Dark energy — Necropolis

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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Fireball;163801

Really? Someone like Zoltan easily reaches level 12-13, or even 15, within 1 week in the Outcast Lands, and he can quite comfortably take on the Dragon Utopia by the 8th day (sometimes even the 6th).

And why couldn't a necro have damage spells? His mana situation is actually better. At the start, Plague really burns everything down; Matyuk from the Dragon Utopia will kill a warlock with one cast in the 2nd week—by the way, there's lightning from druids and the guild is built too.

Yeah, but even 200 basic archers with Resistance (strictly in the 2nd week)—that's 1400 hp + raising dead. What are you going to break through them with?
When effectively for the first 8-9 days you are given about 580-600 TE, that is a very serious addition to the army.

I have a proposal... you generate a save. You level up Zoltan, I'll do Letos... After the first week, we send each other the saves to make sure that no one lies later on. And "later" means creating them in the editor with absolutely the same parameters as they were leveled during the first week. With the same army. And then we'll clash them on the duel server. We'll post the results here and it will be clear whether necros have enough energy for a rush or not))

Fireball

18 years ago

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You're leveling up Zoltan, I'm using Leto. After the first week, we'll exchange save files to make sure that no one is cheating later on. Then, we'll create characters in the editor with exactly the same parameters as they were leveled up to in the first week, with the same army. And we'll pit them against each other on a duel server. We'll post the results here, and it will be clear whether the Necromancer rush has enough energy or not.

On what map? Usually, Leto is compared to the Engineer. Let's do this: you name the map (for the sake of interest, it's better to choose something where you can level up quickly) and choose a hero for the Dungeon faction. Then, I'll choose any Necromancer if you chose Leto, and any hero other than Kaspar if you didn't choose Leto. Then, we exchange save files from the end of day 8; this is more indicative. Does that work?

I don't hear any agreement or objections. Hello! By the way, I was thinking, since this is primarily an experiment, we need to determine exactly what we are testing: the possibility of a Necromancer rush in the Dungeon faction during the first week, in which case the save file should be from day 7, or during the second week, in which case we need a save file after using the second-week Town Portal, which is usually day 9, sometimes 8 or 10. Depending on the experiment, we need to choose the map accordingly. In short, let me know what exactly you want to test.

2 Dracon Malassa

What map is this? I don't believe that on a normal map without various bonuses and treasure chests, on a normal difficulty, a hero or even a veteran can have that much Town Portal energy by the second week.

You need to read more carefully, and then don't disbelieve, or is Russian your second language? I wrote, pay attention to the cases and numbers:

in fact, in the first 8-9 days, you get about 580-600 Town Portal energy.

This phrase clearly means that in 8-9 days, we can spend 580-600 Town Portal energy. On the first day, we get 200, on the eighth day, 200+150+hero's 30-50. That's 580-600, what's confusing about that?

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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We're checking if a productive start with Zoltan is possible... I can take anyone from the list: Kifrah, Vaishan. (I won't take Letosa, I believe he can be rushed by Kaspar). Save exactly 7 days – because on the second week, you get a bonus to Town Experience. Choose the map yourself, I don't mind.

And this... Just as an experiment... So there won't be any "you idiot, I told you not to, I'm just curious to see" later)))

Fireball

18 years ago

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We are checking the possibility of a productive start for Zoltan... I can take anyone from the list: Kifran, Vaishan. (I won't take Leto, I believe he can be rushed by Kaspar). Save exactly for 7 days, as on the second week, you get a bonus to mana. Choose the map yourself; I don't care.

Okay, 7 days, Zoltan. Since I mentioned the Outlands, let's play on them. Veteran difficulty; specify the hero, bonus, and player color. Then I'll generate the save, as always, and if it turns out to be something special, let me know, and I'll change it.

And this... Just as an experiment... So that later there won't be something like, "You idiot, I told you not to, I'm just interested in checking it out."

I completely agree that this is an experiment, the result of which we need to find out, and not a game. There will be no losers. And I have great respect for people who suggest not talking but checking. So, you definitely deserve respect.

ValgallaWolf

18 years ago

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Blue, Vaishan, Artifact. 30 characters.

Fireball

18 years ago

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Blue, Waisan, Artifact. 30 characters

Hmm, are you sure about blue? It's earth terrain, and you'll be moving with a 1.25 penalty (which is like losing 1.5 days). It's true that moving is worse in the underworld just based on the routes, but I'm curious why you didn't choose red. A Necromancer moves on earth and grass without any penalties. Or do you have some other considerations? Anyway, here are two starting saves. 1: Waisan, blue, artifact; Zoltan, red, artifact. 2: Waisan, red, gold; Zoltan, blue, gold. For symmetry, you could say. http://rapidshare.com/files/102477941/saves.zip.html Well, I've played through the first option (red Zoltan), and the save is attached. If anyone doesn't want to download it, I'll briefly describe the hero at the end of the seventh day. Zoltan, level 13, 7-10-15-9 (equipped with King's Gnome Armor and Helmet, Moon Blade, Dragonbone Greaves, and Boots of Swiftness in his inventory), luck 2 (horseshoe); Expert in Darkness, Expert in Education, Expert in Defense with Last Stand and Resilience, Necromancer's Mark; in the spellbook: Vampirism and Unholy Word; army of 134 skeleton archers, 36 zombies, 11 ghosts, 5 vampires, 2 alternate skeletons, 2 orcish warriors. Didn't manage to spend 17 skill points, in the castle - creatures up to vampires, Guild, Bone Pillar, i.e., as it would be in a real game, 4 additional heroes were purchased. http://rapidshare.com/files/102894918/Zoltan.zip.html We're waiting for Waisan by ValgallaWolf, and we'll analyze it.

In reply to Fireball

Нэйко

17 years ago

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Here's what I have to say about the Necropolis' dark energy: "This ability is the coolest of all!" Resurrecting an unlimited number of skeletons is certainly good, but I'd rather revive someone stronger. For example, being at least level 20, I can already resurrect a decent army, practically for free, so I think the developers did a good job with this.

Lord Vampire

17 years ago

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The current necromancy system with dark energy is much better than the previous one. Previously, it took a couple of weeks to gather a large army of skeletons.

KonServator

17 years ago

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Lately, I've enjoyed raising only level 1-4 creatures using necromancy. IMHO, ghosts and vamps are more useful than high-level own large creatures. It feels like the Dark Magic is being spent in the right direction. Zombies and skeletons are good as meat during difficult battles where heavy losses are inevitable (for example, taking the Dragon Utopia).

P.S. I don't know if anyone has noticed yet, but instead of one bone dragon, for the same amount of energy, you can raise 58 unupgraded skeletons (which is almost 3 basic weekly growths).

Lord Vampire

17 years ago

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Of course, I usually summon either skeletons or zombies, which I do rarely; I summon ghosts more often, and vampires quite often as well. I don't even build anything higher than that in some cases.

LordViRuS

17 years ago

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I prefer to raise undead creatures; they may be expensive, but they are very effective, especially if you have vampirism. Relying on zombies and skeletons is pointless because they are too weak and are quickly defeated.

VaRvArHawk

17 years ago

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For example, if you're playing against a Mage, it's better to use Warriors. They cost less energy and can be summoned in large numbers. They are more useful than Undead. And a group of Zombies usually survives until the end of the battle, and they often finish it in large-scale battles.

In reply to VaRvArHawk

LordViRuS

17 years ago

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VaRvArHawk

For example, if you're playing against a Mage, it's better to use Warriors.

Yes, exactly. When playing against Mages, it's better to have large, strong stacks, as their 25% magic resistance won't save them much. So, it's better to raise Vampires instead; at least they'll be useful.