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Posts from [ANNOUNCEMENT] Heroes 3: World Tournament - an add-on for tournament games.
With the interlocutor's permission, I am publishing a dialogue with asm (with minor cuts and corrections — off-topic, typos, repetitions, etc...):
... Loi (15:19:16 9/03/2010) tested VT yesterday Loi (14:00:25 9/03/2010) played up to 127 with Korg Loi (14:00:47 9/03/2010) as you understand, I'm a typical SoD player Loi (14:00:53 9/03/2010) there are many like that asm (14:00:57 9/03/2010) uh-huh Loi (14:01:01 9/03/2010) and there will always be many like that Loi (14:01:22 9/03/2010) not that I'm a principled supporter of it Loi (14:01:34 9/03/2010) it's just that I play to relax Loi (14:01:42 9/03/2010) so... Loi (14:03:11 9/03/2010) maybe — for faster and, more importantly, long-term success in spreading VT — it's worth working on the SoD front too? Loi (14:03:34 9/03/2010) let me explain... asm (14:03:35 9/03/2010) well, I plan to make SoD gameplay... ... Loi (14:04:17 9/03/2010) here, I specifically want to convey the player's feeling... Loi (14:04:38 9/03/2010) step into the shoes of a neophyte, so to speak... Loi (14:05:09 9/03/2010) so I played yesterday Loi (14:05:21 9/03/2010) tried to set everything up like in SoD Loi (14:05:31 9/03/2010) only enabled experience asm (14:05:38 9/03/2010) > only enabled experience pointless ) Loi (14:05:44 9/03/2010) experience is normal Loi (14:05:54 9/03/2010) it fits the spirit of the game itself very well Loi (14:06:20 9/03/2010) all real players understand this quickly Loi (14:06:55 9/03/2010) what annoyed me most was a bunch of small and annoying changes Loi (14:07:14 9/03/2010) immediately ... Loi (14:07:57 9/03/2010) I'm not against these changes at all! Loi (14:08:23 9/03/2010) POSSIBLY they are more balanced Loi (14:08:49 9/03/2010) I'm against the fact that they are forced upon me in gameplay without alternative Loi (14:09:17 9/03/2010) for example — moving DD into water Loi (14:09:48 9/03/2010) ...(deleted my personal opinion on this, acceptable only in private..) Loi (14:10:11 9/03/2010) it would be more competent like this, imho: Loi (14:10:34 9/03/2010) basically asm (14:10:52 9/03/2010) I made VT based on TE and mainly dealt not with gameplay, but with interface things: easy installation, chat, anti-cheat, simultaneous turns, etc. Loi (14:11:42 9/03/2010) ... asm (14:11:58 9/03/2010) I just didn't get around to the gameplay... Loi (14:12:32 9/03/2010) is it possible not to touch the gameplay at all (in the base edition)? Loi (14:13:02 9/03/2010) and leave "interface things, easy installation, chat, anti-cheat, simultaneous turns, etc."? asm (14:13:34 9/03/2010) yes, I want to make a setting with SoD gameplay in the future Loi (14:13:46 9/03/2010) clear Loi (14:13:54 9/03/2010) imho — that will solve it Loi (14:14:18 9/03/2010) I just wanted to warn, although maybe I'm being too cautious asm (14:14:41 9/03/2010) actually, even now if you disable everything, what remains significant is: - balance of magic schools - altered Heroes Loi (14:14:43 9/03/2010) there is and will be a surge of interest in VT right now, which I'm very glad about! Loi (14:15:05 9/03/2010) - balance of magic schools - altered Heroes
Loi (14:15:22 9/03/2010) is this hard-coded without alternative? asm (14:15:35 9/03/2010) currently, yes Loi (14:15:38 9/03/2010) understand — this is much more annoying Loi (14:15:49 9/03/2010) than the same experience Loi (14:16:07 9/03/2010) this is exactly a gameplay change asm (14:16:13 9/03/2010) but I'm telling you that I plan to make SoD gameplay as a setting Loi (14:16:18 9/03/2010) clear Loi (14:16:23 9/03/2010) one last thing Loi (14:17:37 9/03/2010) there is and will be a surge of interest in VT right now, which I'm very glad about! It's important not to spill or blow this moment — and the same "make SoD gameplay as a setting" should ideally be done as quickly as possible, imho ... Loi (14:18:52 9/03/2010) moreover — CLEARLY declare (I will help if my help is needed) that EVERYTHING there is the same as in SoD (in base settings) + goodies! Loi (14:19:32 9/03/2010) the main thing is not to scare people away with a bunch of changed parameters Loi (14:19:49 9/03/2010) I set almost everything like in SoD Loi (14:20:14 9/03/2010) but I got a bit lost yesterday Loi (14:20:19 9/03/2010) in strategy asm (14:21:43 9/03/2010) ...there was a comment from asm here, positive but irrelevant to the matter and concerning a third party — I took the liberty of deleting it :) Loi (14:22:17 9/03/2010) 1 searched through a bunch of shrines with a couple of scouts — looking for slow)) 2 didn't account for the fact that Experience allows for a relatively earlier transition to treasure hunting Loi (14:22:24 9/03/2010) I haven't even lost yet)) asm (14:22:35 9/03/2010) ) Loi (14:22:47 9/03/2010) I showed my mistakes as an example of typical blunders asm (14:22:51 9/03/2010) you can rebuild the Mages' Guild Loi (14:23:04 9/03/2010) that's normal Loi (14:23:13 9/03/2010) that's an over-gameplay thing Loi (14:23:22 9/03/2010) like anti-cheat Loi (14:23:29 9/03/2010) even like experience Loi (14:23:35 9/03/2010) but — the change in magic Loi (14:23:42 9/03/2010) and heroes Loi (14:23:53 9/03/2010) imho — wrong from the point of view of successful implementation asm (14:24:03 9/03/2010) so, only the change in magic doesn't suit you? Loi (14:24:15 9/03/2010) wrong conclusion Loi (14:24:29 9/03/2010) not "me", as in Loi personally Loi (14:24:45 9/03/2010) I'm generally tolerant of changes in principle Loi (14:24:59 9/03/2010) but a typical SoD player... Loi (14:25:47 9/03/2010) "only the change in magic?" — everything that changes gameplay, including the change in magic Loi (14:31:30 9/03/2010) it's all for you to decide, of course Loi (14:32:28 9/03/2010) I also just want the idea of VT as a single standard to get widespread adoption Loi (14:32:48 9/03/2010) for this, everyone must make many compromises, I believe Loi (14:33:15 9/03/2010) I'm just trying to convey the feelings and moods of many players Loi (14:33:25 9/03/2010) that's why we are discussing all this Loi (14:33:48 9/03/2010) yesterday — 6-7 people watched this game of mine Loi (14:34:36 9/03/2010) many have initial interest now — let's not scare them off... Loi (14:34:56 9/03/2010) so right now, give it to them — here is your SoD Loi (14:35:27 9/03/2010) and let VT be above TE and SoD Loi (14:36:09 9/03/2010) imho — this is most relevant right now Loi (14:36:32 9/03/2010) if, of course, there's a desire to sharply expand the area of distribution... Loi (14:37:24 9/03/2010) sorry that it's a bit haphazard Loi (14:37:43 9/03/2010) no time to write more concisely) asm (14:39:58 9/03/2010) and it seems to me that SoD gameplay is of course a good thing, but primary... I think a few small changes in gameplay shouldn't scare people away, it's much more important to make a convenient place for the game: where a person could easily find an opponent, easily configure and start the game, play a full match in minimum time without detriment to the game, register a victory, chat with other heroes.... and the implementation of SoD gameplay seems to me as a way to complete and round out the picture asm (14:41:50 9/03/2010) for example, there's an idea (and I've already dug up material for implementation) to replace Hamachi, i.e., my server will also replace VPN... asm (14:42:39 9/03/2010) and this is especially important for beginners... because if beginners don't come, then sooner or later it will all wither away... Loi (14:45:59 9/03/2010) if beginners don't come, Loi (14:46:08 9/03/2010) key factor, yeah Loi (14:46:33 9/03/2010) that's exactly why I tried to convey the feelings of a neophyte.... Loi (14:47:04 9/03/2010) to help somehow in this noble cause) asm (14:47:09 9/03/2010) ) Loi (14:47:10 9/03/2010) in that Loi (14:47:43 9/03/2010) let me know when you make the SoD gameplay? asm (14:47:50 9/03/2010) ok Loi (14:48:00 9/03/2010) you could immediately make a wide tournament on ХВ as well Loi (14:48:19 9/03/2010) I'll run the same sergeant one on it, by the way) asm (14:48:30 9/03/2010) good Loi (14:48:34 9/03/2010) ok
Please also share your impressions, like "VT for SoD players: first impressions — pros and cons..." — without bazaar squabbles and personal attacks, please — it will be a hindrance and there's a risk of ruining an important topic...
тенью бездомной
16 years ago
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Loi
as you understand, I'm a typical SOD player... my experience is normal... this fits very well with the spirit of the game itself... all real players understand this quickly[/B]
uh...
so, I'm not a real player :( but I'll still add my two cents
we need to create a fully SOD-style gameplay, with a checkbox and play your SOD with all the Warlock-style features check another box and play SOD with creature experience, or without experience but with a new GM don't check the boxes and play Warlock, which will constantly change be balanced, etc. whatever you like
but we shouldn't force the SOD gameplay from Loi or from Shadow Without a Home
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Loi Tournament - an add-on for tournament games the same SOD but with creature experience :smile32: thank you! maybe we don't need any more tournaments and editions, we should finish these first.
Loi
16 years ago
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Words:
Loi (14:05:44 9/03/2010) experience - normal Loi (14:05:54 9/03/2010) this really fits the spirit of the game Loi (14:06:20 9/03/2010) all true players understand this quickly
I forgot to delete this from the chat... Please consider this as private, purely personal opinion, and not directly related to the matter...
we need to create a fully SOD-style gameplay. Put a checkmark, and play your SOD with all the Warlock-style features. Put another checkmark and play SOD with creature experience, or without experience but with a new game mechanic. If you don't put any checkmarks, play Warlock, which will constantly change, be balanced, and so on. Everyone can choose what they like. ..
With so many checkmarks, it will turn into THAT.:) Play SOD.
тенью бездомной
16 years ago
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I play both SOD and Warlords of the East. :)
In Warlords of the East, there are also a ton of checkboxes; it took me a while to figure it all out. :)
There's only one missing - SOD
All the other checkboxes are already there, for experience, for GM, and so on.
KobRa_RR
16 years ago
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I'll tell you about my first impressions of TE. We played the Danger Zone map with Bayazet in a tournament, where he quickly leveled up his low-level creatures on the swamp (back then, there was 100% experience gain, but only for those who participated in the battle), and in the early third week, he defeated my considerable army of higher-level, but under-leveled, creatures. This happened 1 or 2 more times, and I hated TE. I didn't understand the point of it at all. But I set myself the goal of figuring it out, reread Horn's manual, and gradually began to understand the essence of the changes, and over time, I finally understood why everything was done the way it was. In TE, everything is done exclusively for balance and convenience. For convenience – buttons and all sorts of divisions; now, they've even added new resolutions, 1280*1024 instead of the standard 800*600. For balance – they raised the power of the magic schools (before, everyone only took Earth and Air), fixed the overpowered heroes – one player had 3-4 heroes, including a Resurrector or Solmyr, while another had some kind of Pikedram, removed the cheating ability to view the opponent's heroes and cities, and introduced classes and upgrades for variety in game tactics and to have something to counter the opponent's strong units. Of course, there are some rather controversial innovations, such as the new teleports (teleport entrance/exit points are transformed into 2-tile structures), or new map templates like 8mm6a instead of 8mm6, but overall, the balance is incomparably better than in version 3.2
Please also share your impressions, like "VT for SOD players: first impressions - pros and cons..." - without arguments and personal attacks, please - it can disrupt the discussion and there is a risk of derailing an important topic...
What ASM did is great! But the SOD VT probably won't happen anytime soon (or won't happen at all). The goal of VT is to popularize TE-full. In other words, the goal of VT is to increase the number of players on Heroes of Might and Magic. This is a very smart move from the perspective of the game. And if, in addition to the VT on TE-full, a VT is made for TE-lite (TE-SOD style), IMHO: there will be fewer people on the full version than on the lite version.
P.S. Yesterday, I played a game on VT with the Panic hero. This template in VT is significantly changed compared to the Panic we know: 1) There is a Guard Tower between the Necropolis towers (not critical, but a change) 2) The opponent came to me along the route: home base - Necropolis tower - village - village - my Necropolis tower. There is no city with a gold mine on the route! In the original template, there are 3 routes (home base - base at the Necropolis tower (village) - village - city with a gold mine - village - opponent's Necropolis tower - opponent's base)
P.S. Yesterday, I played a game on the VT map. This template on VT is significantly changed compared to the Panic map we know: 1) There is a GO (Guard Outpost) between the Necropolis towers (not critical, but a change) 2) The opponent came to me along the following route: home base - Necropolis tower - village - village - my Necropolis tower. There is no city with a gold mine on the route! In the original template, there are 3 paths along the route (home base - base at the Necropolis tower (village) - village - city with a gold mine - village - opponent's Necropolis tower - opponent's base).
Which is strange, because the templates haven't changed :)
StickyFingaz
16 years ago
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The balance was definitely changed somehow; instead of starting cities, there are villages. And it would be better to remove panic and all sorts of balance adjustments altogether.
It's strange, because the templates haven't changed :)
There are many different variations, like balance 9 and balance 16. The numbers seem to indicate the number of zones, but I'm not sure... Correct me if I'm wrong.
We need to check, maybe something was uploaded incorrectly...
Yeah, check it. Vic sent me the templates, and I didn't verify them. I just inserted what he gave me! There was an issue with Jebus... Maybe there's something wrong with the other templates too.... Anyway, check it, and if needed, send me the correct templates.
Added 4 hours and 3 minutes ago Alessandro
What ASM did is great! But the SOD's VT probably won't happen soon (or won't happen at all). The goal of VT is to popularize TE-full. In other words, the goal of VT is to increase the number of players on HeroesBay. This is a very smart move from the bay's perspective. And if, in addition to VT on TE-full, they create a VT on TE-lite (SOD-style), IMHO: there will be fewer people on the full version than on the lite version.
Actually, the default settings are much closer to SOD than to TE. And various options like monster experience, bank, and tax are more of a tribute to TE.
Wicc
16 years ago
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wowa
We played on WT.
What's the point? Gunnar has a severely limited spellbook; he's not better than Moner or Pir.
What's the point? Gunnar's Logistics is neutered there, he's no better than Monere or Pyre.
Then why does Gunnar have 2700 MP on Angels at level 10, while Shakhtyor with Expert Logistics has 2600 (speed artifacts removed) - I just checked specifically, maybe you're mistaken? Shakhtyor is indeed slightly nerfed though; at the start he usually has around 100+-5 Troglodytes in total, while in SoD even with two stacks it's more than that....
