those who can already be counted on one hand... I think it's worth considering who should be suspected and who shouldn't... after all, we haven't been playing together for just a few days....

It is unethical to seek the truth by discussing the reputation of other players. If this is normal for some, it is not for me. It is irrelevant and uninteresting.

Recently, there was a review of a game by Keba-Britva. Without knowing the map, I made the same move as Keba and found the same Pandora's Box with control (which caused all the fuss). Here, I didn't play a single game, but I'm sure I would have taken that Utopia as well. So, what is there to talk about?

Is there even one player at RP's level who would say that playing as Blue raises suspicions?

By the way, I realized: why was the AK even formed? It seems to me that it (and not in vain are the best players chosen for it) should build arguments for and against, and if it cannot do so itself, it should turn to the "top" players. And only then should we, the forum residents, decide whether their arguments deserve attention and hold a vote.
But as always, everything is done the wrong way.

P.S. If no serious arguments appear, this will be my last post in this thread.