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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to Kash
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#363
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Kash
I've said this before, and I'm saying it again, and I'll probably have to repeat it many times.
The current rule should not just be "possible," but necessary to be interpreted this way: for all questions and misunderstandings, players in this tournament should contact me, and not wherever they feel like. I am against them contacting the Arbitration Committee (AK) without my knowledge. I consider myself to be sufficiently reasonable and competent to resolve minor disputes, suspicions, and answer questions about the game. If I have any doubts, of course, I will contact you. It's not normal that I am "willing to resolve controversial situations" myself. It's normal that I resolve them.

A little off-topic.
I'm aware of the issue with V. When did he contact you? Two weeks ago? Three? Did you even look at the saves from that time? The guy is upset, says he'll leave the forum, nobody cares. I understand that you're busy, you have work, it's hard to get organized, etc., I'm not saying anything. But I don't have time to wait 3 weeks - the tournament started yesterday, and there are people who have already played 2 rounds.

In general, in this tournament, I am the organizer, the judge, and the highest authority. I create the rules, make the draws, and resolve disputes. In the tournament thread, only reports and posts from the organizer are not considered off-topic; I have the right to delete everything else as off-topic. If you don't like it, create your own tournaments and run them.

No! In your tournament, as in all other tournaments, the highest authority is the AK! Why, if a player is a beginner, can't he contact the AK? Why can other players, but not beginners? What kind of discrimination and self-judgment is this? Who do you think you are? You can certainly resolve controversial situations, but if a player wants the AK to investigate, that is his right, and it is the AK's duty to intervene and investigate. And the players should know this! For example, you refused to let readme participate in the tournament, and he felt that your decision was unfair and left the forum. I don't understand why he didn't contact the AK...

Added 8 minutes later
And regarding the fact that there's no time to wait, all organizers are busy. So why did we create the AK in the first place? It's the same thing, you're all busy, so you don't have time to wait for it to sort things out
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
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#364
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It's interesting what methods the Administration Committee (AC) has for making decisions that go against the wishes of the tournament organizer. Apparently, none. A ban from the forum isn't on the table, nor is closing the tournament thread. Comrade Navukh, for example, created a tournament where he explicitly stated that he wouldn't need any help from the AC and would resolve all issues himself. Where is the reaction from the outraged public? It's absent because everyone understands that with Comrade Navukh, his words and actions will align, no matter what. Kash has a reputation for being a more agreeable person, so it seems like his position could be challenged. But that's just an illusion. The most natural role for the AC, one that doesn't lead to major conflicts, is something like an analytical center combined with a hotline. In other words, when the AC's decisions are advisory in nature. For example, a statement like "player NNN is prohibited from participating in tournaments on HW due to this and that" could lead to an aggressive reaction from the community, such as "why are you prohibiting us from doing something, and who are you anyway?" But a statement like "tournament organizers are advised not to include player NNN in their tournaments due to this and that" doesn't force anyone to do anything, yet the effect is almost the same.
In reply to Wicc
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#365
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Wicc

Comrade Navukh has organized a tournament, stating openly that he will not need any assistance from the AK (Administration Committee), and will resolve all issues independently.
Yes, I've already seen it... It's sad. :( :( :( Then, what is the point of the AK at all?
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
In reply to Hermit
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#366
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Hermit
Then why is the Customer Support even needed?
I don't know either.

In the WT chat, the phrase "complain to Customer Support" is similar in meaning to telling someone to go take a hike.
In reply to Wicc
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#367
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Wicc
I don't know either.

In the WT chat, the phrase "complain to the Arbitration Committee" is similar in meaning to telling someone to go take a hike.
Yeah, including the Arbitration Committee itself... :(
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
In reply to Hermit
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#368
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Hermit
Yes, I've already seen it... It's sad. :( :( :( Then what's the point of the Arbitration Committee (AC) at all?
Probably, it's primarily needed by those who need it. If someone is willing to solve issues independently, why put them on crutches? You can organize an AC, a Constitutional Court, etc. - the ultimate criterion for the competence of the organizer will always be the players' trust and their willingness to participate in his tournaments - if that's not there, no AC will help.
Victor, the AC saves its members from having to deal with nonsense - sometimes you can hear such claims from newcomers that an experienced player would only call idiotic - and he takes on the responsibility of resolving all of this.

Another example: a team tournament, despite my good attitude towards Tatiana (I had the pleasure of meeting her in Michurinsk), I'm now even glad that Bohemia withdrew from the tournament. After the circus that keb' arranged there, the desire to participate in it would have disappeared anyway. A reasonable organizer would have long ago excluded him from the tournament, forcing the team to make a replacement or at least warning them about such a possibility.
In reply to Wicc
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#369
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Wicc
I don't know either.

In the WT chat, the phrase "complain to the Arbitration Committee" is similar in meaning to telling someone to go take a long walk.
I've always been surprised by the sarcasm of some truly awful people who don't appreciate other people's work. And the WT chat reminds me of a verbal sewer where a lot of garbage is dumped.

Regarding the position that Vitya took, I fully support him. We shouldn't allow every newbie to write to the Arbitration Committee when they don't understand why their opponent has an angel on the first week, etc. I'm sure that in such a tournament, many controversial situations arise, many of which remain off-screen and are resolved by the host. And we should thank him for that!

I would also like to remind you that any organizer has the right to involve or not involve the Arbitration Committee in resolving issues. If a person is so confident in their own competence that they can handle everything themselves and resolve all controversial issues, then good for them.

But if it happens that the hero-organizer catches a cheater, as he thinks, he can exclude him from his tournament and not include him in the next ones, but then he shouldn't write posts like: "Where is the Championship Committee? Why is the Arbitration Committee inactive?" etc.

Regarding the existence of the Arbitration Committee... I think the re-election will speak for itself...
In reply to PReDS
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#370
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PReDS
Probably, it is primarily needed by those who need it.
A recent poll showed that the Appeals Committee (AK) is needed by many, and the constant whining of a few disgruntled people doesn't count. It is incorrect to use the club tournament as an example – the AK is not needed there, everything is already visible.

Added 1 minute ago
Wicc

In the WT chat, the phrase "complain to the AK" is close in meaning to being sent on a long walk.
The WT chat is generally a garbage dump; it is often unpleasant to read, even for me.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
In reply to Dirty_Player
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#371
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Dirty_Player
Regarding the stance Vitya took, I fully support him. We shouldn't allow every newcomer to contact the Arbitration Committee (AC) when they don't understand why their opponent has an angel in the first week, etc. I'm sure that in such a tournament, many controversial situations arise, many of which remain off-screen and are resolved by the host. We should thank him for that!
It's better for them to contact the AC with such questions than not contact them at all... Although, I think there will be very few such requests.
Dirty_Player
I would also like to remind you that any organizer has the right to involve or not involve the AC in resolving issues. If a person is so confident in their own competence that they can handle everything themselves and resolve all controversial issues, then good for them.
Yes, but this does not deprive any player of the right to contact the AC in controversial situations, either with the organizer or directly. In other words, if the organizer does not involve the AC in resolving the issue, the player can still involve it independently of the organizer.
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
In reply to Wlk777
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#372
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Wlk777
It's incorrect to use the club tournament as an example – there, AK (anti-cheat) isn't needed, everything is already visible.
We're not talking about the club tournament, but about the "24 templates" tournament.
And the WT chat reminds me of a verbal sewer, where a lot of garbage is dumped.
The WT chat is generally a garbage dump; it's often unpleasant to read, even for me.
Before the WT chat existed, all of this was written in ICQ. The meaning is the same, only it's less visible.

Public opinion is a thing that cannot be fixed by moderation; it can only be driven deeper.

Moreover, as historical experience shows, it is in such "garbage dumps" that everything originates – language, morals, and culture. What is said among the people today is discussed in offices tomorrow, the day after that it is spoken from the podium, and the day after that it is written into the constitution.
In reply to Hermit
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#373
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Hermit
For example, you refused to let readme participate in the tournament, and he felt that your decision was unfair, so he left the forum. I don't understand why he didn't go to the AK...

The theater of the absurd opened on Monday.
Yes, by the way. Positivum also needs help; he should at least go to the AK. Maybe it would be better if the AK decided everything? Today, for example, I didn't know which socks to wear: orange or red. Now I know where to go; I'll immediately contact the AK and let them decide. Seven people are definitely smarter than me. :smile23:
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

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#374
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Why not... I remember when I first joined the forum and wanted to sign up for a tournament, I was denied because I had already played too many ranked games, even though my skill level was almost zero at the time. If there had been a Tournament Committee back then, I would have appealed.
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
In reply to Wicc
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#375
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Wicc
We're not talking about a club tournament, but about the "24 templates" tournament.
This means that there weren't any serious controversial situations in this tournament – otherwise, there would have been dissatisfied players in any case.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
In reply to Wicc
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#376
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Wicc
Moreover, as historical experience shows, it is precisely in such "cesspools" that everything originates – language, morals, and culture. What is said among the people today is discussed in offices tomorrow, the day after it is spoken from the podium, and the day after that it is written into the constitution.
Oh, is it really unclear that what is written in instant messengers should remain there? Of course, it is impossible to be good for everyone, and there will always be those who are disgruntled and embittered by fate (or nature), who will say all sorts of nonsense. In essence, the in-game chat is a means of mass communication that any player can see, even if they don't want to. If our media could publish everything that old women on benches and men in pubs say, sharing their opinions about the government, the legislative and judicial branches, then chaos would have long since ensued.

Added 1 minute ago
Wlk777
So, in this tournament, there were no serious controversial situations – otherwise, there would have been dissatisfied people in any case.
No, there won't be any dissatisfied people there... The tournament died almost as soon as it started
In reply to Dirty_Player
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#377
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Dirty_Player
If our media could publish everything that old women on benches and men in pubs say, sharing their opinions about the government, the legislative and judicial branches, then the apocalypse would have come a long time ago.
Now, the internet exists for this purpose, and not just in our country. And the apocalypse, for some reason, is not happening. Rather, the opposite is true; it has become easier for public opinion to hold officials accountable.