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Posts from "The Art of Strategy"

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Offline raykkonen
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Posts: 82
#128
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I 100% support Kill! What kind of RTA (Real-Time Arena) can there be? It's a completely different game! For example, I'm very weak in tactics, and RTA is pure suicide against those who are good at tactics! Judges, think before making a decision about RTA.
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Offline Alex_R
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Posts: 1,766
#129
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I agree with Killa and other participants regarding the absurdity and inappropriateness of RTA for resolving point equality issues, but unfortunately, I don't see any more suitable solutions, except perhaps introducing a (Berger coefficient) and calculating the rankings based on it.
P.S. By the way, since this point wasn't clearly defined from the beginning, I believe it should be resolved directly when it arises; otherwise, it just creates unnecessary tension.
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Offline oxygen_hl
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Posts: 532
#130
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Alex_R
perhaps introduce the Buchholz coefficient... and use it to determine rankings.
Buchholz coefficient is the same for everyone in a round-robin system ;)
If you really want to introduce one, then use the Berger coefficient.
However, there is a chance that it will also coincide.
Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.
© О. Хайям
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Offline ekzekut
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Posts: 183
#131
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I tried playing in the arena, and it's tough to get used to this kind of combat; I need to practice. Also, there's a strong dependence on spells and runes in the castle.
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Offline Alex_R
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Posts: 1,766
#132
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oxygen_hl
Buchholz coefficient in a round-robin tournament is the same for everyone ;)
Even taking into account that someone played and someone else received technical points? ;)
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Offline oxygen_hl
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Posts: 532
#133
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Alex_R
Even considering that some players played games, while others just received technical points? ;)
What's the difference? Is the Buchholz system only meant to calculate the number of games actually played? This can be done without any formulas.

The point of the coefficient is to determine the total strength of the opponents (Buchholz, and therefore it's equal, as it's a round-robin) or the total quality of the result (Berger). However, this very point will not work if an inappropriate coefficient is applied in a particular system. It is not designed to count the number of actual games.
Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.
© О. Хайям
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Offline alex_nv
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Posts: 544
#134
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I'll add my two cents :)
KillAndAction
Why is it impossible? We already have it:
Both I and Bolivar have the same number of points.

And about the circular situation: of course, it won't happen...
Why won't it happen? It's possible... (see below)
Gаstello
The opinion of an unbiased person:cool: RTA in a strategic tournament is not a serious solution; a better option would be to play a mid-range random map on templates or a balanced standard map, like Valley or Key. The balance is, of course, for rush strategies, but here, Cherk will help us.
How is that unbiased? If you win the last game against Hero_of_heroes, and Kila loses to him in the last game, then you, Kila, and Bolivar will each have 3 points, and that will create a circular situation :)
oxygen_hl
If we're going to introduce it, then the Berger coefficient. However, there's a chance that it will coincide as well.
I agree that this could help!
" Дурак учится на своих ошибках, умный - на чужих, а мудрый старается их не совершать!
Пусть будет больше мудрецов и жить станет легче!!! "

Клан "ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Должность/Рейтинг: Мастер меча и магии/Арбалетчик
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Offline Adv
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Posts: 175
#135
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Why not introduce a coefficient K that depends on the game time in Heroes?
The maximum time set by the tournament regulations is 347 (3 months, 4 weeks, 7 days).
Let's say Player 1 defeated Player 2 in 134.
And calculate it like this:
K = 347/134 = 2.59, i.e., Player 1 receives 2.59 points, Player 2 receives 0.00.
In the case of a technical victory, for example, the time should be considered as the maximum...
K = 347/347 = 1
Thus, the player who defeats their opponents faster will have the highest total coefficient...
What do you think of this suggestion? It won't be necessary to spend time on additional games...

Although many may not agree, because if they knew this in advance, they would try to defeat their opponent faster... but not always will the opponent allow this... :)

P.S. Maybe I'm reinventing the wheel, correct me if I'm wrong... :confused:
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
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Offline Alex_R
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Posts: 1,766
#136
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Adv
Correct me if I'm wrong...:confused:
This is worse than the Berger coefficient, but perhaps better than RTA :)
Why?
Because such a system forces you not to give up even when losing, and also encourages fighting to the last hero, who, with a bit of luck, can escape and hold out for the coveted 7 days after losing the capital. And also, if you lose a castle and realize that the main battle will be a loss, you can embark on a hopeless (in terms of winning the game) journey, but with the intention of bringing the coefficient as close to one as possible, especially if you have logistics and your opponent doesn't. And I won't even talk about other tricks.
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Offline Adv
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Posts: 175
#137
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Alex_R
This is worse than the Berger coefficient, but perhaps better than RTA :)
Why?
Because such a system forces you not to give up even when losing, and also encourages fighting to the last hero, who, with a bit of luck, can escape and hold out for the coveted 7 days after losing the capital. And if you lose a castle and realize that the main battle will be a loss, you can embark on a hopeless (from the point of view of winning the game) journey, but with the intention of bringing the coefficient as close to one as possible, especially if you have logistics and your opponent doesn't. And I won't even talk about other tricks.

I think such behavior from a losing player is pointless, especially since they will still receive 0.00 for the loss, so what's the point of torturing themselves and the opponent? :)
If such behavior does occur, I don't think it will bring the player any honor... :smile17:
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
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Offline Alex_R
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Posts: 1,766
#138
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Whether it's a matter of honor or torment is a separate issue, but there's no need to provoke it unnecessarily... the pointlessness of such an action is still 0.00... read my post again...
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Offline Adv
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Posts: 175
#140
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Alex_R
This is worse than the Berger coefficient, but perhaps better than RTA :)
I think if the judges had used the Berger coefficient, it would have been good; and in case of a tie in points according to it, something else could have been applied... but definitely not RTA IMHO.
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
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Offline Leolopus
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Posts: 523
#142
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I would like to hear what those who might be directly affected by the Berger coefficient think about it?
"Шанс есть всегда, но не везде." ;)
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Offline KillAndAction
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Posts: 2,464
#143
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:eek:

I don't quite understand how to apply this coefficient in this case: as far as I understand, it makes sense if there are draws between players in addition to wins (the Berger coefficient of a particular participant is calculated as the sum of all the points of opponents against whom the participant won, plus half the sum of the points of opponents with whom the participant drew).

Therefore, in our case, the specified coefficient loses its meaning...
Будьте осторожны со своими желаниями. Иногда они исполняются.
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Offline immortal
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Posts: 187
#144
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Why not – simply without draws, we add up the total points of all defeated players, and we get our coefficient – whoever has the higher coefficient is the winner...
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