[ANNOUNCEMENT] Heroes 3: World Tournament - an add-on for tournament games. — Tournament History

Lider1

16 years ago

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2Catch, thanks for the correction. And I like the classes themselves, but the logistics specialists are a pathetic sight of what they used to be.

FireToSky

Yeah, Brog is a super hero in Warlord Tactics.

Not a super hero - he's an IMBA!

In reply to Lider1

Oelm

16 years ago

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Hmm, regarding the weakness of Inferno on the Conflux map – it’s debatable. In Heroes of Might and Magic VI, where an early encounter is unlikely, I think it’s weaker than the Swamp.

In reply to Lider1

Catch

16 years ago

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Lider1

but the so-called logistics experts are a pathetic sight, a mere shadow of their former selves.

What if you remove Desser's specialization and focus on developing scouting and navigation skills? :) What kind of hero would that be? :)

Сатир

16 years ago

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I've had similar thoughts for a while now. Not so much about balance, but more about the overall feel in WoG/TE.
There are a lot of simplifications. Upgrading wolves without goblins, the same with cows, pits without GM2. They increased growth rates based on unclear criteria. Now, starting as Swamp, you clearly aim for 55-60 Gnolls, 20+ Lizards, and a Serpent for a quick boost. You can either upgrade Lizards or buy a Viv directly. It's convenient, straightforward, comfortable, but uninteresting.

They've polished the value to a shine, removing obelisks, quests, and changing artifact levels. Now, playing as Jebus, you can easily arrange collected teapots to spell out the word "Happiness." But playing becomes boring and monotonous.
I understand when they try to reduce randomness, for example, by disabling morale or starting with 3 stacks or level 2. But why attach a pocket to an already excellent skill like Tactics, increase growth rates even further when you already have a decent army with 3 stacks, remove restrictions on essential upgrades or buildings, and so on. In my opinion, these simplifications (and they are simplifications, not "balance") make the game more boring and bland.

In reply to Сатир

readme

16 years ago

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I agree with Satyr; because of all these simplifications, World of Titans has become a bland and overly easy game. Someone mentioned earlier that it's for those who haven't learned how to play Shades of Darkness :D
I think it's SEM 56, but I might be wrong, I don't remember =)))
And yes, I agree with Leader; Inferno has been buffed too much, as has the Swamp, and the Tower is now useless.

In reply to Сатир

Oelm

16 years ago

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But it's faster. It saves real time! Jebus is quite playable on Warlord Tower. But SMK is just awful.

In reply to Catch

Lider1

16 years ago

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Catch

What if we leave Dess's specialization and level up her scouting and navigation skills? :) Who would she become? :)

Why leave it? We can change it from 5% to 1-2%, for example. But not just eliminate it.

In reply to Lider1

readme

16 years ago

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VT has completely lost its gaming excitement, in my opinion...
When you have full stacks, level 2 always built, and the ability to disable morale for neutrals and remove the Guard Shift... there's not much excitement left, the game is faster, yes, and much easier.
It's a misconception that VT with settings close to SOD is like SOD. That's a huge misconception. There's nothing even remotely close to SOD there.

In reply to Сатир

Lider1

16 years ago

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Well, level 1-2, a full stack, growth, morale – all of this is customizable. And that's perfectly fine! But the "balance" itself, in the sense of actual balance, is far from balanced.

Satyr

I've had similar thoughts for a long time. Not so much about balance, but about the "cheese" in WoG/TE.
There are a lot of simplifications. Upgrading wolves without goblins, the same with cows, pits without GM2. They increased growth rates based on unclear criteria. Now, starting as Swamp, you can reliably get 55-60 gnolls, 20+ lizards, and snakes for a quick boost. You can upgrade lizards or buy vivs right away. It's convenient, straightforward, comfortable, but uninteresting. They've polished the value to a shine, removing obelisks, quests, and changing artifact levels. Now, playing as Jebus, you can easily arrange collected teapots to spell out the word "Happiness." But playing becomes boring and monotonous. I understand when they try to reduce randomness, for example, by disabling morale or starting with 3 stacks or level 2. But why attach a pocket to an already excellent skill like tactics, increase growth rates even more when you already have a decent army with 3 stacks, remove restrictions on essential upgrades or buildings, and so on. In my opinion, these simplifications (and they are simplifications, not "balance") make the game more boring and dull.

It can all be explained by one word: POPULARITY :D:D :smile02:

Loi

16 years ago

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Just based on feeling, subjectively—
playing VT can sometimes get tedious, but for some reason it doesn't happen in SoD :)

Wicc

16 years ago

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Of course, there are imbalances. A few, but they exist. We will fix them. The main imbalance is Brogh, for sure. He is the main candidate for a nerf. Everything else is generally okay (especially compared to Sodom), but there are a few places where it makes sense to make adjustments. Inferno without the Inferno patch is a rather dull castle. Yes, you can summon 80 demons on the 2nd level and crush everything, but more often than not, it turns out differently – either you don't have enough resources, or you don't have enough hiding places, or you have hiding places, but you've already lost your resources somewhere, etc. In general, it's difficult, and the requirements for the setup are perhaps the highest of all the castles. That's why people play Inferno the least. With the Inferno patch, it's already more fun – it adds stability, and starting options appear. As a result, it's an average-strength castle, somewhere on the level of Flax-Castle-Dungeon. After the Inferno patch was released, people started playing Inferno much more often. Regarding classes and speed, it's just ridiculous – Sodom's Kir, Gunnar, and Dessa have Luck from the start and are guaranteed to get mega-speed at the end. The other heroes cannot get mega-speed, and they may not even get Luck. Classes balance this component – if they don't give Luck, you can take an Explorer or Speedy. That is, the chances of being left with no speed at all are now much lower.

You can change it from 5 to 1-2%, for example. But don't just kill it.

I've already suggested this idea. But calculate the numbers, how much will 1% give at level 20. 2000 * 0.3 * 20 * 0.01 = 120 bonus moves. Almost the same. If it's 2%, then it's 240, which is also not great.

Lider1

16 years ago

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240 per day * 7 = 1680 per week. That’s quite reasonable.

In reply to Wicc

readme

16 years ago

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"As a result, it's an average-strength castle, somewhere on the level of Flax-Castle-Dungeon. After the Inferno patch was released, people started playing Inferno much more often."

An average-strength castle? No, Inferno is the strongest in War of the Titans!

In reply to readme

Wicc

16 years ago

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readme

"Ultimately, it's an average-strength Castle, somewhere on par with Flax-Castle-Dungeon. After the Inferno patch was released, people started playing as Inferno much more often."

An average-strength Castle? No, Inferno is the strongest in WT!"

Where did you get this information from? Personal guesses or did you check the statistics? :)

Demons are roughly like skeletons – quantity doesn't always translate into quality. People have killed 500 and even 800 demons. Because they are slow melee units, and therefore vulnerable to archers, fast or retaliatory melee units, magic, etc. Capturing and defending Castles can also be difficult.

Plus, as I said above, you still need to gather the demons, and it's not always possible; it requires skill and a certain amount of luck.

Added after 1 hour 53 minutes

Readme inferno - Wic tower, WT mm6, without trading: waiting for the Papacy =)

Why "tower"?

If someone claims that a certain Castle is the strongest, those who wish to refute this claim are given the right to choose a Castle of their own choosing.

Lider1

16 years ago

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Flooding.

Tavern – this is the RP coefficient, it is taken into account, and besides, it’s obvious that you’ll choose Brokha if you have a choice.

In general, you should ask Readmi first: D :D :D

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