The most useful monster. — General

Zybr

16 years ago

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The catapult has terrible speed and negligible damage. Accuracy cannot be increased, and it cannot be healed. In my opinion, it's the worst "monster" of level 4. It has minimal usefulness.

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CTPAHHuK

16 years ago

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Zybr

The catapult has terrible speed and minimal damage. Accuracy cannot be increased, and it cannot be healed. In my opinion, it's the worst "monster" of level 4. It has minimal usefulness.

The worst! Definitely!

Ethereal

16 years ago

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It's not always possible to reach them on the first turn, even with maximum Tactics. Still, I think the worst unit of level 4 is not Catapults, but Cavalry, but that's in terms of quality. In terms of efficiency for the army and overall development, Cavalry is definitely better! :D However, the benefits of magical units, Djinns, War Dragons, and Winged Lords, should not be underestimated. Sometimes they are more useful than a horde of Chaos Dragons, which is harder to obtain than to develop to the maximum in 8 castles!

Zybr

16 years ago

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Ultimately, I think the worst 4th-tier unit isn't the Catapult, but the Cavalry, although it's a matter of quality.

Cavalry, with proper support, can take down neutral creatures in no time. Just recently, in the 1/8 finals of the World Championship 09, I messed up because I had 3 Catapults in my army. First, they had a speed of 2(!), and second, they dealt an average of 70 damage. Meanwhile, 1 Cavalier can deal that much damage, if not more.
The fact that Catapults don't reach their target immediately doesn't really matter, because they can't do much anyway. Champions, on the other hand, can do something; they're not angels, of course, but they can clear out neutral creatures.

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CTPAHHuK

16 years ago

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Also, Champions have an unwritten resistance to the Hand of Death.

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oxygen_hl

16 years ago

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CTPAHHuK

Champions also have an unwritten resistance to the Hand of Death.

Are you referring to their numbers, or something else?

In reply to Zybr

Ethereal

16 years ago

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Zybr

With proper support, cavalry can quickly defeat neutral creatures. However, recently, in the 1/8 finals of the World Championship 09, I failed with 3 catapults in my army because, firstly, they had a speed of 2(!), and secondly, they dealt an average of 70 damage. At the same time, 1 cavalier can deal as much damage, if not more.
The fact that the catapults don't reach the enemy immediately doesn't really matter, because they can't do much anyway. But champions can, they're not angels, of course, but they can quite effectively clear out neutral creatures.

Well, I don't know, I once defeated 25 Champions with five catapults. True, there were 5 Vampire Lords. That was enough! The champions didn't even have time to attack. They got stuck in the sand and were finished! And the mage was quite good... :D

The area-of-effect attack has no penalty and no retaliation from other ranged units.

What is the argument about? Catapults are not produced in castles, and it is rare to find them. However, when you get them for free... even vinegar tastes sweet! :D Cyclops are regular units, and they deserve honor and glory, but the rest, while you're looking for them... the need for them will disappear.

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shnurov_hl

16 years ago

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Ethereal

What's the argument about? Catapults aren't produced in castles, and finding them is rare. However, when you get them for free... everything seems great!

The argument is about whether having a dwelling that produces catapults means you've lost half the game.

Zybr

16 years ago

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Well, I don't know, I once took out 25 Champions with a level 5 Catapult. True, they were Warlocks. 5 of them. That was enough! The Champions didn't even have time to attack. They got stuck in the sand and that was it! And the mage was decent...

Well, with quicksand and mass slow, and a handful of elves, you can easily win.

The area-of-effect attack deals damage without penalty and without retaliation from other archers.

Archers are always protected and rarely receive retaliation, unless someone attacks them. And the area-of-effect attack is not very useful with its minimal damage.

The debate about whether having a dwelling catapult means you've lost half the game.

+++

In reply to oxygen_hl

CTPAHHuK

16 years ago

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oxygen_hl

Are you referring to their numbers, or something else?

Yeah. It's one thing to remove 1150 health with Death Hand from Angels, and another to remove 750 from Champions. Sorceresses are also good in this regard, but you can't gather many of them, and Mirror Image can reflect the spell.

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Ethereal

16 years ago

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STRATEGIST

Yeah. It's one thing to remove 1150 health with Death Grip from Angels, and another to remove 750 from Champions. Sorceresses are also great in this regard, but you can't gather many of them, and the Mirror spell can backfire.

But Choke and Disorient will hit hard! :smile04: Still, Champions have too little health and their defense isn't impressive. Their movement range requires maxing out Tactics, because without it, they're not very useful. And in general, Champions are more like tier 3.5 than tier 4, and their growth reflects that. :D

Catapults are almost the same, but with ranged area-of-effect attacks and some immunity. Plus, they can reach closed-in enemy heroes, archers, and sorceresses protected by living shields. However, I agree that relying on them is suicide. Fast, flying melee units will tear them apart before they can realize their potential. Nevertheless, a Catapult on a castle tower is not to be trifled with. As a counter to spellcasting monsters, and even then, not against all of them. If it's a Warlock, they'll be taken down with lightning, but Sorceresses are left with only melee attacks. And that's all they're good for, due to their meager speed. Catapults definitely don't belong in the main army!

Zybr

16 years ago

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But Choke and Disorientation will hit hard!

And Life has an upgrade =P

The movement range requires maxing out Tactics.

This is required for everyone. You can't do without Tactics at all.

The increase is appropriate.

By the way, the increase is quite large... it's still better to have 3, but also slightly increase the parameters.

Plus, there is an opportunity to reach closed enemy heroes, archers, and sorcerers who are protected by living shields.

What's the point?:) So what if you reach them? You won't kill many. And no one will let you make 5-6 shots)

Nevertheless, the catapult on the castle tower is not funny at all.

I would be more afraid of monks, especially in terms of accuracy (+% to damage) and other nice things. Although the fact that they (catapults) cannot be disabled with confusion is definitely a plus for them. But there is always a trick up your sleeve for such cases:)

In reply to Ethereal

OptiMAL

16 years ago

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Ethereal

Actually, Champions are more like level 3.5 than 4.

Well, I wouldn't say that... With a well-developed tactic, Champions with attack/defense stats of 40+ and a significant number (twice as many as Angels) can inflict quite a bit of damage.

Ethereal

16 years ago

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But the Angels themselves, with the same stats and tactics... An Angel initially has higher stats, and they receive a greater bonus from tactics.

Although, they have a cavalry bonus... but the attack itself will be smaller. Only First Strike keeps the Cavalry in formation. :)