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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

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In reply to Yakudza
Offline Тяжелый случай
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#526
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A question has arisen regarding "red rush."
Let's imagine a situation: Red, with 127 units, positions itself in front of the Guardian. On turn 131, with a new growth, it breaks the Guardian (let's assume that without the growth, the Guardian cannot be defeated). Then, it detaches a portion of its units as a scout and, with the remaining troops, occupies the opponent's castle, thereby winning the game. Is this a "red rush"?
And the second situation: Red, with 127 units, positions itself in front of the Guardian. On turn 131, with a new growth, it breaks the Guardian (let's assume that the Guardian kills our units, exactly the amount of the growth). Then, Red occupies the opponent's castle, thereby winning the game. Is this a "red rush"?
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Offline vbn
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#527
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A difficult case
A question has arisen regarding rush strategies.
Let's imagine a situation: Red, with 127 units, positions itself in front of the Guardian. On turn 131, with a new unit increase, it breaks through the Guardian (let's assume that without the increase, the Guardian cannot be defeated). Then, it detaches a portion of the new units and, with the remaining troops, occupies the opponent's castle, thereby winning the game. Is this a rush strategy?
And a second situation: Red, with 127 units, positions itself in front of the Guardian. On turn 131, with a new unit increase, it breaks through the Guardian (let's assume that the Guardian kills our units, exactly the number of the new increase). Then, Red occupies the opponent's castle, thereby winning the game. Is this a rush strategy?))
It's difficult to say exactly which units are lost when breaking through the Guardian, whether they are previously purchased or from the new increase... :D
According to the current rules, which in this case should be interpreted in favor of the red player, both of the described situations are not rush strategies.
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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Offline Wicc
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#528
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To avoid such situations, it makes sense for the blue player to occupy the castle at 127 with all their troops.
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Offline PReDS
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#529
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Wicc
To avoid such situations, Blue should position itself on tile 127 and attack the Castle with its entire army.
Besides, Red risks not reaching the Castle through unexplored territory and simply getting hit by a hit-and-run attack, and then by Blue's army, whose hero hasn't spent mana on fighting the Guardian.
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Offline Javdet
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#530
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Hmm... when we were playing with Forrest, he settled in the capital on day 126, saying in ICQ that it was "lessons" from Stinger:). So, should we sit there for 2 days?
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Alex_R
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#531
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Javdet
Hmm... when we were playing with Forrest, he settled on level 126 in the capital, saying in ICQ that it was "lessons" from Stinger. So, should we sit there for 2 days?
No, it's so that he himself can break through the Guardian and the castle on level 127, or catch the red boss on the run. And if nothing like that is expected on level 127, then we run to the Treasury. In any case, you can benefit (visit the shrines, upgrade your bag, stand near the stable, visit the upgrade locations, or repel something strong near the capital, something that didn't work out on levels 112-113).
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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#532
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if you play against Alex, you usually run out of places to settle around turn 127 :)))

(inspired by a game with OELM)
I suggest adding a mandatory restart for Jebus on a single-road map.
Description: A winding map with a single road to the Guardian Orb is generated, and to reach the secondary resource (imagine if it's a native resource...), you need to conquer at least 2 Guardian Orbs, or even more. Going around takes a lot of time, and often there aren't enough weeks. http://slil.ru/28039042
Justification: Jebus is a very fast map, and the lack of direct connections to secondary resources (i.e., roads) significantly weakens the position. It's no secret that collecting resources along roads is faster and more efficient. Out of approximately one hundred games, only 2-3 such maps are generated, which again confirms my theory about the map being buggy.
------
Those who care, speak up, don't be shy :))
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Offline vbn
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#533
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I believe it is necessary to elaborate on rule number 6, "Fair Play," in more detail.
The most important rule: players must play fairly and respect each other. It is forbidden to use cheat codes and all kinds of "bugs." It is also forbidden to open save files or reveal the map in the editor before the end of the game. The game is considered finished when one player has completely destroyed the other, or one of them has surrendered, which must be confirmed via ICQ. Only after this is it allowed to open save files.
Now it will look like this.
The most important rule: players must play fairly and respect each other. Before the end of the game, it is forbidden to:
- use cheat codes and all kinds of "bugs";
- open save files;
- open the map in the map editor (h3maped.exe);
- use any programs, tools, or information that can provide information directly related to the current game, which cannot be obtained without using these and similar programs and tools (such information includes, for example, information about the contents of objects - chests, utopias, etc.; about the hero's skill tree, etc.).
- only reference programs and information that provide only general theoretical material are allowed (such as FizMiG, AboutHeroes, etc.).
We are waiting for suggestions, wishes, and objections...
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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Offline КостяN
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Posts: 1,150
#534
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What does "all sorts of bugs" mean???:confused: There will be a huge number of different interpretations!..

For some, blocking the gate during an assault with a single unit's corpse is a bug, while for others, a misplaced guard is tolerable...
Ибу ибуди - хуйдао муди - Шаг за шагом можно достигнуть цели (китайская мудрость)

Кто к нам с пером придёт, тот от пера и погибнет!:smile51:
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Offline vbn
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#535
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Regarding all sorts of bugs – it was the same then, and it remains the same now... In this case, that wasn't what was suggested for discussion. And regarding the idea of approving a list of bugs – that would be good – but that's already a different aspect of the topic...
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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In reply to Yakudza
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Offline Loi
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Posts: 1,083
#536
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We are waiting for suggestions, wishes, and objections...
Suggestion: It's clear that "everything is allowed that isn't forbidden," but: Nevertheless, perhaps it would be worth explicitly stating whether players are allowed to view castles (in the rules explanation, perhaps in a spoiler)?
Стратегия - искусство возможного.

Первое правило форума :
"Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно
И не оспаривай глупца" (с)

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Offline numOne
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Posts: 1,279
#537
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With all due respect to vbn, I believe that we shouldn't change a rule that is already working perfectly well. The new version actually introduces ambiguities and omissions because it's impossible to prove the use of certain bugs and intentional rule violations. "Players must play fairly and respect each other" – that's more than enough. Everyone already understands the meaning of "fair play," and various minor bugs, such as viewing an opponent's castle, can't really be called bugs, and besides, both players can use them. I personally explained this feature to myself by saying that you can only view the second, third, etc., castles of an opponent if you have the corresponding cities yourself, as if a bartender whispered it to you. It's also logical – the more cities you have, the more loyal subjects you have, and the more rumors circulate, and the news about a flock of ducks or a hundred skeletons settling in for the night quickly spreads around the area.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline vbn
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#538
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Once, when the rules were still being formed, I myself didn't use the "view" function for opponents' castles, and only after talking with several players did I realize that they were using it, and that it was supposedly "allowed." I didn't argue – after all, it's a bug (most likely, just a bug) that can be tracked. And I started using it too. But! In this case, there was absolutely no intention to prohibit viewing castles. We can even add this point to the rules, as suggested by loi, so that there are no misunderstandings. The proposed change does not affect or imply "viewing castles" in any way. Where did you see a hint of this? If in the first part of the rule, "all sorts of 'bugs'," this expression has been in the rules and remains there. If you want to change it, please do. But in this case, we are talking about something else, namely: what new thing is being proposed? Here it is:
... it is forbidden:
- to use any programs, tools, or information that can provide information directly related to the current game, which cannot be obtained without using these programs and tools (such information includes, for example, information about the contents of objects - chests, utopias, etc.; about the hero's skill tree, etc.).
This point was proposed not just like that, because there are reasons to believe that some players may consider the use of such programs to be normal, not seeing their actions as a violation, at the very least thinking "to themselves" that if it is not prohibited, it is allowed, without suspecting, vaguely feeling, or perfectly aware that they are violating the rules. So, no, it is not allowed! And now it is officially known. Those who used it will perfectly understand this point of the rules. And those who didn't, don't need to, and they have nothing to worry about.
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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Offline numOne
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Posts: 1,279
#539
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Okay. I just wasn't aware of the existence of such programs, and if they allow all of this, then using them is essentially the same as viewing a map in an editor. People who use them are no different from regular maphackers; it's naive to deny that. These people won't stop cheating after this sub-item appears in the rules, but new people who didn't even know about the existence of these programs might appear, at least out of curiosity.
In general, I still believe that the old interpretation is perfectly sound and doesn't need to be revised. IMHO, of course.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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Offline vbn
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#540
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numOne
These people won't stop cheating after this sub-item appears in the rules; however, new players who didn't even know about the existence of these programs might appear, at least out of curiosity.
Or maybe such programs don't exist; I'm not claiming they do, I just wanted to consider this possibility... Maybe it really shouldn't be mentioned... What do you think?
Клан Homo homini

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
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