"Knights of Honor" — Tournament history (offline)

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Firelord

20 years ago

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OFFLINE Tournament "Knights of Honor"

I've been looking at various online resources for offline tournaments... IMHO, many find them inaccessible due to their complex and hard-to-execute rules, deadlines, and the difficulty of organizing and control... All these rules are necessary to avoid unfairness... I want to propose creating a tournament where fairness is established not by tedious rules, seconds, and judges, but by the Honor and Valor of the players themselves! As they say, We gentlemen take each other's word for it. :) In our case, something else will serve as the "word," but without any saves, game chronologies, or arena creation. Of course, not everyone will be able to play this way—most likely only proven forum members. The most important things in such a tournament are honesty and reliability. There will be no prize, of course, so there will be no incentive to behave dishonestly. It's like a game between two friends who are neighbors:
- Look how many points I scored on this map!
- That's nothing... Look how many I have!
- Wow! Well then, I'll beat the record!

As for the reward—that's up to the administration... Make suggestions on how to arrange it! Here is mine:

A list of players is compiled (only the most honest and fair!), the organizer selects maps, posts them one by one, players complete them and send a screenshot of the results showing the map name, player nick (must match the forum nick, and an identification mark issued by the organizer can be added), and points. Places will be awarded based on points. The system could be like this—for example, 8 players play a map, the 4 best results are chosen, those 4 players play the next map, 2 are chosen, and so on. Use of cheats, programs, and non-personal walkthroughs is prohibited. All this, of course, depends on your conscientiousness! I think using game bugs can be allowed, but then we'll need to agree on the game version—choice of SoD3.2, WoG, TE. Or we could ignore the version, since final points depend on the map and player experience! The point calculation formula shall be known to all: (200-(Days+10)/(N+5)+25+25)*difficulity :
where Days is the number of days, N is the number of towns on the map, difficulity is the difficulty level (easy=0.8, normal=1, hard=1.2 (seemingly), expert=1.6, impossible=2), first +25 points—if all enemies were killed, second +25 points—if the grail was dug up
Maximum 500 points. Something like that.

Waiting for your suggestions! Be honest!

Participant list:
Varg-Nar
Firelord
Qwerty
VDV_forever
fanat
Alex_soldier
Ta Kotoraya...
AlexeyPank
Supreme
UTER

The list continues to form, submit your applications.
Regulations of the first Tournament of Honor.
1. The tournament is conducted in three stages. The duration of each stage is 40 days. After this period, saves will not be accepted for consideration. There will be no exceptions!

2. Each stage involves three task-saves. Thus, the total number of tasks is nine, one for each race. The goal is to score the highest number of points while being guided by the SPIRIT, IDEOLOGY, and Rules of the save walkthrough.

3. Competitive events are held on maps of size M and L, with dungeons (M, L) and without them (L). Thus, 3 map size options are possible: M with dungeon, L without dungeon, L with dungeon. Computer opponents play in a union ("alliance"), their number ranging from 3 to 4 depending on the map's characteristics. The final decision regarding the number of opponents, map sizes, as well as terrain features (specifically water areas, mountains, teleports) is made by the tournament Organizers.

4. At the end of each stage, the participant sends winning saves and a screenshot of the "hall of fame." The winning save is made before the final battle. Winning saves should be named as follows: task number player nick points. For example: 1 vbs 500. In the screenshot name, put scr followed by the same as in the save name. The map should be completed under the nick registered in the tournament. Address for winning saves: TKoH@bk.ru

5. A player is entitled to send as many winning saves as they managed to complete. Thus, the number of sent saves can be from 1 to 3.

6. It is MANDATORY to save the message sent with the saves until the results are tallied. This is so that in case of email failure, the player can prove they sent the saves BEFORE the deadline.

7. Within a week after the end of each stage, results for each save are tallied.

8. After the third and final stage, general results are tallied. The results of all the player's winning saves are taken into account. Results are tallied by summing the points obtained during the walkthrough of each save. The tournament winner receives the corresponding title.

9. In case two or more participants score the same number of points, the following additional indicators apply:
1) number of days;
2) main hero's experience;
3) sum of main hero's primary skills without artifacts;
4) sum of primary skills with artifacts.

10. In case one or more players score the same number of points in the general standings, the following indicators apply:
1) "countdown" - arithmetic mean between a system fixing first and last places;
2) total number of days to complete all saves.

11. In case of doubts about the honesty of the walkthrough, the player is OBLIGED to provide a detailed report. Arguments such as "every squad had morale every turn," "all computer players entered Utopia one by one and died there," etc., will not be considered. If a player cannot provide a satisfactory report on the walkthrough, their save will be annulled. In case dishonest play is proven, the player will be excluded from the tournament without the right to participate in Tournaments of Honor for one year. In case of PROVEN use of cheat codes or other known dishonest methods in a final walkthrough, the tournament organizers will submit an ADMIN request to revoke the player's access to the site ("ban").

12. Tournament Organizers reserve the right to disqualify any participant from the tournament. They are not obliged to explain the reasons for such a step or prove that the walkthrough does not match the SPIRIT of the tournament.

Rules of the save walkthrough.
1. When completing a save, one should be guided by the SPIRIT and IDEOLOGY of the tournament and be honest.
2. Save hacking, use of third-party programs ("hero diggers" etc.), as well as the use of cheat codes is strictly prohibited.
3. Prohibited:
3.1. Dishonest play;
3.2. Use of s/l method (specifically "digging out a hero," forcing weekly/monthly growth, etc.);
3.3. Use of any cheat codes regardless of the walkthrough stage, including "map exploration";
3.4. Loading an autosave, specifically "grinding" a result through constant re-plays of each Gameplay.
4. Allowed:
4.1. Replaying the game twice FROM THE VERY beginning in case of losing the map. However, it is strictly prohibited to use saves from previous walkthroughs during the repeat attempt;
4.2. Replaying the map once from the very beginning without explaining reasons. However, it is strictly prohibited to use saves from previous walkthroughs during the repeat attempt.
5. The game is played as if against a live opponent, without constant saves and reloads.
6. I emphasize again specifically: LOADING AN AUTOSAVE, SAVING THE GAME BEFORE A BATTLE, LOADING ANY SAVE OTHER THAN THE STARTING ONE IS UNACCEPTABLE!, as it contradicts the SPIRIT of the Tournament. Only loading a save from a deferred game in case of interruption is allowed. Naturally, verifying this point is impossible, but the presence of Dessa, Crag Hack, Tazar, Solmyr, Cili among heroes and constant growth weeks, as well as taking griffin conservatories without losses, may lead to exclusion from the tournament.
7. In case of violation of the Rules, the player is guaranteed exclusion from the tournament and other "joys of life."

May Honor and Dignity be with you! Glorious Victories!:)

Starting saves -> Download

Deadline for sending winning saves - October 01, 2006, 22:05.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Varg-Nar

20 years ago

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I suggested a save period of 2 weeks, but the Knights decided it was too short, so I'll agree. However, in other cases, I'm willing to agree with AlexeyPank's suggestion, although I initially proposed 2.5 months, but why not 3-4 months? (For some, 2.5 months might be too short). As for sending (final) saves for each period, this could also be challenging, so it's better to set a deadline for the entire tournament.

Regarding whether to remove certain factions or not, my opinion is "no." It's perfectly possible to play 9 maps with different factions, in my opinion (personally, I can't imagine Heroes without any particular faction, especially since the tournament is based on the principles of chivalry and honor, and it's necessary to test the strength of each Castle).

Regarding navigation and other controversial skills, we can discuss it. Yes, navigation can be removed where there is no water. But again, in my opinion, I love maps made with the sea, and when they are well-made, I am very demanding (in my opinion) when it comes to maps. Therefore, among the maps presented in the tournament, there is likely to be one with a water environment. Unless, of course, the Knights decide to burn me at the stake for it.

Qwerty

20 years ago

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Okay, I'll try to formulate the current version of the tournament regulations. 1. The tournament is held in three stages. The duration of each stage is 45 days. After this period, save files will not be accepted for review. There will be no exceptions! 2. Each stage includes three assignments/save files. Thus, the total number of assignments is nine, one for each race. The goal is to score the most points, while adhering to the SPIRIT, IDEOLOGY, and Rules of the save file playthrough. 3. At the end of each stage, the participant sends in their winning save files. The winning save file should be created before the final battle. Winning save files should be named as follows: Assignment number, player nickname, number of points. For example: 1 vbs 500. 4. A player can submit as many winning save files as they have completed. Thus, the number of submitted save files can range from 1 to 3. 5. It is MANDATORY to save the message sent with the save files until the results are announced. This is necessary so that, in case of email malfunctions, the player can prove that they sent the save files BEFORE the deadline. 6. Within a week after the end of each stage, the results for each save file are announced. 7. At the end of the third, final stage, the overall results are announced. The results of all the player's winning save files are taken into account. The winner of the tournament receives the appropriate title. 8. In case of doubts about the fairness of the playthrough, the player MUST provide a detailed report. Arguments such as "morale was given to each unit every turn," "all AI players entered Utopia one by one and died there," etc., will not be considered. If the player cannot provide a satisfactory report on the playthrough, their save file will be annulled. In the event that unfairness in the playthrough is PROVEN, the player will be disqualified from the tournament and will not be allowed to participate in Honor Tournaments for one year. In the event of VERIFIABLY PROVEN use of cheat codes or other obviously unfair methods in the final playthrough, the tournament organizers will submit a request to ADMIN to ban the player from the site.

In reply to Qwerty

Varg-Nar

20 years ago

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Well, Qwerty, I agree with you. But what about the sea? Do you, as tournament participants, agree to play on it or not?

Qwerty

20 years ago

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Project. Rules for completing the save game. 1. When completing the save game, you should be guided by the SPIRIT and IDEOLOGY of the tournament, and be honest. 2. It is strictly forbidden to hack the save game, use third-party programs ("hero digger" and similar), or use cheat codes in the final playthrough. 3. The following are prohibited: 3.1. Unfair play; 3.2. Using the s/l method (in particular, "digging up a hero," triggering a weekly/monthly growth bonus, etc.); 3.3. Using diplomacy; 3.4. "Forcing" a result by constantly replaying each game. 4. The following are allowed: 4.1. Scouting the map during the first game day. After that, the heroes must be restarted. 4.2. In case of critical situations related to game bugs (attacking one group, but the battle starts with those nearby, the mouse slips, etc.), it is allowed to load the autosave. But no more than once per game week. 5. The game is played as if you were playing against a live opponent, without constant saves and reloads. 6. In case of violation of the Rules, the player is guaranteed to be excluded from the tournament and face other "joys of life." Regarding the save game: 1. A total of 9 save games are offered, one for each race. 2. The save games are provided in three stages, according to the Regulations. 3. The map size is L. The presence or absence of an underground level and water spaces is at the discretion of the organizers. 4. Computer players act in an alliance. 5. The number of computer players is determined by the tournament organizers, in particular, based on the presence or absence of an underground level, water spaces, mountains, teleporters, etc. At the same time, the total number of computer players must be from 3 to 7.

Firelord

20 years ago

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Okay. Based on the statements and my own opinion, I will write a sample set of rules. I will continue to write similar ones until we all agree on one. Correct what you don't like and discuss everything in general.

1. 7 L maps and one M map on the Queen, one XL map on the King.
2. No water (well, maybe one map if desired), monster strength at maximum.
3. Send the save file, not the map.
4. Enemies in an alliance. Question - how many on L on the Queen?
5. Do not remove castles.
6. Do not remove skills (leave navigation, diplomacy, and necromancy - in general, the player decides which skills they will have during the game).
7. Time limit - either 2 weeks per save (i.e., 6 weeks for 3, which is 4.5 months - a huge amount of time! IMHO) or 30 days for 3 saves (the game lasts 3 months). But why such a long time!? You can complete one save in 10 days, or you can complete all 3 in the last 2 days! In online mode, it usually takes an evening or two to complete an L map; I play offline at the same speed (of course, it's a different matter that it's difficult to even start, but once you start, it doesn't take much time).
In general, take a look - explain what you don't like.

Qwerty

20 years ago

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2 Firelord

Let's go through the points:
1. The number of points awarded for a map depends on its size. I don't object to this suggestion, but in this case, we'll need to use the "reverse countdown" system that I mentioned earlier when calculating the total score.
2. For.
3. For.
4. For. The number of enemies depends on the map's characteristics and the presence or absence of a Dungeon. My suggestion is 4 without a Dungeon, 5-6 with a Dungeon. By the way, will there be a Dungeon?
5. For.
6. For, except for diplomacy. Its use should be prohibited – it doesn't quite align with the tournament's ideology (easy troop gathering on the map).
7. As the majority decides. In any case, one stage (3 saves) should allow for 30 to 45 days.

Added 27 minutes later
Another question regarding the rules: if a player realizes they are not playing optimally, can they start playing the map from the beginning? Or should they finish the map as they started, just like in a game against live opponents?

Added 14 minutes later
And another question regarding the rules: if a player loses in the Conservatory or Crypt (without knowing what kind of guard is there), can they load the autosave (of course, provided that they haven't loaded any autosaves during that game week)?

AlexeyPank

20 years ago

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Diplomacy can be omitted, as everyone will have the opportunity to acquire it, and in this case, everyone will be on equal footing. 30 days per stage seems like a sufficient amount of time. But I would prefer a single tournament rather than stages. Maps without dungeons are not as interesting; I would like underground levels to be present on at least three maps. I would also like to suggest playing a map without scouting, starting completely fresh. This would make it more challenging and interesting. What about summarizing the results? Do we send the final save file, or just a screenshot of the Hall of Fame and rely solely on Firelord's word, as he suggested? Do we take Qwerty's rules as a basis and start soon?

In reply to AlexeyPank

Varg-Nar

20 years ago

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Message from Qwerty
Point by point:
1. The number of points awarded for a map depends on its size. I don't object to this suggestion, but in this case, when calculating the total score, we will need to use the "reverse countdown" system that I mentioned earlier.
2. For.
3. For.
4. For. The number of enemies depends on the map's features and the presence or absence of a Dungeon. My suggestion is 4 without a Dungeon, 5-6 with a Dungeon. By the way, will there be a Dungeon?
5. For.
6. For, except for diplomacy. Its use should be prohibited – it doesn't quite align with the tournament's ideology (easy troop gathering on the map).
7. Whatever the majority decides. In any case, one stage (3 saves) should allow from 30 to 45 days.

Added 27 minutes later
Another question about the rules: if a player realizes that they are not playing correctly, can they start playing the map from the beginning? Or should they finish as they started, as in a game between live opponents?

Added 14 minutes later
And another question about the rules: if a player loses in a Crypt or Conservatory (it is impossible to know what kind of guard is there), can they load an autosave (of course, provided that they have not loaded any autosaves during that game week)?

"Reverse countdown," well, I don't know, what's wrong with the sum of points from all completed maps? And even if someone can't complete a map, it's not a big deal to send the save; it just means your chances of winning decrease because you won't get points for an uncompleted map (and someone might have several of these).
The number of enemies will depend on the map's features. A Dungeon is possible, and if there is one, believe me, it won't be terrible.
Regarding diplomacy, I agree with you to some extent, but not to the point of removing this skill (I hardly ever take it myself, and I don't like heroes who take it, as it becomes a nuisance... but again, it's everyone's choice, and they have the right to make it).
Regarding the time for a save or stage, we need to decide. Two weeks is enough for me, but considering that I'm not the only one, I'll agree with any other time (agreed upon by the majority).
Ideally, the map should be played from start to finish, and the result should be sent. You can start over only if you lose. But in general, let this be up to each player's conscience... because you could realize you're playing wrong and quickly lose to the computer without resistance... I think no one will do that (I want to believe it - ...and I do believe it!).
Regarding various treasure rooms and Conservatories... loading will not be allowed. Rely on your intuition and choose whether to attack or not (I always do this, and it often works). This is the golden rule: the right and opportunity to choose, naturally, without violating the established rules. And we are trying to refine them... :)

Message from AlexeyPank
I would also like to suggest playing the map without scouting, starting completely blind. This would be more challenging and interesting.
What about the final results? Do we send the final save, or just a screenshot of the Hall of Fame and trust each other, as suggested by the respected Firelord?
Should we take the rules of the respected Qwerty as a basis and start soon?

Yes, I agree that the map should be played (from a clean slate) without scouting.
Regarding the results, it is best, and everyone should agree on this, to send the final save and a screenshot of the Hall of Fame. :)

Yes, and there is something else I would like to say: in the case of an equal result (although this is unlikely), the players with the same result (total points) will be offered another map, and if there is a tie there, then the sum of the primary skills of the main hero can be taken into account.

Qwerty

20 years ago

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In case of a tie in points, the following criteria are proposed:
1. Days;
2. Sum of the hero's primary skills, excluding artifacts;
3. Sum of the hero's primary skills, including artifacts.
I believe this will be sufficient.

Firelord

20 years ago

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Regarding the map, I suggest a map with **Dungeon**, **4-5** enemies on the **Queen**, and **3** on the **King**. IMHO, it's not too difficult and is manageable for everyone. Diplomacy should be left out! In the game on L, it's not very useful, and, I repeat, the player chooses the skills they will play with – for example, when playing both online and offline on random, I look at what enemies I have (information about the scenario) and choose the skills I will take. Regarding conservatories, this IMHO is suitable for the "s/l method." Let's do it like in online! And to avoid losing too much, I usually take 80% of the maximum number of enemies, compare it with my army, and calculate the possible losses – if it's acceptable, I attack. +/- morale and luck. But this is not important – in online, few people like GodWars. Regarding the time limit for the entire tournament – I am **against** it. Otherwise, someone could download all the saves and go offline for 3 months... no. How about dynamic results? They will not be published until everyone submits their saves. Regarding replaying – hmm... it's a very difficult question, maybe give **two** attempts, no more?

Qwerty

I am not against this proposal, however, in this case, when summarizing the overall results, it will be necessary to use the "countdown" system, which I wrote about earlier.

I am **for** it. And also – to avoid problems with calculating the results, in case one of the organizers is absent, let's create a separate email address for the tournament that both I and **Varg-Nar will have access to. How about **TKoH@mail.ru**? :)

Qwerty

20 years ago

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I completely agree with Firelord regarding the inadmissibility of a deadline for the entire tournament. The arguments are beyond any doubt!

If there are no messages within the next three hours, I will try to formulate a new draft of the rules.

Firelord

20 years ago

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Qwerty

2. The sum of the hero's primary skills, excluding artifacts.

For
Please consider the possibility of replaying – I'm having trouble deciding.

Qwerty

20 years ago

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Project: Regulations for the First Tournament of Honor. 1. The tournament will be held in three stages. The duration of each stage is 30 (or 45) days. After this period, save files will no longer be accepted for review. There will be no exceptions! 2. Each stage includes three assignments/save files. Thus, the total number of assignments is nine, one for each race. The goal is to score the most points, while adhering to the SPIRIT, IDEOLOGY, and Rules for completing the save file. 3. At the end of each stage, the participant sends in the winning save files and a screenshot of the "Hall of Fame." The winning save file should be created before the final battle. Winning save files should be named as follows: Assignment number, player nickname, number of points. For example: 1 vbs 500. The screenshot should be named with "scr" followed by the same naming convention as the save file. 4. A player may submit as many winning save files as they have completed. Thus, the number of submitted save files can range from 1 to 3. 5. It is MANDATORY to save the message sent with the save files until the results are announced. This is necessary so that, in case of email malfunctions, the player can prove that they sent the save files BEFORE the deadline. 6. Within a week after the end of each stage, the results for each save file will be announced. 7. At the end of the third and final stage, the overall results will be announced. The results of all the player's winning save files will be taken into account. The results will be calculated by summing the scores based on the "reverse ranking" system (i.e., the winner receives the maximum number of points, and the last place receives 1 point). Alternatively, the results can be calculated by summing the points earned for completing each save file. The winner of the tournament will receive the corresponding title. 8. If two or more participants score the same number of points, the following additional criteria will be used: 1) Number of days; 2) Main hero's experience; 3) Sum of the main hero's primary skills, excluding artifacts; 4) Sum of the main hero's primary skills, including artifacts. A replay will only be conducted if there are identical scores among the contenders for first place in the overall standings (9 save files). 9. In case of doubts about the fairness of the playthrough, the player MUST provide a detailed report. Arguments such as "morale was increased for each unit every turn," "all AI players took turns entering Utopia and dying there," etc., will not be considered. If the player cannot provide a satisfactory report on the playthrough, their save file will be invalidated. If unfairness is proven, the player will be disqualified from the tournament and will not be allowed to participate in Tournaments of Honor for one year. In the event of VERIFIABLY PROVEN use of cheat codes or other obviously unfair methods in the final playthrough, the tournament organizers will submit a request to the ADMIN to ban the player from the site. This needs to be discussed, and decisions need to be made regarding the points where there are options.

UTER

20 years ago

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Why am I not on the list of participants?

Qwerty

20 years ago

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Project. Rules for completing the savegame. 1. When completing the savegame, you should be guided by the SPIRIT and IDEOLOGY of the tournament and be honest. 2. It is strictly forbidden to hack the savegame, use third-party programs ("hero digger" and similar), or use cheat codes. 3. The following is prohibited: 3.1. Unfair play; 3.2. Using the s/l method (in particular, "digging up a hero," triggering a week/month of growth, etc.); 3.3. Using any cheat codes, regardless of the stage of the game, including "map scouting"; 3.4. Loading autosaves, in particular, "forcing" a result by constantly replaying each game. 4. The following is allowed: 4.1. Replaying the game twice from the VERY beginning in case of losing a map. 5. The game is played as if you were playing against a live opponent, without constant saves and reloads. 6. In case of violation of the Rules, the player is guaranteed to be excluded from the tournament and face other "joys of life." Regarding the savegame. 1. A total of 9 savegames are offered, one for each race. 2. Savegames are provided in three stages, according to the Regulations. 3. The size of the map, the presence/absence of an underground level, and water spaces are at the discretion of the organizers. 4. Computer players act in an alliance. 5. The number of computer players is determined by the tournament organizers, in particular, based on the presence/absence of an underground level, water spaces, mountains, teleporters, etc. At the same time, the total number of computer players must be from 3 to 5.