Counter-heroes in duel mode (3.1). — General: Tribes of the East

chudo_ud0

5/18/2009 10:49 PM UTC

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Anven-Jalib will still attack with Anven in the first turn, unleashing a rain of arrows. Having all the mages in one group is risky for Jalib. I still think it's better to separate them and summon a phoenix.

Самая-самая

5/19/2009 9:00 AM UTC

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Thank you for your comment. I was also surprised by this arrangement at first, but as we can see, the tactic proved to be effective, although usually Anwen Jaliba easily defeats him.

Самая-самая

5/21/2009 6:37 AM UTC

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Here's another interesting replay:
Rabasia played as Lethos, I played as Ibby, the arena was the Abyss, the battle went down to the wire, so check it out:

And here, Razak Oru is crushing it:

:D :smile44:

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letos rabasia def ibba

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dr1992 ora los razzak

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Самая-самая

5/26/2009 6:40 AM UTC

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Marbas tactics: the formation must be correct, specifically, the demonesses hide behind the Lords and Demons, imps are placed between two Devils, dogs are on the other flank from the demonesses, and another Devil should not stand directly next to the Lords, but one cell away.
Everyone stands in defense. When Necromancers approach the Demons, Marbas simply burns them with fireballs (after that, the demonesses (if not in berserk mode) shoot the charred ones). When they get close, we place "mangals" right in front of the Devils and Lords, and that's it.

I don't understand what you mean by "placing mangals":confused: Is this some specific action?:smile32:

In reply to Самая-самая

Alex_R

5/26/2009 6:48 AM UTC

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The very best

I don't understand in what sense we're setting up barbecues?:confused: Is this some specific action?:smile32:

A wall of fire that affects 3 cells... it does a good job of burning, especially with fire-based enhancements like Helmar's.

In reply to Alex_R

ildaryk

5/26/2009 12:29 PM UTC

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Lately, I've been in the middle of nowhere, specifically beyond the realm of eternal permafrost. The internet here is terrible, and I can't connect to the Ubi server. So, don't think I've become a communist; I'll be back.
I'm curious about the Karl-Shak matchup (actually, this matchup is quite boring for many). Who is stronger, and is it worth playing Shak defensively?
Maybe someone can tell me, or we can have a replay battle.

jason32

5/27/2009 1:19 PM UTC

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I don't know how anyone can play duels for so long – it's incredibly boring, especially with Nival's implementation. You clearly know what the opponent has, which spells they have and don't have, which hero counters which other hero, and which doesn't. It's even possible to win on a Black Knight. If someone wants to play proper duels, there was already a duel map created long ago: Random Tactical Arena; several tournaments have already been held using it. Duels are just awful compared to that, unfortunately

ildaryk

5/28/2009 5:40 AM UTC

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Some people find even chess boring, but duels offer a completely different experience, distinct from the standard gameplay. Here, much depends on a deeper and more structured analysis of the game. And if you know everything about Heroes of Might and Magic, try to beat, say, a "domovoi" (house spirit) in random maps, even just once out of ten games.

In reply to ildaryk

jason32

5/28/2009 1:14 PM UTC

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ildaryk

Some people find even chess nauseating, while duels are a completely different world, distinct from the standard. Here, much depends on a deeper and more structured analysis of the game. And if you know everything in Heroes, try to beat, say, a Domovoi in random battles, even just once out of ten games.

Comparing duels to chess? That's ridiculous. What "standard" are we talking about? Did you even click on the link? RTA – that's a real duel, balanced and fair; there's no need to painstakingly search for counter-heroes. In general, what's the point of arguing about the taste of oysters with someone who hasn't eaten them? I've played duels, and quite a few, and they have shown their complete limitations. Judging by the words about the "standard," you haven't even seen the map.
Bring on the Domovoi – I'll beat him without any problems; it's not rocket science when you know exactly what the opponent has in their arsenal. What kind of deep game analysis is there when games are won on a whim? Seriously, even now, it's mostly known who, how, and where will be positioned. What kind of game is it when there's just a set of actions for many heroes that leads them 100% to victory? I haven't seen such predetermination in chess. It's more like a coin toss; you get the right hero, and you win.

In reply to jason32

Wistrit

5/28/2009 2:03 PM UTC

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Besides the heroes, there is also tactics, the battlefield, the ATB position, and much more... duels are also a rather complex type of battle.

Tomorrow holds no promises
Except the ones we've made

In reply to Wistrit

jason32

5/28/2009 4:14 PM UTC

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WisTrit

Besides the heroes, there's also tactics, the battlefield, the ATB position, and much more... duels are also a rather complex type of battle.

Yes, it's clear that a small element of randomness remains, but it's so small that you can barely see it under a microscope. In the end, the one who knows the counter-heroes against the opponent better wins.

Самая-самая

5/28/2009 4:19 PM UTC

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Simply knowing the counter-heroes against your opponent isn't enough here. Experience, tactics, the skill scale, and many other things matter. Some people find it interesting when all elements are random, but there's still something to learn even in duels.

In reply to Самая-самая

jason32

5/28/2009 5:27 PM UTC

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The very best

Simply knowing the counter-heroes against your opponent is clearly not enough here. Experience, tactics, and many other things matter. Some people find it interesting when all elements are random, but there's still something to learn even in duels.;)

Everything is known by comparison. The highlight of Heroes lies in a certain probability of different randomness, in the various ideas of an opponent, in their tactics. Standard duels lack almost all of this – there’s always the same hero, the same troops, the same spells – you can’t come up with much here. People have even written tactics for different heroes here – how they should act – for example, for Deidre, they provided the order of spells, using which guarantees her victory against some heroes if the player isn’t completely inept. What interest could there be in such a game – only in ATB (Always Turn Based), luck will play a role or not. Everything is known by comparison – normal duels are RTA (10% ATB, 90% skill of the player), standard duels are 90% predetermined (knowledge of counter-tactics for heroes), 5% luck due to ATB, 5% skill of the player. When facing a hero in a duel, I know exactly what he has in store, what his troops are, what his upgrades are; nothing surprises me anymore, so it creates a complete imbalance – some heroes lose to everyone, others are absolute powerhouses. How can this be acceptable?

chudo_ud0

5/29/2009 12:16 PM UTC

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Well, everyone praises their own swamp. I came up with a random map, and now everyone says duels are pointless. Back in the day, people also criticized the standard format, saying that playing only in the TE standard is boring. Learn how to play, and then criticize. And by the way, I played your map and am participating in the tournament, and there's plenty of imbalance there too (no enchanted items, no mini-artifacts, etc. - imbalance of troops - when two strong players play, the one who gets lucky with items and army will clearly win. You shouldn't compare these two completely different modes!
Regarding the Karl and Shaka pairing, it's quite interesting, and I would also like to play it more. I usually play Shaka defensively (except against mages), but here, maybe
you also need to play offensively.

Lord Vampire

5/29/2009 12:31 PM UTC

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Uh... guys, calm down... Dex. Jess meant Ranked Town Adventure, not a Random Map. In Ranked Town Adventure, there are fixed maps and mini-arts, and the army will only consist of the units you buy. In general, decide first what everyone is talking about. And then you can argue:) *Sat down comfortably and started eating popcorn*