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Posts from Rules for Heroes of Might and Magic III online tournaments on HeroesWorld.
This might be an interesting idea, but I'm concerned about the transition to playing on a closed map. First, playing on an open map is very different from playing on a closed map. When you can see and know everything, you develop a game plan accordingly. But what happens afterward? There will be no experience gained. What's the point of that? Second, at what point will a player decide that they are no longer a beginner and it's time to play on a closed map? It's like saying, "I'll quit smoking on Monday." I agree with Neo; it strongly resembles a way to legally cultivate map hackers...
1) Technical point: in the WT version, launching two copies of the game will be prohibited, and a random map will not be created on the disk (this will be implemented in the first release) - i.e., elementary map hacking methods will be blocked.
2) We are talking about the greenest players. For example, when I started playing online 4 years ago, I was just like that, even though I had been playing with my brother since the release of the first Heroes game, so I had a lot of experience, but zero knowledge of online play. And if someone had shown me such a game, the learning process would have been much faster.
3) The purpose of this approach is to show the basic tricks of an experienced player - you don't need to buy the first hero, you need to use chains, you need to quickly and effectively control the territory.
4) This feature is more of a burden for a beginner - it's like an experienced player saying, "I'll beat you even on an open map," and then does so. After 2-5 times, the beginner will learn the basic aspects of the game and be able to compete with an experienced player on an open map, and then it will become interesting for them to fight on equal terms.
5) Bonuses - the mentor should receive bonuses in the form of rating points, medals, etc., and the beginner should be given the "NOOB" medal while playing with these rules.
6) I think some beginners, unable to figure out what and how, simply give up... but this feature could explain a lot to them.
7) Some noobs think you're a cheater if you take too long to make a move; this feature will change that opinion
The key word here is WORLD! Many people registered on Heroes of Might and Magic Online and Might & Magic: Heroes Online, so there will be enough tournaments for everyone :) I'm not even mentioning that some people play offline sometimes :p
If they understand that people will leave to play interesting tournaments on other sites, what's the point of restricting these same players on Heroes of Might and Magic Online? :)
The point here isn't about the quality of execution, but about fundamental principles.
And that's exactly what I'm talking about – fundamental principles. I took the time to delve into the details, as Term suggested before the game – I browsed through it, but to truly understand the template, you need to play it many times. Otherwise, all these complex schemes remain "abstract" in your imagination. It's like a student trying to solder a microchip immediately after the master engineer "showed everything." I realized that I missed many timings, and as was said, I should have defeated my opponent by week 3. And the template itself isn't simple – in the "HMM3TE - Reading Templates" thread on the forum, you were corrected about something regarding a path from zone 20 to zone 18…;)
I took the time to study the material based on Therma's advice before the game - I browsed it, but to understand the pattern, you need to play it many times.
You don't need to play for that at all. The material presented in the article was compiled by me in a couple of days after generating and reviewing about 50 generations without playing them. Later, I only added to the collection of bugs and refined the nuances.
And it's even simpler with the presented material - you can understand the whole model after 5-10 generations. But for some reason, it seems to me that you haven't reviewed even one with a compass.
Kash
17 years ago
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1. A huge request to everyone – please keep the off-topic discussions to a minimum in this thread. Respect Pete's work. Instead of studying physics, the guy is putting effort into organizational activities, and you...
2. Regarding the topic. As for the NK (for now, we'll call it that) – we're starting to work on it gradually. Soon, a sub-section will be created in the "Heroes 3 Tournament - Tournaments for the 3rd Heroes - ONLINE" section (at least, the corresponding applications have been submitted, we're waiting for a response). The basis of the sub-section will be "Basic Training"; Nagan-4 is preparing the starting topic, you'll all see it. I urge everyone who can help with gathering material to contact me via ICQ or private message. The other topics are… in development. A topic with analysis of matches by involving top players is planned. A tournament for beginners is planned, it's just an outline for now, but it will definitely happen. And once again, a request from point 1: In the new sub-section, I would like to see as much useful information as possible and as little off-topic discussions and arguments as possible. The prospective moderator is a gentle and kind person. So, guys, think about what you write sometimes.
To Kostyan and Evgeny: when you have some free time in real life, find some time to contact me
But the committee needs an appealing name, not a repulsive one! Personally, I don't care if it's called "noob" or "lamer" – I always call myself that, but I suspect that many newly arrived players might find it offensive!:smile06: Let them even play at the Jade level (with cheats turned off:D) and similar... The word "school" shouldn't be in the name, in my opinion – who would want to be associated with school (even if they finished it 10 years ago)?
I haven't come up with a name yet, but it should be related to either "training" or "war" (since both sports and war are present in our game). "Fresh Blood" is not bad; maybe something correct can be created with "newbies" – after all, there are at least 2 "newbies" in the game who can be a decisive factor (in the sense: spell and art):D.
The rest of the ideas (regarding the organization) – tomorrow morning :).
Pit for LM
17 years ago
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Based on the previous discussion. It seems no one objects to the general name "Tournament Committee". Let's confirm it. I hope we will soon receive the Creator's blessing and permission to organize a section for the Tournament Committee. The request was sent yesterday. Each Commission will decide its own name. The NC are already deciding. And they have already started working. The interest in newcomers is encouraging. Organizing Committees. There's no need to argue about the exact number of tournaments. We need to draw up a schedule for holding traditional tournaments - that's not difficult, communicate with potential Organizers, wait for proposals from the NC. IMHO, if tournaments differ in themes, one won't interfere with another. For example, ClanWar and a Team tournament are naturally never held at the same time. Or it is known that InterPortal and a contest for the best report are planned for the end of the year. Obviously, team competitions cannot be held simultaneously with IP. But an IP is not an obstacle for a tournament for newcomers. It is important to discuss the format and timing of the traditional Main HeroesWorld tournament. And one more thing. I do not like it when, in a topic discussing the Rules of tournaments, people I respect start insulting each other out of the blue. I ask you to refrain from this.
Results of the elections to the Appeal Commission of the Tournament Committee. A total of 38 people voted: bRitvo4kA, Pit for LM, He3Hauka, Dirty_Player, Дубровин Павел, Sem 56, SpiriTT, <аноним1>, Hermit, еwgeniy, LeBron, OUTLAW, Деконтаминатор, Psyche_7, КостяN, Alex_R, redwhait, Captain, Nagan-4, vbn, Kash, Ta Kotoraya..., Mizrael, Wlk777, Oelm, Wicc, RAPER, invisible, Neoandy, Alone, Javdet, scorp, Aldegir, KobRa_RR, Revan, Lider1, Avern, Smoke_mk. (the first number is FOR, the second is AGAINST, the third is % FOR, the fourth is % AGAINST (% rounded to tenths)) 1. Alex_R - 22-10 - 57.9-26.3 2. Mizrael - 21-0 - 55.3-0 3. LeBron - 25-3 - 65.8-7.9 4. Pit for LM - 36-0 - 94.7-0 5. scorp - 23-1 - 60.5-2.6 6. vbn - 32-0 - 84.2-0 7. Дубровин Павел - 27-3 - 71.1-7.9 8. Dirty Player - 23-0 - 60.5-0
In one of the previous posts, respected Alex_R recused himself. But he expressed readiness to help the AC in its work.
Additionally, votes were cast for: Nagan-4 - +7 invisible - +8-1 Javdet - +6 Dreamcatcher - +3 Loi - +2 ewgeniy - +2 Ta Kotoraya... - +4-4 Oelm - +1 Wicc - +1 Uran - +1
Now regarding the numerical composition. More or less specifically, 18 voters (47.4%) were FOR a "seven", 5 people (13.2%) were FOR a "five". The remaining 15 either expressed nothing at all, or formulated it as: if 5 - then for this one, if 7 - then plus ...
Based on the above, I propose to approve the composition of the AC as 7 people:
1. Mizrael 2. LeBron 3. Pit for LM 4. scorp 5. vbn 6. Дубровин Павел 7. Dirty Player
In this composition, the AC will function for the summer and fall season of 2009. From November 1st, we will begin discussing the results of the work and announce the start of a new election campaign.
/Thank you all who voted for me. I perceive this result not so much as personal support, but as approval of the Tournament Rules we are currently discussing. And your, friends, interest in this matter is the most important thing for me./
I sent the file with the results via e-mail to vbn. I don't know where to send it to ewgeniy, Ta Kotoraya... and Nagan-4. Please let me know.
In a few hours I will post the AC Rules of Operation on the forum for discussion. I haven't quite finished it yet
Alone
17 years ago
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I can already participate in the beginner tournament on the 8mm4 map. Following asm's suggestion, I would like to play with an open map:rolleyes: even against any top player – experience is key:smile01: P.S. Since I'm a beginner, the map will be open only for me).
With this composition, the AK will function during the summer and autumn seasons of 2009. Starting November 1st, we will begin discussing the results of our work and announce the start of a new election campaign.
Absurd! Don't act like politicians. Re-election should only occur if someone is unable/unwilling/or failing to perform their duties.
P.S. See "The Concept of Public Safety."
Pit for LM
17 years ago
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To ewgeniy. Huge thanks to you for what you did above.Nagan-4
It is already the end of May. I hope that by June: the Players' Council will hurry the organizers along with the tournament same deadlines.
I glanced through the current tournaments. Requests: To Dirty_Player. I ask you to prepare full information on the progress of the Best of ХВ tournament: those in arrears with games and the deadlines set by Organizer ewgeniy for each round. Judging by Psyche_7' same table, the situation there is very poor. Also, inform the masses about the progress of the TK3 tournament. To Alex_R. As a Participant in the "Seasons" tournament, please provide info on the progress of this tournament. To Napalm - KobRa, vitalic-KobRa. Please hurry up with the final game. Respect the work of the Organizers! Do not make them wait and beg you. In the team tournament, as I understand it, everything is fine.
So, what we have in the Rules (with amendments):
VII. Appeal Committee (AC) 1. The numerical composition of the AC is 7 people. 2. The AC is elected by general vote from among respected and qualified players for a term of 6 months. Additional requirements for AC members: ease of communication—frequent presence in ICQ, having a working e-mail, ability to receive private messages on the forum. 3. If any member of the AC wishes to resign their powers as an AC member for any reason, they must notify the forum users. In this case, a new player is elected to their place. 4. The AC is charged with the following duties: a) consulting users on tournament rules; b) monitoring the progress of tournaments, assisting Organizers; c) reviewing disputed situations in tournament games; d) making decisions in cases of unfair play; e) submitting amendments to the current Rules of games and tournaments for a forum vote. 5. The AC may organize a discussion of any serious problem on the forum to ascertain the opinion of forum users and make a decision based on it. The AC may also organize a vote on a particular issue. 6. To make decisions in complex situations, it is necessary that 4 or more AC members participate in the discussion of the issue and the decision be made by a majority of votes from the total number of AC members (i.e., 4 or more). AC decisions are recognized by all forum users, are final, and are not subject to discussion.
Questions on the organization of the AC. 1 Is a Chief—Chairman—or something else needed...? 2.Neoandy
I would recommend Alex for the "prosecutor's office"
Wicc
There is no dispute regarding a Prosecutor or Advocate. The qualities fully correspond. The main thing is not to put him in the role of Judge.
Alex_R recused himself and did not join the AC. The AC will involve him as an Accuser in cheating cases. He's unlikely to make a good Advocate))) 3. He3Hauka
Have ALL powers of the AC been fully defined, its work structure and actions regarding which cases and exactly when an AC decision must be issued + complex situations within the AC itself (let's say, out of 7 members, 3 are unavailable, 1 is for, 1 against, and 2 abstained. How to make a decision in such cases? This is just an example; there are many situations).
Decision deadlines will be determined separately for each issue. Agree—red-rushing and cheating are different things. In the event of a tie between FOR and AGAINST, we will think further and wait or re-elect the absent AC member. Submit the issue for forum discussion. Involve additional experts; perhaps we will turn to you and Wicc for help. We also have lawyers on our forum. When there is a specific situation, we will look for a solution. Right now, we can only discuss typical problems. We have zero experience. 4.Nagan-4
In half a year—re-elections; a month before re-elections, the start of applications for the second council can be announced and a full, completely legitimate vote can be held there.
Psyche_7
Absurd! Do not emulate politicians. Re-election should only happen if someone cannot/will not/cannot cope.
Considering the turnover of personnel (players leaving the forum), I think half a year is reasonable. There is no experience. It's unknown what will come of this venture. Maybe all this won't even be necessary. 5. Neoandy
If a long-time forum member with whom you have friendly relations falls under suspicion—in the legal sphere, judges are required to recuse themselves in such cases, and the defendant must declare a challenge (if personal relations are hostile, etc.), justifying it...
It's terribly bad that many of us have friendly relations))) True, I'm not sure the opposite would be better. We'll have to solve this as we go. I hope fair, adult people were elected to the AC.Neoandy
The accused must have the right to provide explanations on all points of accusation, and perhaps even bring a specific question for discussion in some cases
This is natural to me, so I didn't even discuss it. I will write the right to defense into the Rules.
6. As I understand it, the following suggestions concern issues of cheating. Hermit
Communication between the review group and other forum users should be minimal, i.e., through an intermediary... If anyone in the review group has questions for any of the knowledgeable forum users—everything only anonymously through the intermediary. The intermediary between the review group and the forum users must pass on their reports of unfair play within a period not exceeding a certain number of days. The intermediary should have several deputies. There should be several people who can replace members of the review group who, for some reason, cannot deal with the forum in the current period.
I didn't fully grasp the thought. How is this all to be technically implemented? Who specifically should be the intermediary? Their deputies? If it concerns suspicions toward someone from the AC, naturally, they will not judge themselves. And it's better to contact directly; there will be fewer misunderstandings.Hermit
None of the forum users should know how each group member voted individually, only the collective decision.
I agree with this.Hermit
The review group, if possible, should not know which forum user's case it is reviewing, only facts, saves, and ICQ logs.
Complex cheating cases cannot be solved based on a single game. A dossier will have to be compiled. How can the AC be kept in the dark here?Hermit
The resolution of disputed issues should not be dragged out.
Deadlines for decisions will be separate for each problem. Dragging it out is not in the AC's interest.Neoandy
And probably some kind of oath for the AC members themselves is necessary, for the violation of which there should also be the strictest measures up to a ban.
If this is needed, I ask users to write this oath.
I draw everyone's attention once more:
VIII. Resolution of disputed situations in tournaments. ... 2. Disputed points during the tournament are decided by the Organizer. 3. If the Organizer is simultaneously a Participant in the tournament, then disputed situations occurring with their participation are decided by the Judge. 4. Also, upon occurrence of difficulties, both Participants and the Organizer and the Judge have the right to appeal to the AC. 5. A disputed point may be brought to the forum for discussion by all users.
Questions on the review of disputed situations. 1. What other tasks do we assign to the AC, besides those listed in VII.4? 2. Classification of our problems. I see the following: - non-confirmation of reports - avoiding finishing games - disputes over game rule violations - disputes over interpretation of game rules - ignoring opponents and the Organizer by a tournament Participant - failure to meet tournament deadlines by a Participant - failure to meet tournament deadlines by an Organizer - rudeness on the forum, in ICQ, in-game - unfair play (cheating, maphacking, cloning...)—should own unexplained disconnects be included here? Provide examples from practice without getting personal.
For each problem, it must be decided: 1. Algorithm of player actions 2. Information necessary for the solution 3. Actions of the AC. 4. The decision is issued either as a resolution of the situation with the agreement of both parties, or a punishment. 5. Deadlines for resolving the issue. 6. Deadlines for initial appeal. Statutes of limitations
Here are approximate rules for the problem: "Non-confirmation of report". 1. A player writes a report. No more than ..?.. days are given for confirmation, depending on the tournament. If the report was not confirmed, the player should try to find out the reason independently. If the opponent did not explain the reasons for non-confirmation or they are disputed, the player has the right to appeal to any member of the AC. 2. A player requesting confirmation of a game report must provide daily saves of the game, the nickname of the non-confirmer on the ХВ forum, methods of contacting them, and if possible, ICQ logs, screenshots, and explanations from the non-confirmer. 3. The AC reviews the provided information and tries to contact the other party. 4. Possible decisions: - a call to confirm the report (this decision must be supported by 4 or more AC members). If confirmation still does not follow, the punishment is defined in the Rules of seasonal games—all subsequent victories in the season for the non-confirmer are not counted. For non-confirmation of a report in a tournament—at the Organizer's discretion, up to disqualification from games. For repeated non-confirmations—a permanent signature under the avatar: "Does not confirm losses. AC" (this still needs to be discussed with the Administration). By decision of the AC, in this case, the victory is credited to the player without confirmation. If the signature "Does not confirm losses. AC" is present, complaints against this player are not considered. - if the non-confirmer provides facts that the victory was achieved unfairly, by violating the Rules, etc., then this is already a different problem. Accordingly, we move to another point. 5. The decision on crediting the game is made within a week from the moment of appeal. 6. A player can first seek help during the season or one round of a tournament. And there it depends on what turn the case takes.
Request those interested to think about and write similar rules for other problems. Or at least come forward with suggestions for individual points.
Questions regarding the organization of the Tournament Committee. 1. Is a Head - Chairman - or some other title needed...?
Yes, I think the Tournament Committee needs a chairperson (head).
I am sure Peter will perform this duty admirably!
For Pit for LM.
SEM_56
17 years ago
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I agree... Considering how thoroughly and meticulously Pit described everything down to the smallest detail, he deserves a heroic tribute... Definitely Pit for LM.
What more can I add? It's all clear – I'm voting for it!:smile20:
Pit for LM
17 years ago
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Thank you for your trust, but the question is different. Is a Chief even necessary, and if so, why? The votes of all Arbitration Committee members are equal. What tasks, different from the others, will this Chief solve? If the role involves encouraging and motivating everyone, writing extensively, and developing various rules, then I am ready. But I am already doing this and will continue to do so, without additional titles. In my opinion, a Chief is not needed.
Pete, you yourself clearly defined what the main administrator is needed for. What more can be added?
"To encourage and motivate everyone, write a lot of text, and develop all sorts of rules" is simply what the main administrator is "supposed" to do...
I'm in favor.
