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Offline КостяN
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#1326
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Personally, I would have done the same – if my combat unit had resistance in the first round, I would have let my opponent do that. I don't see any reason to complain:confused:.
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Alex_R
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#1327
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Wlk777
Personally, I don't think such spells exist.
Ignorance of the theory (technical details) does not absolve one of responsibility :D
In general, I expressed my opinion regarding the specific situation, but I believe it is necessary to make adjustments to the rules.

Added 2 minutes later
KostyaN
Personally, I would run away myself and let my opponent do the same.
This sounds the same as... I take a car and let my opponent take a car.
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Offline КостяN
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#1328
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Alex_R

That sounds like... I take a car and give it to my opponent.

Well, that was a good one:smile54:! I guess I'll go change my signature:o...

P.S. Actually, it reminds me of the saying, "There's elderberry in the garden, but an uncle in Kyiv."
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline Дубровин Павел
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#1329
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What I want to say.

It's not a pleasant situation that when changes to the Rules are put to a vote, very few Heroes players participate, which prevents them from being implemented (in the event of a positive vote for the changes).
A similar issue has arisen regarding the quorum of Heroes players needed to change the Rules.

As for the current debate, I don't think I'll be judged if I adjust this section of the Rules to ensure a uniform interpretation, as follows:

5.6. Hit-and-run is prohibited: an attacking hero is not allowed to retreat in the first round of battle if they have used any magic. This prohibition does not apply to a hero who is defending.


I want to make these changes to the Rules in a couple of days, unless, I repeat, there are Heroes players who object to the proposed changes.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
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Offline Wlk777
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#1330
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Dubrovin Pavel


5.6. Hit-and-run is prohibited: the attacking hero is not allowed to retreat in the first round of battle if they have used any magic. This prohibition does not apply to the hero who is defending.

I am against this option. I would suggest something like
5.6. Hit-and-run is prohibited: the attacking hero is not allowed to retreat in the first round of battle if they have used any magic, directly or indirectly causing damage to the opponent's army. This prohibition does not apply to the hero who is defending.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Alex_R
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#1331
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Wlk777
if he used any magic that directly or indirectly caused damage to the opponent's army
which spells are considered to inflict indirect damage?
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Offline Hermit
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#1332
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Alex_R
Which spells are considered to inflict indirect damage?
In my opinion, these are probably spells like Wall of Fire, Fire Shield, or some others. For example, the Slow spell with a casting skill of 1 and a mana cost of 5 doesn't directly inflict damage, but it can allow the attacker's ranged units to fire and then retreat (surrender) before they and the rest of the army are killed (in the first/second round).

Added after 1 hour 20 minutes
Here's an example: a hero with a Titan and a Gargoyle attacks a Barbarian with the Tactics skill. If the Titan simply attacks, the turn will pass to the Gargoyle, and the attacking hero will be killed – he needs to surrender immediately. But if he casts Haste on the Gargoyle, the turn will pass to it after the Titan attacks, and only then will he surrender. Thus, it turns out that Haste, although not a direct damage spell, does inflict indirect damage...
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
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Offline Erdem
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#1334
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Wlk777
5.6. Hit-and-run is prohibited: the attacking hero is not allowed to retreat in the first round of battle if they have used any magic that directly or indirectly caused damage to the opponent's army. This prohibition does not apply to the hero who is defending.
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In my opinion, this is too ambiguous. There can be an unlimited number of indirect options, and it's not clear how to accurately categorize spells into direct, indirect, and other types. For example, consider the first cast of Mass Shield/Stone Skin. The defending hero attacks, killing 30% fewer units than they should, and therefore receives more experience than they would without Mass Shield, or the same applies to Quicksand, etc. I prefer Pasha Dubrovin's more precise wording: if you cast any spell in the first round (regardless of whether the resistance worked or not), you must stay until the second round; if you want to retreat in the first round, do so with hit-and-run tactics using only units, without magic. :)
Человек человеку - друг!
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Offline Wlk777
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#1335
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Erdem
This is too ambiguous; there could be an unlimited number of indirect interpretations until spells are clearly divided into direct, indirect, and other types.
There's no need to separate anything; it's simple: if you inflict damage through magic that would have been less without magic, you are not allowed to retreat.
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline Alex_R
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#1336
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Erdem
Imo, a rather ambiguous interpretation.
+1
I suggest the following idea:
An attacking hero who used magic in the first round of battle is prohibited from retreating until the opponent's turn begins, and when using direct damage magic, retreating is prohibited in the first round.
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Offline AlexSpl
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#1338
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I agree with Alex R: even if there is resistance, damage is still dealt, but it equals zero. It just doesn't seem logical as damage. Although, I don't understand, if you cast an attack spell in the first round, did you not expect a hit chance? Then why run away after the resistance? ;)
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Offline Wlk777
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#1339
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AlexSpl
I agree with Alex R: in the case of resistance, damage is still dealt, but it equals zero.
Sorry, but I think this is nonsense:confused:
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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Offline AlexSpl
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#1340
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I'm sorry, but in my opinion, this is nonsense.
It depends on how you understand the term "damage"... If it refers to the result of an attack (casting a damaging spell, etc.), then it's not nonsense at all. In the case of resistance, the result is zero. Furthermore, you must consider that the opponent may have resistance, i.e., it's not a secret to you that the possible result of a spell cast is not the only one.
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Offline Wlk777
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#1341
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AlexSpl
Although, I don't understand, if you cast offensive magic in the first round, did you not expect a hit chance? Then why run away after the resistance? ;)
This is already an interesting question.

Added 2 minutes later
AlexSpl
It depends on how you understand the term "damage"... If it's the result of an attack (casting an offensive spell, etc.), then it's not nonsense at all. In the case of resistance, the result turns out to be zero.
I'm sending you 0 dollars, tell me your address :D
Всем удачи ! И Морали !
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