philosophy — Philosophy

Nowizard

8/12/2006 10:25 PM UTC

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2 ML. Sometimes, aren't they Necromancers?;) :D

The philosophy is more akin to Paladins and Knights than to people in general: Yes, evil exists, and we have to live with it... But we cannot tolerate it!

P.S. 2 ML. Undead are ALREADY raised from their graves by Necromancers, and not for the best of purposes. But I understand you, and therefore, I will correct the inscription in my post from undead to Necromancers.

Бог есть любовь

In reply to Nowizard

Sergh

8/13/2006 12:01 AM UTC

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Nowizard;25551

Undead are those who have ALREADY been raised from their graves by Necromancers, and not for the best purposes. But I understand you, and therefore, I will correct the inscription in my post from undead to Necromancers.

Who knows if their purposes are good or not...
Do you think they were better off in their graves?

Мечты сбываются, просто нужно уметь правильно мечтать.

Жизнь нужно прожить так, чтобы Боги в восторге предложили еще одну...
P.S. может мне и предложили, просто я не помню :smile44:

AlexeyPank

8/13/2006 3:02 AM UTC

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The undead frighten people with their unknowable nature. Everything that people don't understand, they call evil or primitive. The undead cannot be primitive because they are stronger. Therefore, they are evil. People have never tried to understand what drives necromancers to reject life and transition into a state of undeath. They felt that necromancers were superior to them, and therefore always fought them and persecuted them. And in general: **By killing life, you give birth to death, but by killing death, will life be born?**

Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Nowizard

8/13/2006 9:24 PM UTC

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Initially, the Necromancers were driven out not by people, but by mages. And it was envy that was the reason! When the defeated Necromancers came to the people and began to preach "mass suicide," the priests naturally became alarmed. If the Necromancers had not been driven out of the empire, the Griffin Empire would have slowly but surely turned into one large cemetery, because, having gained enough power, the undead would have killed everyone who disagreed with joining them, and later turned them into "their own." And if the Necromancers themselves are so tired of life, why are they still in this world? They could have committed suicide, and that would have been the end of it. And there would have been no need to disturb peacefully sleeping corpses and FORCE them to fight for their own interests. Instead, they invent all sorts of ways to avoid death: Horcruxes, vampirism, spells... they are willing to do anything, just to stay in this busy and beautiful world for as long as possible. You might think they are AFRAID of death! And maybe they are. And in general, the philosophy of the Necromancers is wrong: you need to REJOICE in life, and in what nature and God have given you. You shouldn't try to cheat death; sooner or later, it will take its toll.

P.S. 2 Sergh: They were more at peace in the graves.

P.P.S. 2 AlexeyPank: NORMAL people study and research what they don't understand. Some of them later become mages (not necessarily the ones we know from Heroes 5) or simply scientists.

P.P.P.S. Not all people are like the ones you describe. Far from it.

Бог есть любовь

AlexeyPank

8/15/2006 4:42 AM UTC

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Necromancers do not know life in the human sense. Necromancers do not fear death in the human sense. Comparing the perceptions of the undead and the perceptions of humans is like comparing length to temperature. Which is greater, 2 meters or 30 degrees?
And humans don't even try to understand this. It's too complicated. It's much easier to declare the undead as evil and proclaim a fight against them. And, by the way, the undead do not seek to destroy all humans at once, because then they would lose their source of replenishment. And in general: "Death, there is plenty of room for those who are dead. Death, there is plenty of room for those who are alive."

Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.

Night

8/15/2006 5:43 PM UTC

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Life is death, death is new life. New life is new death. New death is new life...

In reply to AlexeyPank

Nowizard

8/15/2006 6:43 PM UTC

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AlexeyPank;26214

Necromancers do not know life in the human sense. Necromancers do not fear death in the human sense. Comparing the perceptions of the undead and the perceptions of humans is like comparing length to temperature. Which is greater, 2 meters or 30 degrees?
And humans don't even try to understand this. It's too complicated. It's much easier to declare the undead as evil and proclaim a fight against them. And, by the way, the undead do not seek to destroy all humans at once, because then they would lose their source of replenishment. And in general: "Death, there is plenty of room for those who are dead. Death, there is plenty of room for those who are alive."

You are generalizing again. Not all humans are like you say. I've already said that NORMAL people, if they don't understand something, they study it. By the way, how would you act, being a Necromancer, if monks and archangels came to your territory and started consecrating everything, and turning the dead, your servants, back into the living? And you are right that Necromancers and humans are different - unlike Necromancers, humans feel, sympathize, and love...
And also: in your opinion, is it good that Necromancers disturb peacefully sleeping dead? Moreover, they even force them to fight for their own, selfish goals, while all the dead want is peace...

P.S. If Necromancers are not afraid of death, then why do they avoid it in every possible way?

Бог есть любовь

In reply to Nowizard

ML.

8/15/2006 7:06 PM UTC

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Nowizard;26732

You're generalizing again. Not all people are like you say. I've already said that NORMAL people, if they don't understand something, they study it. By the way, how would you act, as a Necromancer, if monks and archangels came to your territory and started consecrating everything, and turning your undead servants back into the living? And you're right that Necromancers and humans are different – unlike Necromancers, humans feel, sympathize, and love...
And also: in your opinion, is it right for Necromancers to disturb peacefully sleeping corpses? Moreover, they even force them to fight for their own, selfish goals, while all the undead want is peace...

P.S. If Necromancers are not afraid of death, then why do they avoid it in every possible way?

You say that mages drove Necromancers away out of envy, and humans out of fear. But why not let them found their own state – they would live peacefully, trade with other peoples and races, and the undead would simply work for them. Necromancers don't fight because they want to kill everyone (if everyone is dead, who will serve them – the undead are not eternal either). They just want to be left alone. And they force the undead to serve them because not every creature of flesh and blood will understand them, but the dead don't reason – they obey.

И пусть тьма освещает Ваш путь.

"- Так кто же ты, наконец?
- Я - часть той силы, что вечно хочет зла и вечно совершает благо."
"Фауст" Гете

In reply to ML.

Nowizard

8/15/2006 7:44 PM UTC

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ML.;26734

You say that Necromancers were driven out by mages out of envy, and by people out of fear. But why didn't they just found their own state? They could live peacefully, trade with other nations and races, and the undead would simply work for them. Necromancers don't fight because they want to kill everyone (if everyone is dead, who will serve them – the undead are not eternal either). They simply want to be left alone. And they force the undead to serve them because not every creature of flesh and blood will understand them, but the dead don't reason – they obey.

They could have founded their own state and left everyone else alone. I know that Necromancers have already tried to found their kingdom in the Harash Valley, but they were defeated by mages. I repeat: MAGES, not people. Among people, the Necromancers earned their dislike themselves. They desecrated human (and not only human) graves, in which lay the valiant ancestors of the Griffin Empire (and not only). Again, the question is: how would you react if your great-grandfathers were raised from their graves and turned into drooling, stinking zombies? If the Necromancers have an inferiority complex and have no one to talk to, they could talk to each other (they understand each other, after all?). I am willing to believe that you and AlexeyPank do not want war with people and treat their beliefs and faith with understanding, but judging by the behavior of the undead heroes in H5, Necromancers look more like vile, lying scoundrels, craving power and immortality, rather than philosophers contemplating life and death. I am an elf. I have nothing to do with the affairs of people or the undead, so it is easier for me to look at the situation from the outside, objectively.

P.S. I didn't say that people drove the undead away out of fear. I actually meant that people were defending their territory.

Added 3 minutes ago
I just reviewed the history of the Necromancers and humans. And I didn't find a single event there that would describe even friction between the Griffin Empire and the Necropolis. It turns out that Markel was the first to interfere in the affairs of people, and not in a good way. Therefore, people have every reason to hate Necromancers.

Бог есть любовь

ML.

8/15/2006 7:48 PM UTC

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Here's a question: aren't mages people too? P.S. Zombies don't drool – they have nothing to drool with!

И пусть тьма освещает Ваш путь.

"- Так кто же ты, наконец?
- Я - часть той силы, что вечно хочет зла и вечно совершает благо."
"Фауст" Гете

In reply to ML.

Nowizard

8/15/2006 8:54 PM UTC

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If they are presented as a separate race... Although, in general, yes, they can be cited as an example of the type of people that you, Necromancers, strongly dislike (and I don't particularly like them either). Arrogant, pompous; as soon as they see something that could become stronger than them, they try to eliminate it in every way possible (which can be understood, but not approved). The Empire is different: the main things in their lives are honor, valor, friendship, and courage. They never attack anyone first, and always strive for peace and prosperity. Of course, there are also evil people: bandits, scammers

Бог есть любовь

ML.

8/15/2006 9:01 PM UTC

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I also like the people from that empire (it's my third favorite faction, second only to Dungeon). And the mages are just arrogant, self-absorbed jerks. P.S. Zombies smell because they are essentially decaying corpses. P.P.S. But skeletons are clean.

И пусть тьма освещает Ваш путь.

"- Так кто же ты, наконец?
- Я - часть той силы, что вечно хочет зла и вечно совершает благо."
"Фауст" Гете

In reply to ML.

Nowizard

8/15/2006 9:11 PM UTC

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ML.;26769

I also like the people from the empire (it's my third favorite faction, second is Dungeon). And mages are just arrogant, self-absorbed jerks.

P.S. Zombies smell because they are essentially decaying corpses.

P.P.S. But skeletons are clean. :)

Yes! I'm glad we finally came to a consensus! :) Although, I don't believe in a panacea. It can't be that ALL mages are arrogant jerks.

P.S. I know that zombies are decaying corpses, but the fact remains. :D

P.P.S. There are different types of skeletons.

Бог есть любовь