Skills in the game — Tactics

Dirty_Player

8/30/2009 2:08 PM UTC

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Wlk777

Which Valeska are you referring to? Don't get confused. We're talking about the situation when Sorcha arrives with 10 marksmen, meaning 14 in the castle + 10 + 10-20 with the second hero, totaling 34-44.

That's right. Notice that my calculations are for 40 units. You said:

Wlk777

and if 10 units arrive, will we fight with 24 units?

That's what I'm saying, 24 is usually what Valeska has at the start (second hero + growth).

Wlk777

It doesn't always survive well, and only thanks to mages.

Do you think so? And why do many prefer to start with Moner? Conflict survives well with melee troops and max-creep without magic; for me, a Conflict on level 111 is normal. I just don't understand why there's a stereotype that you can only play with archers? :confused: When there are many of them, of course, it's great! A smart and strong player once told me:

Everyone knows how to shoot with archers; try controlling melee troops.

Gomunguls

and if you attack with about 50 demons, that's it... you can make soap from swordsmen...

So, you think Valeska with 13 marksmen can defeat 50 demons? :D
In general, it seems you didn't understand my position. I'm not saying that this is the best option; I'm stating that it's simply playable.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Wlk777

8/30/2009 3:10 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

That's right. Notice that my calculations are for 40 creatures. You said:

That's why I'm saying that 24 is usually what Valeska starts with (second hero + growth).

According to your logic, Valeska's second hero must always come with 10 creatures – that's strange. And those extra 10 creatures from the second starting hero bring the total number of creatures from 24 to 50+ :D

Dirty_Player

I just don't understand why the stereotype arose that you can only play with archers? :confused:

For Castle, it's not a stereotype, but simply the most effective and convenient tactic.

Dirty_Player

So, you think that Valeska with 13 marksmen can defeat 50 demons? :D

In reality, Valeska with 13 marksmen and 24 creatures will defeat far more demons than, for example, Sorceress with 34 creatures and 4 swordsmen. Do you have any doubts? ;)

Dirty_Player

In general, it seems you didn't understand my position. I'm not insisting that this is the best option; I'm stating that it's simply playable.

You also didn't understand – a build without archers is risky, tedious, and ineffective.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

Gomunguls

8/30/2009 3:10 PM UTC

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So, you think that Valeska with 13 marksmen can defeat 50 demons? (c) Dirty_Player Firstly, what 13 marksmen are you talking about? I always get at least 13 with Valeska + 5-7 with the second hero + 9 in the city, which means there are always 25 or more in the army... sometimes there are even 2 natives, and if there are 30-35, I can easily defeat 50 demons in the first week... What is all this pointless chatter? What's the point of reinventing the wheel and thinking about how these 2 horses, swordsmen, and meat will survive?

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

In reply to Wlk777

Dirty_Player

8/30/2009 3:22 PM UTC

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Wlk777

For some reason, according to your logic, Valeska should always start with 10 units – it seems strange. And adding 10 more units to the second starting hero increases the number of units from 24 to 50+ :D

Okay, calculating the exact number of pikemen isn't a problem for anyone.

Wlk777

In reality, Valeska with 13 marks and 24 units will defeat far more demons than, for example, Sorcha with 34 units and 4 swordsmen. Do you have any doubts? ;)

No.

Wlk777

You also didn't understand – the option without archers is risky, tedious, and not very effective.

Ask Mizrael why he starts as Caitlin and how he deals with the guards if there are no archers.

Gomunguls

I always get at least 13 units with Valeska.

Just restart the game several times and collect some statistics.
Nothing scares you about starting as Dess in Stronghold. It will be much harder to manage with only goblins than with pikemen. Does that make sense?

In reply to Dirty_Player

Gomunguls

8/30/2009 3:33 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Well, just restart the game a few times and collect some statistics.
There's nothing to be afraid of about starting with Stronghold and choosing Dess. It's actually easier than starting with just goblins. Logically, right?

You're getting off-topic... Besides, I always get archers in Stronghold:D... about 13 (or even more) orcs will join... of course, there's a lower chance of getting good archers, and if they don't join, I'll have to run with 7... but their attack power is decent...

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

In reply to Dirty_Player

Wlk777

8/30/2009 3:35 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Ask Mizrael why he starts with Kaitlin and how he breaks through the guards if there are no archers.

There are always some archers for Castle, even without Valeska, and usually 15-20 are recruited without hiding, otherwise breaking through many guards is a feat on the verge of defeat.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Gomunguls

Dirty_Player

8/30/2009 4:17 PM UTC

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Gomunguls

You're getting off-topic... Besides, I always get archers in Stronghold:D... about 13 (or even more) orcs will gather.

With such luck, besides Valeska, I wouldn't consider anyone else:D

Wlk777

There are always some archers for Castle, even without Valeska, and usually 15-20 gather without ambushes, without them, breaking through many guards is a feat on the verge of defeat.

For some, it's on the verge of defeat, but others feel confident.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Wlk777

8/30/2009 4:28 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Some are on the verge of losing, while others feel confident.

This kind of confidence usually leads to losses :D

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Wlk777

Forrest

8/30/2009 4:30 PM UTC

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The fact that the idea of a "non-Valeska" starting hero for Castle has merit is evidenced by at least one thing: in the Chaos league, almost everyone started with Caitlyn. When many Chaos players switched to the 160% rules, they continued to do so, and with great success. Lord Dim, for example.
Stinger even started with Edrick at one point and dominated.
So, diversifying the Castle starting hero is, in my opinion, a useful initiative for overall development.

РП (Реальное папство!)
*Автосейвы не беру и не даю.

Скачать WT (Чат, античит, одновременный ход) http://www.heroeswt.net/download.php

Награда Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за Оплот

In reply to Forrest

Wlk777

8/30/2009 4:34 PM UTC

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Forrest

The fact that the idea of a "non-Valeska" hero for the Castle has merit is evidenced by the fact that in the Chaos League, almost everyone started with Caitlin. When many Chaos players switched to the 160% rules, they continued to do so, and with excellent results.

Just don't tell me they played without Marks; I'll never believe it.

Всем удачи ! И Морали !

In reply to Wlk777

Dirty_Player

8/30/2009 4:41 PM UTC

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Wlk777

Such confidence usually leads to losses :D

Do you often see replays of Mizrael where he loses? :confused:

In reply to Dirty_Player

Kash

8/30/2009 4:46 PM UTC

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Guys, doesn't the topic title and attached poll bother you? :D
Regarding the main point (sort of):
I've never tried starting a game with anyone other than Valkyrie (only because of the bows, otherwise she's useless). But I respect those who start with Katherine, Tiris, or, say, Guney as Dungeon, and I read their reports more carefully.
I don't understand what the argument is about.
It's obvious that Vale is easier to start with. Edric is more interesting. :)

P.S. My vote is for the water option; it's getting boring here.

In reply to Forrest

Lider1

8/30/2009 4:57 PM UTC

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Forrest

Stinger used to start with Edrick and dominate.

You probably forgot to mention that it was in TEfул :D

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

Avern

8/30/2009 5:07 PM UTC

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The topic title guides us, and the attached poll extraordinarily stimulates creative thought :D According to statistics: Castle + Valeska is the most popular option, and also the saddest in terms of results. 127 wins out of 338 games for Valeska, which is less than 40%. This is especially sad compared to Kairn and Tazar, who have a success rate of about 60%. In my opinion, the root of the problem lies in the fact that Valeska, who is excellent in the first week, is no longer as good by the time you need to take tier 3 creatures or face an opponent. In comparison, when playing as Tower, the battles in the first week are strictly ranged, but with the appearance of Golems and Nagas, the fighter strength becomes more and more apparent. That is why Neela is chosen (with an eye on the 2nd week), and not a hero with ranged attacks is recruited in the tavern. Winning with Castle will depend on relying on the melee talent of this faction. But this does not mean that ranged units should not be used. The strength of Castle lies in the coordination of ranged units and infantry.