Posts from HeroesWT only!! New L-U size template.

Hello, fellow same-game heroes!

Edited!!! The template has changed compared to the previous description; I've deleted some posts and compiled the info here http://phomm.narod.ru/templates.htm

I have been thinking about this for a long time; the modern playstyle is quite uniform in terms of strategy: scouting, gathering, attrition, and marching. Of course, I am not suggesting changing the style now, but rather fine-tuning its components based on their effective influence on the outcome. I've studied various sources, including the Wiki, and decided to create a new template to establish a new playstyle. This new style is "marching blitz"—ultra-fast gameplay. The template was designed specifically for Heroes3WT.

Remember, if an interesting gameplay template results from this, a new style will emerge and fill the L-U size niche (currently, people usually play L+U - smka, HL-U Jebus Cross, HL+U - 8mm6)

Good luck with your tests )))

Firstly, the L-U niche is already occupied by Balance and Panic, and I think it makes sense to improve them (for example, on Panic, I would increase the guard strength of the passages by one and a half to two times, except for the entrance from the starting zone, etc.). Regarding this template, I'll note that it resembles Panic but is still very raw. What is this – a passage from the starting zone to the Treasury, guarded by, say, 20 demons, while the adjacent resource point has 10 knights or 23 liches? In general, it's unclear what to do in the first week – there's nothing to do in the Treasury with the starting army, and it's often impossible to reach the adjacent resource point. There are more than 10 Hives, and they are very clustered. In one of the generations, 8 out of 12 Hives on the map were in the Treasury, which can be easily reached from the starting spawn and cleared in about a week. There were also 2 portals of glory there. In another generation, the passage from the capitals to the capital took 3 days to reach, guarded by (13 scorpions + 29 golden golems + 21 monks + 21 griffin riders). In short, the conclusion is that this template needs a lot of work, or it would be better to improve Panic or Balance.

"Excuse me" (in a slurred voice), but the fact that all treasure rooms are guarded by 6000 (except for the center, which is richer) like on a Small Map – 6000, what do you think that means??? I don't understand what the complaints are about the passages; many people clear secondary objectives on a Small Map with 112 units! And, of course, the center has a stronger guard, but it can still be taken down in one go with 121 units, especially considering that there are usually 1-2 level ambushes on the map, so you can fight using only them.

I accept suggestions in the form of numbers from those who understand map design, or from people who have generated maps ten times (in the editor, I don't even ask for it in the game) and have seen a clear trend towards some kind of problem.
Well, the problem of generating treasure rooms of different sizes, as a result of which there may be a lot of good loot in one, and little in others, is a problem of the random map generator. I, of course, tried to minimize this influence (the sizes of the treasure room zones are very small), but still, sometimes the random map generator will not divide it correctly and will throw everything in, this is not a problem of the template!

Yes, I added a picture and re-uploaded the archive with the fixes; I ask those who have already downloaded it to download it again

Dear rHOMM, if you don't want me to, I won't criticize your template anymore. Consider that completing the Treasury in 20 turns with 20 demons and the secondary objective in 20+ turns with 20+ liches is normal – well, that's your right, I've expressed my opinion, but I think many will disagree with you...

Sorry, but on the small map, will you also go to the secondary treasure (guard - 6000, the same as mine in the treasury) after 20 demons, but only on the 2nd week? I wanted to refrain from commenting, but this is already the 3rd time I'm explaining something obvious! And regarding the "secondary treasure," as you put it, I don't see anything strange about it, because it's not a secondary treasure, but a treasury with a village, with a guard of 10,000, and 20+ liches is not the biggest guard yet; the tastier the treasury, the bigger the guard...

You see, all L-U templates for two players aren't really a playable option; there's too little territory, and luck in the initial distribution plays too big a role. L+U isn't much better in this regard; of the ones I know, only Mini-Nostalgia is somewhat playable, and even then, there are some issues. Therefore, the tournament trend is shifting towards XL+U templates with companions. But even there, the main strategic niches are already occupied; you need a fairly original template to break into the standard list.

Forgive me, but on the Small Map, will you also be going for secondary locations (with a guard of 6000, just like mine in the Treasure location) only on the second week, after 20 demons?
I wanted to refrain from commenting, but this is already the third time I'm explaining something obvious!

As for what you called "secondary locations," I don't see anything strange about it, because it's not a secondary location, but a Treasure location with a village, with a guard of 10,000, and 20+ liches is not the biggest guard. The tastier the Treasure location, the bigger the guard...

Sorry, you're being difficult. Is it really that hard to understand that in a Treasure location with a starting army, there's absolutely nothing to do in 95% of cases? On the Small Map, the first week is spent capturing secondary locations/defending resources, but it's unclear what to do on your map; there are practically no other options besides clearing your own starting area. On the Small Map, by the time you reach the Treasure location, you've already taken at least one secondary location, often found something interesting, and so on. But here, what do you do – clear your own starting area in the first week, and by the second week, there will be contact in 95% of games. In short, it's a boring and uninteresting template, IMHO. Sorry for being so blunt...

This game was played online back in 2004-2005. It was complete garbage and very unbalanced.
It eventually died out on its own.

2 VLK. I don't mean to argue, but the template was designed this way — occupying your own zone as much as possible and marching through the treasure zone without major bonuses, to kill the enemy, while consuming any remaining treasure zones if possible. It's a speed-focused game, but not overly extravagant; respawns are moderately rich and sufficient for early development, in my opinion, while by the second week a meeting is very likely. This is blitz, even faster than SMK (disregarding specific cases; SMK on average is played until mid-to-late week 3), whereas here a typical result is the end of week 2.

2 Vik. The distribution always matters, and leaning into scale does not guarantee balance. The game is indeed more stable, even, and measured, so to speak... but here I aimed to create an especially fast-paced game, because even on SMK players progress very quickly to treasure zones by the start of week 2... while here you can kill 1-2 enemy units as early as week 1, simultaneously assessing the goodies and setting priorities for week 2, during which contact will begin, making the center another contact-strategic arena.

2 Forrest. I don't think comparisons are warranted — the template has been seriously reworked, adjusted to the current faction layout for online play, and is largely balanced, also taking into account the modern style and tempo of the game.

In any case, please offer specific suggestions and criticism; let's work with data!

here I aimed to create a particularly fast-paced game, because even on smka players reach the treasure zone very quickly by the start of the second week... and here you can even take out 1-2 AI opponents on the first week, while appreciating the goodies and setting priorities for the second week, when contact will begin, and the center will become another contact-strategic area.

I liked the goal itself. It would be great if it can be realized. But for now, the scheme in the picture is much more appealing than what actually turns out in practice.

What bothers me is the placement of the roads — from the starting positions to the center, but not to the corner treasure zones, and the passages to them will often be hard to find, not to mention "skipping them on the way to the AI", you could even run into a corner treasure zone that takes about 5 days of travel to reach the AI. The impression from the early generations is that the corner treasure zones will often go unused, with encounters in the center already happening as early as the first week.

And how would it look on M size? Perhaps the zones would be more even in size. As it stands, one of the "small" (corner) treasure zones is truly small, while another "small" one is about six times larger than the starting respawn.

Anyway, good luck with this. I'm not very skilled at template building myself, so aside from critiquing the resulting maps, I can't offer any suggestions.

YES, you know..., YES!!! I've been trying so hard to make it generate zones that are at least remotely close to the sizes I specify, but it just won't work. One of the zones (not the central one, but the left one) will always have such a high size and so much stuff in it that you wonder how this generator was written if it has such large variations... Although, of course, I might be blaming myself... but I've already tried a lot of different things, and the results are still far from what I expected, and for now, I'm just adjusting the rest.

As for M, I think we can try it. It will be interesting to see how it distributes the zones if we use M+U.

Regarding zone generation, here's a hypothesis:
The area of an L-shaped map is 108x108 = 11664 cells.
The areas of the zones on the template are: 31*31 + 33*33 + 32*32 + 34*34 + 15*15 + 4*4 + 7*7 + 5*5 + 6*6 = 4581 cells.
RMG simply starts adding zones until the required area is reached, sometimes crudely, at the expense of one zone. This is where the imbalances come from. The sum of the areas of the zones should be approximately equal to the area of the map.

The idea of a template for a blitz game is good, and I like it, but others... it's unknown. Maybe we should add a poll: would you like to play on a template with a contact on the first week?

Regarding the road to the secondary resource through a small treasure - there is a very high probability that the guard of some object in the treasure will simply block such a road. IMHO, the treasure should be large or not exist at all.

Regarding zone generation, here's a hypothesis:
The area of an L-shaped map is 108x108 = 11664 cells.
The areas of the zones on the template are: 31*31 + 33*33 + 32*32 + 34*34 + 15*15 + 4*4 + 7*7 + 5*5 + 6*6 = 4581 cells.
The RMG simply starts adding zones until the required area is reached, sometimes crudely, at the expense of one zone. This is where the imbalances come from. The sum of the areas of the zones should be approximately equal to the area of the map.

Not quite. The generator initially plans the zones as circles with a specified radius, and then, if they intersect, it somehow trims them. This is clearly visible, for example, in the Dungeon maps.

Therefore, yes, when developing a template, it is necessary to select the optimal size of the zones - on the one hand, so that they are not too crowded, and on the other hand, so that there are no large dark spots in the underground or sharp imbalances in the sizes of the zones.

IMHO, the zone is drawn like a snake growing from the center of the zone, one cell at a time, in a circle. When it encounters a neighboring zone, it starts to grow in length, catching up to the required area. If all zones are drawn on the surface and free space remains, the random map generator (RMG) adds the nearest zones. This effect does not exist for underground zones.

How about this template for a blitz game?
Hot Dog

Recommended size: XL - U
On the starting maps, there is a secondary town, meaning you can start playing with a double build almost immediately. The contents are the same as on the starting maps.

Contents of the middle zones 3-4-5:
Pandora's Boxes with 5000 experience/gold, or all spells from the 2nd level, or creatures from levels 1-3 (80 skeletons, 50 wolves, 20 elves)
Caches of levels 3-7 (with levels 5-7 being more common)
and also Hives and, less often, canned resources
given the starting conditions, you should try to take them in the first week.

The upper and lower zones 6-8-10 and 7-9-11 have the same contents as the treasures on the starting map.

The template itself looks like a single road with 8 intersections between opponents, with guards moving from respawn point to respawn point, each with 6000 hit points (like on the starting map).
It provides a fairly balanced experience, and the idea is that players constantly have a choice: attack the opponent now or wait a bit longer.
The encounters in the center are approximately: 115-123.

The .rmg and .tpz files are in one archive: