DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” — Online Tournaments

Alex_R

17 years ago

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NO! Monster Week is an integral element of the game! The fact that it seems to bring imbalance to the game—well, we aren't simplifying it to the level of classic checkers.

An element of randomness must be present everywhere...

We don't place restrictions on cans or Dragon Utopia, do we? Why is it considered normal if one person gets 3-5 cans and another gets 1, but if Monster Week occurs, it's an imbalance?

Regarding the unbanning of all magic specialists—I am absolutely for it!
Competitors will appear for Galtran, Nella, and Shakti.

Also, I once again propose to make the starting hero random for all Castle factions, which will lead to a greater equalization of faction strength during the same turn, especially regarding Dungeon, Rampart, and Castle.
Dungeon with a random hero is no longer as imba as it is with Shakti.
Castle with a random hero will actually lead to players searching for paths to angels in the fort more often due to the absence of the imba Valeska.
As a result—a new format of building up castles, new faces among main heroes (especially for Dungeon and Castle, etc.).

On pro-tournaments and other sites, let there be strict rules, but on ХВ I believe there should be rules for game connoisseurs; moreover, I am sure that skill will not be lost because of this.
For the new addon to SoD, there are ideas regarding returning diplomacy to the game.
Regarding hero redemption, everything remains as is, and when joining troops, create a script so that for full price, for example, 5% or 10% of the total number joins... (exclude free joining entirely!)
Again, competitors may appear for Valeska, Nella, and Kirya with Ivor in the form of Adele, Kira, and Roland (respectively).
Even if diplomacy remains a desired skill—it's not a big deal, because it certainly won't be imba; after all, everyone strives to get Earth, Offense, and Logy too, and nothing is banned!
On the plus side, we can note the diversity of monsters in the army, otherwise skeletons, wyverns, and angels loom in every game with numbers from 20% to 80% of the total monster count.
P.S. Everything should be allowed except for bugs, and it must be done intelligently!

Added after 33 minutes
many positive consequences can be listed.
For example, the Leadership skill is almost unpopular and only available to those who have it as a starting skill. Native troops are combined + Angels + wyverns (-1 from three castles +1 from angels in the group), so we practically don't know what anti-morale is.
But if you joined 2 efreets (out of 20), and elven troops + wyverns are hanging around, it's already -1 morale.
By the way, the Luck skill needs to be strengthened.
The Diplomacy skill itself will be useful only in the late game, exactly when there is nothing else to oppose necromancers!
Limit 4th-level specialists only to using a profile castle against a human (until GM4 is built)

In reply to Alex_R

Javdet

17 years ago

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Alex_R

NO! Monster Week is an integral element of the game! The fact that it seems to bring imbalance to the game — well, we aren't simplifying it to the level of classic checkers.

An element of randomness should be present everywhere ...

We don't place restrictions on cans or Dragon Utopia, do we? Why is it considered normal if one person gets 3-5 cans and another gets 1, but if Monster Week occurs — then it's an imbalance?

Regarding the unbanning of all magic specialists — I am absolutely for it!
Competitors will appear for Galtran, Nella, Shakti.

Also, once again I propose to make the starting hero random for all Castles, which will lead to a greater equalization of faction strength during the same turn, especially regarding Dungeon, Rampart, Castle.
Dungeon with a random hero is no longer as imba as it is with Shakti.
Castle with a random hero will actually lead to people searching for paths to angels in the fort more often due to the absence of the imba Valeska.
As a result — a new format of building up castles, new faces among main heroes (especially for Dungeon and Castle, etc.).

On pro-tournaments and other sites, let there be strict rules, but on ХВ I believe there should be rules for game connoisseurs; moreover, I am sure that skill will not be lost because of this.
For the new add-on to SoD, there are ideas regarding returning diplomacy to the game.
Regarding hero redemption, everything remains as is, and when joining troops, create a script so that for full price, for example 5% or 10% of the total number is joined ... (exclude free joining entirely!)
Again, competitors may appear for Valeska, Nella, and Kirya with Ivor in the form of Adele, Kira, and Roland (respectively).
Even if diplomacy remains a desired skill — it's not a problem, because it certainly won't be imba; after all, everyone strives to get Earth, Offense, Logy too, and nothing is banned!
On the plus side, we can count on the variety of monsters in the army, otherwise skeletons, wyverns, and angels loom in every game with numbers from 20% to 80% of the total number of monsters.
P.S. Everything should be allowed except for bugs, and it must be done intelligently!

I'm all for it. But I'm sure it won't find support among the people:(

In reply to Javdet

КостяN

17 years ago

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At the level of various scripts, patches, etc., I can also suggest a lot of things to balance the game: for Necropolis, a paid transformer unit and/or reducing the hit points of skeletons to 3-4, and for Haven, Diplomacy could be made available at the advanced level – allowing the ability to escape when under the effects of Shackles, and at the expert level – allowing the ability to bribe... In general, and so on. But this is already a bit off-topic. As for the rules themselves, the idea of random heroes for all castles is quite sensible (Swamp and Barbarian, I think, will replace Castle and Rampart in popularity).

In reply to КостяN

Alex_R

17 years ago

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KostyaN

At the level of various scripts, patches, etc., I can also suggest a lot of things to balance it out

no-no-no ... I wrote that for the future and without any irony or lack of justification.
asm is already making the first version of the patch for SoD and seems to have almost finished the simultaneous turn feature up to 116, so in subsequent versions I think it won't be problematic to play around with diplomacy as well.
In any case, the transition to new rules will be gradual.
At the moment, what Lider1 proposed + a random starting hero is relevant.

P.S. Is it worth creating a new thread for voting or can the mods squeeze a poll into this thread?
About 6-10 positions are needed and 3 answer options for each:
- for
- against
- abstained

In reply to Alex_R

asm

17 years ago

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Alex_R

asm is already working on the first version of the patch for RoA and seems to be almost finished with the feature that allows simultaneous turns up to 116.

Most likely, this will be a new version. Not THE one, but closer to SoD, with bug fixes and clearly unbalanced elements addressed.
As soon as the website design is ready, there will be an announcement listing all the new features.

In reply to Yakudza

Kluka

17 years ago

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5.5. The so-called "red rush" is prohibited, meaning that the player playing as red is not allowed to attack blue on the first day of the week with reinforcements purchased on that day. However, troops that come with a hero purchased on that day can be used.

Here's what came to mind.
Let's say red rushes into blue's starting area on the first day of the week and runs towards the enemy's castle. Along the way, he sees various resource locations - pikemen, archers, ..., angels. Is he allowed to take troops from these resource locations and attack the enemy?

If we follow the quoted rule strictly, then it is allowed to take troops from the first-level resource locations, but not from the others :)

I'm not against it in principle, I just wanted to clarify this issue.

And also.

5.6. Hit-and-run is prohibited: the attacking hero is not allowed to retreat in the first round of combat if he has used combat magic or any other magic that in any way has inflicted any damage to the opponent.

Specifically:
1. Berserk
2. Hypnosis
3. Summoning
4. Clone
etc.
- is this what is meant by "any other" magic that inflicts "any" damage?

It's a bit of an edge case, but it could be clarified.

In reply to Kluka

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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Kluka

Specifically:
1. Berserk
2. Hypnosis
3. Summoning
4. Clone
etc.
- does this imply that "any other" magic that deals "any" damage is allowed?

It's not that exotic! Maybe a simple mass haste in the first round. Cast it, attack with everyone, and retreat, and repeat a few more times. If only there were enough resources ;)
I think it's okay to capture outposts; there's nothing wrong with that, as far as I can tell.

In reply to Yakudza

Wicc

17 years ago

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On the forums, after much discussion, people agreed on the following interpretation of hit-and-run:

Hit-and-run is considered to be the use of direct-damage spells (list) followed by fleeing/bribing in the first round.

It's simple to understand and apply.

In reply to Wicc

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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What if, during an attack, the defender gets to move first? For example, they cast a spell that explodes, and the attacker can't retaliate or escape.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Wicc

17 years ago

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Dirty_Player

What if, during an attack, the defender goes first? For example, they cast an explosion spell, and the attacker can't retaliate or escape?

The restriction only applies to the attacking hero. I forgot to mention that. If the defender goes first, that's the attacker's problem. In the worst-case scenario, if they see that they'll be defeated in the second round without getting a turn, they can retreat without casting a spell.

In reply to Kluka

Дубровин Павел

17 years ago

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Kluka

Here's what came to mind.
Let's say, on the first day of the week, Red rushes into Blue's territory and heads towards the enemy's castle. On the way, he sees various outposts - pikemen, archers, ..., angels. Does he have the right to take troops from these outposts and attack the enemy?

If we follow the quoted rule strictly, then it's possible to take troops from outposts of the first level, but not from the others :)

I'm not against it in principle, I just wanted to clarify this issue.

As far as I remember, the rules allow Red to take only the Hero's Army, purchased in the Tavern, on the 1st day and attack the opponent. It is not allowed to take troops from any outposts and attack with this army on the 1st day of the week.
The player can attack, disbanding what he took from the population and outposts, if he wants to, of course.

In reply to Дубровин Павел

Oelm

17 years ago

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Isn't the "hit-and-run" tactic in the world map based on Baev's interpretation, specifically direct damage magic? I think this approach is understandable and convenient. By the way, if you prevent the hero being attacked from using magic, it opens up possibilities for tactics like breaking up the enemy's heroes. Under certain circumstances, a logistics hero, for example, could become almost invulnerable. In light of our last game, an idea arose on how to reconcile supporters and opponents of the "rest" rule upon meeting: as I understand it, the idea behind this rule is to eliminate early battles where some castles, like Castle, have a significant advantage. On the other hand, we'd like to have the option to initiate a rest if the situation is unfavorable. So, here's the proposal: consider either capturing outposts, castles, mines, secondary resources, or encountering the opponent's main army as grounds for initiating a rest; contact between weaker heroes should not be a reason. The rule sounds a bit complicated, but it doesn't need to be mandatory. If players don't develop well in the early game, this rule is unnecessary for them. However, if development is good, it's frustrating when you have to initiate a rest just because you killed a scout somewhere on turn 115; waiting until turn 117 is also not an option. How do you distinguish between armies? Well, let's say we create a division based on 50 hit points; that is, if an army doesn't have 50 hit points, it's not considered a main army (a weaker army). This rule is proposed as an additional rule, subject to mutual agreement. There's also a simpler option: make it so that a rest upon meeting is only considered if one of the players wants it.

In reply to Yakudza

Lider1

17 years ago

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Let's discuss the rules of online games.

When choosing a faction, the hero is random, but for Necropolis, you can choose. Doesn't this seem a bit strange to you?

In reply to Yakudza

Wlk777

17 years ago

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Here's a suggestion to reduce the number of restarts when a starting hero with a level higher than 1 appears: allow players to continue the game if they wish, with the condition that this hero does not participate in battles and possesses the skills of logistics, pathfinding, and scouting (in case these skills are not initially assigned to the hero). The hero should be dismissed no later than the first day. Something along these lines, perhaps with some adjustments, should be added to the rules. IMHO.

In reply to Wlk777

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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Lider1

For Conflux, the hero is random, but for Necropolis, you can choose. Doesn't it seem a bit strange to you?

I personally thought about this for a long time. I would suggest the following option: prohibit starting with Galthran, but allow the choice of any other hero. That is, you can start with Tamika, Clavius, Charn, and not have to worry about what to do if you get Stracker or Nimbus.
Regarding the Conflux, I won't even bother suggesting anything; it's just too powerful.

Wlk777

I have a suggestion to reduce the number of restarts when a starting hero above level 1 appears: allow continuing the game if desired, with the condition that this hero does not participate in battles and, if this hero has the skills of logistics, pathfinding, and scouting (in case these skills are not initially assigned to this hero), dismiss him no later than the first day. Something like that, possibly with some adjustments; this amendment should be added to the rules. IMHO=[/QUOTE]
First, we need to think about where this bug comes from. If the hero is not level 1 at the start, it means he was initially placed in a dungeon, and if you continue playing, the found dungeon will be empty, which would be quite unpleasant... although I think it's not fatal. In my opinion, it's still better to restart than to write an extra paragraph in the rules. :D