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Offline Wicc
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#1535
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Wlk777
First of all, I apologize, but I don't think the developers of Heroes are any less intelligent than you are. If they made it this way initially, there was probably a good reason.
I think that the developers from 10 years ago were less knowledgeable than I am today when it comes to understanding competitive gameplay in Heroes.

The idea of setting a limit on turns on the map, but not on battles, must have come to one of the developers while they were very hungover, because I don't see any clear reasons for it. There are also no analogues of this in other competitive activities with time control.

Therefore, as soon as a more or less acceptable tool appeared in the form of WOG, the idea of creating a normal timer came to the community quite quickly.
Secondly, battles and chains of actions are simply different things, at least in terms of the amount of time they take. Chains of actions can and should be planned in advance, for example, during the opponent's turn.
Unfortunately, situations where you can plan all the chains of actions during the opponent's turn are not very common. Usually, there is exploration of the map, new perspectives are revealed, and battles can also unfold in different ways. And if the opponent is also running around in your field of vision, then the degree of predictability of events is even lower.

By the way, personally, I would prefer the opposite - unlimited time on the map and time control in battles. Because battles are 90% or more typical, the number of options is limited, and almost all of them have been practiced countless times in games.

But actions on the map have a much wider range of options, plus they strongly load the intuition, the quality of which noticeably depends on the amount of time available for thinking.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1536
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Alessandro
1800+300, 3000+400, 4000+400, 4000+500, who can offer more?
We were playing with Therm on a межпортал map. I asked for an unlimited time limit. He offered 6000+400 in response. I agreed, thinking it was the same thing. Imagine my surprise when I found myself in a time crunch on the second week and had to play the entire game like it was Starcraft :D

You can play with any time limit, the question is which is better. Why don't they play unlimited time in chess? In theory, the more time, the better... But it turns out that's not necessarily true ;) Chess even has world championships in blitz. And this type of tournament is becoming increasingly popular. Let's think about why? After all, blitz is also about the ability to react quickly... Maybe in the future, Heroes will also have a blitz league and a classic league.
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Offline Wicc
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#1537
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Wlk777
What are you even talking about? Is it also "grinding" to kill enemies with a 20-unit army and a cart, dealing around 100 damage? If you like clicking quickly, go play Starcraft or CS, stop promoting such terrible ideas here.
The closest analogue to Heroes is chess, and in no serious chess tournament do they play with unlimited time, nor do they offer more control than in classical chess. Plus, there are many tournaments with shortened time controls.

If you want to think calmly, you can analyze games, play correspondence games, create puzzles, etc. But in tournament games, time control is a serious strategic element that requires appropriate attention.

I don't see any reason why it should be different in Heroes.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1538
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Wicc
- there's no point in fighting a couple of snakes against zombies :). Because it's not skill, it's just grinding. Or clicking very quickly in this battle.
I disagree. If you need to win this battle for the best result, then you can grind a little.

Question for everyone: Has anyone in online mode ever tried to kill a bunch of zombies with a snake and a ballista? Seriously. Was it interesting? Because you also need to have good terrain, otherwise they might get stuck...

I had it in a game against KostiN. Playing as Fortress, I attacked zombies on day 111, and the gremlins ran out of arrows, so I finished off about 15 zombies with a ballista. But I wouldn't say it took very long...
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Offline Wlk777
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#1539
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Go away with your talk about time limits in battles; if you like fast-paced clicking, play Starcraft. Don't suggest anything like that to me, and I'm not going to argue about this topic anymore; I'm tired of it. Those who want to can play with a 1-minute time limit for the entire turn, including battles, and be proud of it.

Added 3 minutes later
Wicc
The closest analogue to Heroes is chess, and in no serious chess tournament do they play with unlimited time, nor do they offer more control than in classical chess. Plus, there are many tournaments with shortened time controls. If you want to think calmly, you can analyze games, play correspondence games, create puzzles, etc. But in tournament games, time control is a serious strategic element that requires appropriate attention. I don't see any reason why it should be different in Heroes.
Do you want to turn Heroes into chess? It won't work for you :p Chess sucks, Heroes rule :cool:
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1540
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Wlk777
Go away with your complaints about the battle time; if you like fast-paced clicking, play Starcraft. Don't suggest anything like that to me, and I'm not going to argue about this anymore; I'm tired of it. Those who want to can play with just 1 minute for the entire turn, including battles, and be proud of it.
Here you are arguing. Have you even tried playing with 4000+400? I think that for you, it's all the same because you move very quickly and don't have super-difficult battles every turn. Am I wrong?

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Wlk777
Do you want to turn Heroes into chess? It won't work for you :p Chess sucks, Heroes rule :cool:
To play Heroes and chess successfully, you need completely the same qualities.
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Offline Wicc
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#1541
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Dirty_Player
I disagree here. If this fight is necessary for an optimal result, then it's worth the grind.
Of course, sometimes such fights happen, and you also need to be able to conduct them. The point is that you have to pay a corresponding price in the form of timer expenditure.

An example from tournament practice — the fixed map MvM, at the starting position of Dungeon, next to the Castle, there is a Dwarf Cottage. There isn't much gold, so it's desirable to somehow break that Dwarf Cottage. But what to do if it's a large one? Obviously — upgrade the Harpies and break it with them. Tests have shown that with proper combat technique, you can break even a maxed one at 111. For this map, the gold bonus is huge...

But the price to pay is also corresponding — the timer is completely depleted. That is, you need to plan the development of day 1 so that you can retreat with all heroes, max out your credit, do all the necessary tasks, and only then go into the Dwarf Cottage for the gold.

At the same time, you need to assess whether such a move will pay off, carefully plan the development of week 1 (to not only play correctly on the dropping flag but also save time for week 2), and also plan the actual battle technique, because the Dwarves can pin you down, especially if they are in a stack.

This is exactly what is called game skill. If time in battle didn't tick, you could conduct several such fights per day and never worry about the timer at all.
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Offline RAPER
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#1542
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Has anyone online ever tried to kill a bunch of zombies with a snake-like formation and a ballista? Seriously. Was it interesting? Because you also need to be lucky with the terrain, otherwise they might get surrounded...
Well, not exactly like that... but a good example is Scorp. I've watched his games many times, and he often (almost in every game I've seen live) chases down melee units with shooters and a ballista... The last time I saw it was in Michurinsk, with a couple of Thunderbirds and a Phoenix. It doesn't last long... In the first few rounds (up to 10), you're basically developing the strategy, and then it becomes automatic.
играю на уровне AI !!:smile32: ;)
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Offline Kash
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#1544
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Dirty_Player
Question for everyone: Has anyone ever tried to kill a large group of zombies online using a Serpent and a Ballista? Seriously. Was it interesting? Because you also need to have favorable terrain, otherwise they might surround you.
It happened a couple of times. In general, I try to avoid such battles, but sometimes it's just necessary. I remember once, I was playing against Spirit. Inferno. I really needed either mercury or ore, and the only thing I saw was that I could take a low-level unit with a fake and a ballista, but without a skill, for about 80 zombies. I warned Temu. I was destroying them for quite a long time, about 15 minutes. The terrain helped.

Regarding the topic. I don't pay attention to the time in battle; it's not my thing. Standard battles, of which there are hundreds, pass quickly anyway; why should I be pressured by time? But the pace requires something unusual, and unusual situations require at least some thought, otherwise, it's a loss.
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Offline scorp
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#1545
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Dirty_Player

Question for everyone: Has anyone in online mode ever tried to kill a large group of zombies with a serpent and a ballista? Seriously. Was it interesting? After all, you also need to be lucky with the terrain, otherwise they might surround you...

in reality, everything is killed quite quickly with a cannon, if you don't drink cognac during the battle and don't smoke cigars)), for this you just need to see or try it a couple of times (knowing the battle algorithm)

for a battle with 1 or 1+1 flies, the terrain is, on the contrary, an obstacle, it is ideal if there are no obstacles at all!!! and you need to have an attack of at least 0)), because the damage will be 1-2 even on a direct shot. /and it is desirable that the monsters have a speed of no more than 3/, if you are using several, you need to bring neutral creatures to a direct shot, but not closer than two moves of the neutral creatures to the cannon /example: zombies-3, do not bring them closer than 6 cells, because they may not crawl after the flies, or they may rush to the cannon in one move/

I often use ambushes with 7 goblins and gain experience with the cannon /you can also use advanced goblins, but with a higher attack, because the double damage from the shot does not always occur/
RAPER
well, not exactly... but a good example of this is Scorp)) I have watched his games many times, and he often (almost in every game I have seen live) chases footmen with a ballista...))

well, it doesn't take long... in the first rounds (up to 10), you, of course, develop the algorithm, so to speak, and then it's on autopilot))

Thank you, Mikhail)), he showed me what a machine gun is, and I adapted it for myself (Mizrael)

P.S.: We are waiting for round 8 in the team match, Mikhail vs. Mikhail, it's a debt :smile35:
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Offline Wlk777
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#1546
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Dirty_Player
You're arguing. But have you tried playing with 4000+400? It seems to me that for you, it's the same as unlimited because you move very quickly and don't have super-difficult battles every turn. Am I wrong?
I just find it funny.
Dirty_Player
I played with Term in a межпортал game. I asked for unlimited. He offered 6000+400 in response. I agreed, thinking it was the same thing. Imagine my surprise when I found myself in a time crunch in the second week and played the whole game like in Starcraft :D
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That's why I don't want to try it, although I do move quickly and will probably not lose even with a small limit. BUT I want COMFORT in the game and I DON'T UNDERSTAND why, because of some unknown mythical fans who want to unnecessarily prolong the game (I haven't encountered such people in hundreds of my online games with many dozens of players), all normal, good-faith players should experience stress??? Explain it to me, you simpleton!!! I also don't accept the idea of controlling time in battle because I'm seriously afraid that the time will be reduced gradually, they will start holding votes, some teenagers aged 5 to 15 who have played CS and Heroes for two days will emerge and, with a legitimate majority, adopt something like a limit of one minute per turn, including battles, so one way or another, the speed of mouse work will become the main component of skill (as it is now in Starcraft). No, guys, wake up - Heroes 3 is a TURN-BASED strategy, and that's all there is to it.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1547
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Wlk777
I just find it funny.
Don't laugh. Just answer the questions. Have you played with a control of 4000+400? And if so, how often did you find yourself in a situation where there wasn't enough time for battles?
Wlk777
No, guys, wake up - Heroes 3 is a TURN-BASED strategy, and that's all there is to it.
What is the connection between the word "TURN-BASED" and time control? :confused: Why shouldn't these very turns be somehow limited?

And what's so bad about winning by thinking faster than your opponent? Of course, no one is suggesting playing Heroes like the Koreans, but nevertheless, blitz discipline also has the right to exist.

P.S.: In World Tree, there is a super-quick option that saves a lot of combat time on elementary battles.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#1548
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Dirty_Player


P.S.: In Warlords, there's a super-quick spell that saves a lot of combat time on basic battles.

Considering this, the arguments are pointless. And I would advise those who enjoy battles where a single ballista (especially without a skill) and 2 flies take down 100 zombies to learn to respect their own time and the time of their opponent.
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Offline wowa
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#1549
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redwhait
I considered it a block because there was only 1 free road to the town, the rest of the respawn was closed off by 100+ stacks of eyes for a bag of gold, and scorpions stood on the rough terrain. In the end, I couldn't break through or go anywhere. I left, the opponent looked and said it's not a block. :(

"Thanks for the game"

the question is the trickiest here))))
but in this situation — since it's a team tournament — it's better to address not the opponent, but the judges, to eliminate even a hint of subjectivity ;)

I suggest sending the save to objective and respected Heroes players — if they say it's a block — rematch considering the restarts taken, and if it's not a block — then obviously a loss! :)

p.s.: but if you yourself are absolutely not 100% sure it's a block — then it's better to just continue playing, because there's always a chance ;) otherwise you're risking everything, and you might easily miss unnoticeable gaps at the edge of the fog of war, which will turn the game into a simple loss!....:smile48:
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny
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Offline Redwhait
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#1550
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wowa
The question here is very subtle.)))
But in this situation – since it’s a team tournament – it’s better to address not the opponent, but the judges, to eliminate even the slightest hint of subjectivity. ;)

I suggest sending the save to objective and respected Heroes players – if they say that it was a block – then it’s a rematch, taking into account the restarts, and if it wasn’t a block – then it’s clear, it’s a loss! :)

P.S.: But if you are absolutely not 100% sure about the block – then it’s better to continue the game, because there are always chances ;) otherwise, you’re betting everything on it, and at the same time, you might not take into account the inconspicuous weaknesses on the border with the darkness, which will turn the game into a simple loss!....:smile48:

The map was in a state where, even if it wasn’t a block, there was no point in continuing the game...
http://slil.ru/28881476
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