Post-match analysis. — Tournament History

RAPER

12/7/2009 1:36 PM UTC

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Since the swamp is my favorite town, I’ve played it more than others...
At first, when online play was just emerging on ХВ.. it was standard to only play Tanksaurus.. and no steps aside..
Then, with the arrival of outside players (such as Мизраэль, Форерст and Ко.), the tactics for playing the swamp changed completely..
Now I always start with Брон..васи.. that’s a solid boost to the army (except when he comes empty xD).. it lets you completely ignore ducks in the first few days.. Snakes on day 1 - 99% always (unless they come with heroes, of course).. 9th speed on horses is a huge advantage....
Lately, I’ve stopped needing upgraded shooters (something varies from game to game.. fewer and fewer of them show up..), and for the past six months I’ve been running single sometimes.. for some reason I started upgrading flies.. it somehow became easier to clear everything.. all the shooters - like children.. I don’t know..
I don’t know why, but I somehow don’t like putting hydras on 1st... idk.. *heal me*
xD

играю на уровне AI !!:smile32: ;)

Pradromalo

12/8/2009 7:51 AM UTC

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Thank you for your answers!

And what is the minimum native army for the Swamp faction needed to be able to capture the maximum-level Conservatory (5 stacks of 40 Griffons each) so that the exchange is equal (if possible, with a description of the battle turn by turn)?

In reply to Pradromalo

Dirty_Player

12/8/2009 9:12 AM UTC

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Pradromalo

Thank you for the answers!

And what is the minimum native army for the Swamp faction needed to be able to capture the maximum-level Conservatory (5 stacks of 40 Griffins each) so that the exchange is equal (if possible, with a description of the battle turn by turn)?

Here, it's not so much about the army itself, but rather about the hero's development. I posted a save file and a description from his actual game somewhere.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Pradromalo

12/8/2009 9:19 AM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Here, the focus will be less on building an army and more on leveling up the hero. I think I posted a save file and a description from his actual game somewhere.

Could you provide more details: what kind of leveling up is required, where is the save file, and what is the description?

In reply to Pradromalo

Wicc

12/8/2009 10:01 AM UTC

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Pradromalo

Thank you for the answers!

And what is the minimum native army for the Swamp faction needed to be able to capture the maximum-level Conservatory (5 stacks of 40 Griffons each) so that the exchange is equal (if possible, with a description of the battle turn by turn)?

Hydras in the castle with a full purchase + a well-leveled Titan (level 6-8 with experience armor), haste, and bless in the spellbook. The task is to gather 3 rightmost stacks into one pile and use the hydras with bless to attack them all at once, in the 2nd round, use haste and attack all three again; few will remain. The remaining army deals with the left flank.

All hydras and part of the vipers should survive, the rest is lost; 4 angels will more than compensate. Take only single units of flies, don't take bulls at all. It is desirable to upgrade lizards and gnolls to match the speed of the griffons.

Maybe not the minimum, but something like that.

All of the above is for a battle on swamp terrain.

In reply to Pradromalo

PReDS

12/8/2009 10:13 AM UTC

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Pradromalo

Thank you for the answers!

And what is the minimum native army for the Swamp faction to be able to capture the maximum-level Conservatory (5 stacks of 40 Griffins) so that the exchange is equal (if possible, with a description of the battle turn by turn)?

In a quick battle, which is not prohibited by the rules, a couple of Hydras and a couple of dozen Gnolls will do – it will work against a level 6-7 Thazar.

I lied, you need 3 of them. The Gnolls and 1 or 2 Hydras die. I don't know what it depends on.

In reply to PReDS

Wicc

12/8/2009 10:59 AM UTC

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I couldn't seem to break through on quick combat with acceptable losses. Please clarify the parameters, exact troop composition, and formation.

Here is an example of taking it manually. As for losses, only Basilisks were lost, and Gnolls and Lizards were slightly bruised. Level 10 Tower (SoD). Required 2 Haste and 2 Bless at SP=2. At SP=3, only 1 Haste and 1 Bless are needed; you can even cast something else in the 3rd round.

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In reply to Wicc

Pradromalo

12/8/2009 11:18 AM UTC

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Wicc

I somehow couldn't manage to break through on haste with acceptable losses. Please clarify the parameters, exact troop composition, and formation.

And here is an example of taking it manually. As for losses, only basilisks were lost and a few gnolls and lizards were bruised. Tier 10 town (SoD). Required 2 hastes and 2 blesses at SP=2. At SP=3, only 1 haste and 1 bless are needed; you could even cast something else in the 3rd round.

How did you pull the 3 right stacks into one pile?

In reply to Wicc

Wlk777

12/8/2009 11:27 AM UTC

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Wicc

I somehow couldn't manage to break through on quick with acceptable losses. Please clarify the parameters, exact troop composition, and deployment.

Here is an example of taking it manually. As for losses, only Basilisks were hit, and a few Gnolls and Lizards were bruised. Level 10 Town (SoD). Required 2 Hasts and 2 Blesses at SP=2. At SP=3, only 1 Hast and 1 Bless are needed; you could even cast something else in the 3rd round.

I would like more realistic examples, without 3 Hydras with bless and hast... Something like 40+ upgraded Lizards, 5 ducks, about 50 Gnolls, 10 Vasya, a few flies (possibly upgraded)—that's roughly what a real Swamp army looks like, for example, on SM at the start of the second, and Hydras in Castle are, to put it mildly, not that common :)

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Pradromalo

Wicc

12/8/2009 11:33 AM UTC

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Pradromalo

How did you manage to gather 3 right stacks into one?

Take a look at the screenshots. All 3 stacks attacked the Vasas, they moved away from the Wyverns, and Hydras took their place.

Perhaps there are more cunning options with 3 Flies; it needs to be tested.

Wlk777

I would like to see more realistic examples, without 3 Hydras with Bless and Haste... Something like 40+ gr. Lizards, 5 Ducks, about 50 Gnolls, 10 Vasas, single Flies (possibly upgraded) - this is approximately what a real Swamp army looks like, for example, on a Small Map in the early second week, and Hydras in the Castle are, to put it mildly, not that common :)

Well, with such garbage, you certainly can't win against a Consul-Maximus, unless there's an uber-hero with Earth Expertise and the necessary spells.

I don't know about the Small Map, but I recently played a few games in Light as Bron on 8MM6, and Hydras appeared in the Castle in about half of the cases. Moreover, I can't say that there was a lot of money; rather, there were a lot of chains that generated money everywhere possible.

In reply to Wicc

PReDS

12/8/2009 11:38 AM UTC

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Wicc

I couldn't manage to break through with acceptable losses on quick battles. Please clarify the parameters, the exact troop composition, and the deployment.
...

Here's an example:

, and it even includes the Grand Sorcerer. The save file is from Shades of Darkness.

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In reply to Wicc

Wlk777

12/8/2009 12:49 PM UTC

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Wicc

Take a look at the screenshots. All three stacks attacked the Vasas, and the Wyverns moved back, replaced by Hydras.

Perhaps there are more clever options with 3 Mutants; it needs to be tested.

Well, with such a weak setup, it's obviously impossible to win against Cons-Maxi, unless there's an incredibly strong hero with experience in Earth magic and the necessary spells.

I don't know about the Shadowmancer, but I recently played several games in Light as Bron, and Hydras appeared in the Castle in about half the cases. Moreover, I can't say that there was a lot of money; rather, there were a lot of chains that generated money everywhere possible.

The thing is, it's harder to place Hydras in the Castle and get Bless and Haste than to take Cons-Maxi later. I think that whoever has the skill to build such a great setup (Hydras in the Castle) will also be able to adapt in the Cons later.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

Wicc

12/8/2009 1:35 PM UTC

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Here's the idea:

1) If Hydras spawn in the Castle and there's somewhere to retreat to, it's a good spawn.
2) If Hydras don't spawn in the Castle, but there's something to compensate with (hiding spots, a nearby secondary resource) – it's a good spawn.
3) If Hydras don't spawn, there are few hiding spots or they are weak, but you can see several promising resource nodes that aren't too heavily guarded – it's a good spawn.
4) If none of the above conditions are met, consider restarting (especially if you haven't taken them yet).
5) Finding Earth with a Town Portal slightly increases the spawn rating.
6) The goal is to have enough power to take down a Tier 3 Utopia on turn 131-132 (for a 4-player map), and preferably on turn 125-126 (for a 5-player map). The rest are Tier 3 and 2 maps, and it's better to restart them.
7) If 50% or more of the generated maps meet the restart criteria, increase your skill. You don't take the Swamp faction to break resource nodes on turn 3, or Utopias on turn 4; that's the pace for Inferno.

Something like that...