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Posts from The 4th annual offline tournament, "Best of the best".
offtopic: as an idea for a new tournament – maybe we could create an offline tournament that is as close as possible to the online format? Something like – banning the use of editors, giving 10 attempts to complete it, no long waits for luck and morale, a well-chosen random map, something else… The goal is to attract a group of online players who would benefit from learning the theory of the game, and to bring together offline and online players, because offline and online are two sides of the same Game – theory and practice… Based on this goal, build the concept of such a future tournament. Well, this is just an idea – maybe it will be useful to someone from the organizers of offline tournaments…
There was one a long time ago… back in the early days of HW… Knights of Honor A very instructive tournament in terms of Trust.
As they say, We gentlemen believe each other at our word.
So, we put on a hat, get in a boat, sail, and take off the hat before landing?
No. During boarding/disembarking, boots and gloves must be removed! SergeyY
Therefore, the question is - can we use that patch?
No. In joint tournaments, we play WITHOUT the patch!
SergeyY
16 years ago
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Dirty_Player
Okay, let's say I play a battle exceptionally well, and I have a detailed description, but the judge can't use that description to replicate my battle due to morale factors. Let's assume the judge is weaker in battles. If one person is weaker than the other, they might not only lose 20 battles, but 100, and suffer more troop losses! Why should I be blamed if they play worse? So, when I play my battles at the highest level, I also have to worry about whether the judge can play as well? Does this mean I need to hold back and not play at my full potential?
Okay, let's say I play a battle REALLY well, and I have a description, but the judge CAN'T use that description to replicate my battle because of moral reasons. Let's assume the judge is weaker in battles. If one person is weaker than the other, they might not only lose 20 battles, they could play 100 battles and still have more troop losses! So, if they play worse, what am I to blame for? Does that mean I need to play my battles at the highest level, but also worry about whether the judge can play as well? In other words, do I need to play at less than my full potential?
You don't need to worry about that. The judges in this tournament are very qualified. There haven't been any battles that they haven't been able to replicate. Moreover, it's not even necessary to replicate. It's possible to realistically assess the possibility of replication, and there are no problems with that. Play at your full strength without hesitation :)
RAPER
16 years ago
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The judges of this tournament are very qualified.
Yes, I think the participants will be qualified too... like Vampire, brother Lich... and Ghost xD ;)
P.S.: I want a blitz tournament!!! Dirty_Player, organize something like that!! ='(((
P.S.: I want a blitz tournament!!! Dirty_Player, organize something like that!! ='(((
Times have changed... As proven by Kolbazzer. Although I believe in the idea... But I'm afraid to take on such a project.
SergeyY
16 years ago
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So, why can't we use a patch? I'm interested in the reasons. The probability of morale appearing isn't higher there. In fact, it seems they even wrote that it's lower. So, in principle, it's the same game, or does it differ in some way?
Added after 3 minutes
And can we use the "hero digger" and "ballista killer" strategies?
But why can't we use a patch? I'm interested in the reasons. The probability of morale appearing isn't higher there. In fact, it seems like they even wrote that it's lower. So, in principle, it's the same game. Or is it different in some way?
Because the conditions won't be equal for the players. Having different versions will complicate things for the organizers. We don't need that.
SergeyY
Can we use the "Hero Cop" and "Ballista Killer" strategies?
1. Yes 2. No (Especially since there are no battles on the map where it could even be of any help).
I don't understand the map... How am I supposed to complete it?
Salty Water hid so well that he doesn't even know where he is:D (J.F. Cooper)
Added 10 minutes later Dirty_Player
No. Boots and gloves must be removed during boarding/disembarking!
Oops! I'm completely confused. Or was that sarcasm? It wasn't such a stupid question. If you can use the Admiral's Hat, but according to the HW rules, it was forbidden "
1.4.12. Using the assembled artifact "Admiral's Hat" (it can be used in disassembled form)
", please explain how exactly it can be used. If I can roughly calculate what bonus it gives on land, am I allowed to use these moves? Maybe only ten moves won't be enough to complete the turn?
Boots and gloves must be removed during boarding/disembarking!
SergeyY
16 years ago
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Because the conditions will not be equal for the players. The variety of versions will complicate things for the organizers. We don't need that.
The point is that "what might happen in a game with a patch – the SAME thing can happen with some probability in the regular version 3.2." Or am I wrong? If I'm right, how will you prove that my description of the battle couldn't have happened if I played without the patch? I'll say – I replayed the battle 100 times, but I waited for exactly that result. I'm not looking for 7 morale boosts in a row – that's silly, but I'm looking for it to unfold exactly as it does in the patch. Since the probabilities are the same with it, I don't understand why it's considered that it makes things easier or harder.
PS. You can't do that – I won't play with the patch. I'm just interested in why there's such a ban.
The point is that "what might happen when playing with a patch – the SAME thing can happen with some probability even in the regular version 3.2." Or am I wrong?
You are right, but not 100%. Theoretically, playing with a patch is a specific case of what can happen without a patch. However, a player might gain an advantage in a specific battle by playing WITH a patch, and in another battle, by playing WITHOUT a patch. In this case, it's individual, and to avoid any issues, we simply put everyone in the same conditions. The most important thing is to have concrete and uniform standards for everyone, and why a particular item is included in the rules is already the tenth question.
Catch
16 years ago
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Regarding the patch. A simple example. We attack neutral creatures that have higher speed than ours. They go first. With the patch, they simply move; without the patch, they gain morale and destroy our stack. This is an objective difference that cannot be eliminated, even with a million attempts.
The "ballista killer" strategy exploits a bug with infinite ballista shots. That's why it's banned on HP.
Regarding online and offline players. It's like comparing who is stronger, a whale or an elephant. There are many versatile players, like Dust and Deep Mike. There are strong players in online, but they either don't play offline or are weak in it. And vice versa. It all depends on the player, what they strive for, and what they want to play. I agree that when playing offline, knowledge of the game mechanics grows faster.
P.S. Kostya, why aren't you green? You've hosted several tournaments, and you still haven't been colored.
SergeyY
16 years ago
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Is there a program that shows, before a turn, when a unit's morale is about to trigger? I haven't seen such a program myself, but I've read that it exists.
Ivanhoj
16 years ago
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SergeyY
I'm still a little confused about something – what's the deal with the Admiral's Hat? What's allowed and what isn't, according to the rules? I'd like more details.
This restriction applies to the following situations:
-- Escaping from the sea and subsequently moving with the redeemed hero, using navigation bonuses on land. This includes the following cases: 1. Using the "Admiral's Hat" artifact or its components; 2. The hero having the "Navigation" skill at any level; 3. Having (building or taking control of) a Lighthouse(s). This restriction is related to the possibility – in the specified cases – of having an unreasonably increased movement range on land after escaping from the sea, gaining additional movement points "out of thin air." That's why this tactic is prohibited. P.S. Escaping from the sea and subsequently moving with the redeemed hero in the 3rd case is allowed if the construction or capture of the Lighthouse occurs on the day of the escape.
-- Using the "Admiral's Hat" artifact, which is prohibited in the following way: repeatedly boarding a boat and disembarking from it in approximately the same location. The use of this artifact is permitted if the main goal is to cross a body of water, which is necessary for the player to perform specific actions. When boarding and disembarking, any artifacts the hero has that increase his movement range on land (Boots of Swiftness and Rider's Gloves) must be in the hero's backpack. Boarding and disembarking at any point on the same land area (with the exception of a point that cannot be reached on land, either at all or without using the "Fly" or "Dimension Door" spells) does not constitute crossing a body of water. Boarding and disembarking on the same land area without crossing a body of water for the purpose of visiting objects (collecting artifacts/resources or attacking monsters/heroes) on the sea is allowed once per day. This restriction is related to the possibility – when manipulating artifacts that increase the hero's movement range on land and the "Admiral's Hat" artifact – of significantly increasing the movement range by repeatedly boarding and disembarking from a boat, gaining additional movement points "out of thin air." That's why this tactic is prohibited.
