Life Buildings — General

oxygen_hl

3/5/2009 5:21 PM UTC

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ZYbr

Why wait? Just apply buffs and go for it. You yourself wrote that waiting doesn't help much, and this way, we'll surprise the opponent who is used to the battle starting with all troops retreating:D

If you don't wait, how will you apply these "buffs"? Or do you have all heroes with a speed of 11 or higher? :eek: And the second question, if you don't wait, you'll attack with immolation. What's the point? Please, don't tell me about dispelling before champions, that's a very difficult plan to execute.

And the last point. There's a second-level spell for every "buff." Most heroes know it. So, I wouldn't rely on any bonuses. In short, the probability of successfully using dragon strength or something similar is very low.

Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.
© О. Хайям

In reply to Zybr

Тралоск

3/5/2009 5:22 PM UTC

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I agree about the hero, but on many online maps of sizes S and M (for a player versus a human opponent), there is an additional castle and two more additional castles.
Examples: heartwinter, If These Walls Could Talk, showdown.

We both understand this perfectly, and I think that having two castles and building different units there is complete idiocy.

They can be easily contained by any army due to the terrain.

If the opponent is an AI, then yes. But otherwise, it will be difficult... there are rarely many natural obstacles on the battlefield, especially a player who has brought champions to the battle will carefully protect them and avoid logs/stones and other nonsense... so it all depends on the skill level of the players, again ;) Moreover, champions are usually placed in the front line.

Как можно сделать мутную воду прозрачной?
- Не трогай её, и она очистится сама. :smile04:

oxygen_hl

3/5/2009 5:27 PM UTC

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BTW, with "If these walls..." the game has been going on for about 3 weeks, and two-thirds of the levels simply won't have time to grow. But this is already a question related to maps, and not to Haven.

Added 2 minutes later
Tralosk, you are right about everything except for the "locking" aspect. The Order faction, Demonology, Nature, and many others can do it; usually, the fast unit does it, and the third level unit can as well. Here, Zubr is right; you can almost always "lock" a unit.

Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.
© О. Хайям

In reply to oxygen_hl

Zybr

3/5/2009 5:50 PM UTC

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If you don't wait for them, how will you apply these "buffs" to them? Or do you have all heroes with a speed of 11 or higher? And the second question is, if you don't wait, you'll attack immediately. What's the point? Please, don't tell me about dispelling before champions; that's a very difficult plan to execute.

Well, you can develop one hero to walk in front of the champions, right? And what kind of hero it will be (with what spells) depends on the initial idea, and here, whether it's teleport or dispel, it doesn't matter in terms of obtaining it.
Therefore, dispelling before champions... the problem is that they can be placed in the first row and attacked or cast a bad spell on them.

Why Dragon Strength? Take something simpler, like level 2 magic:smile42:

If the opponent is an AI, then yes. Otherwise, it will be difficult... there are rarely many natural obstacles on the battlefield, especially since a player who brings champions to the battle will carefully protect them and avoid logs/stones and other nonsense... so it all depends on the skill level of the players, again. Moreover, champions are usually placed in the first line.

No. It's easier to block than to dodge and attack from a run.
And besides, why keep champions whose strength lies in the first attack?:confused:
See an opening and strike! And then, if they survive:)

P.S., Trelosk, whether it's idiocy or not is a secondary matter:) you just wrote that a map with many castles will only be in a game against the AI, and I gave a counter-example;)
And as for building them... it depends on how much money there is, I think.

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Zybr

oxygen_hl

3/5/2009 6:02 PM UTC

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ZYbr

Well, you can level up one hero so that they walk ahead of the champions, right? And what kind of hero it will be (with what spells) depends on the initial idea, and here, whether it's teleport or dispel, it doesn't matter in terms of obtaining it.
So, dispelling before the champions... the problem is that they'll be put in the first row, and they can be hit there or a bad spell can be cast on them.

Are you playing against a Birch Grove, or something? It will be the same – one or two heroes will outrun the champions, so you'll be dispelling them so that they can actually move. :)
Unless you teleport them. In general, fighting with champions, as well as with catapults, gargoyles, and other creatures, is always improvisation. You can only rely on surprise attacks. For example, Dima Stranger brought 300 elves with a direct arrow to PowerSpot and won. :)

Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.
© О. Хайям

Смерть попсы

3/13/2009 4:24 PM UTC

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In my opinion, among the melee units, the best are the Pikemen, although I usually choose Ballistas. Angels don't count, as they are a 4th-tier unit, and they are in a league of their own.

Под холодную Луной порублю попсу косой (с) Decimacia

Zybr

7/27/2009 8:18 PM UTC

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I would say that the champion is not a high-quality Tier 4 unit; it should be a Tier 3 unit.

Why does everyone dislike champions so much? The Stable for Life skill at the start can significantly accelerate the pace of development. When choosing the "ballista/pikeman - crusader - champion" building sequence, there will be no need for precious resources, and it will cost at least 3,000 less to build. Plus, you can also build the Order of Paladins. It's true that you need about 50 wood and stone, but it's still easier to get or exchange them, and it costs less money. The only thing champions need when clearing out enemies is magical support; without it, they die like flies. Moreover, both Nature (Giant Strength/Speed/Luck) and Order are suitable for mandatory healing from Life, but it depends more on the terrain (although Order is still preferable due to flight and illusions).
In general, playing with champions in the game is more exciting. It requires concentration and well-thought-out movements on the map. I'm only slowly practicing this tactic, but sometimes the results are quite unexpected. The only thing that cavalry lacks is speed in combat (i.e., not movement speed, but turn order).

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

Alexsander13

7/28/2009 5:56 AM UTC

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I'm not saying I don't like them; it's just that Angels have higher attack power, they can resurrect units, and they can fly.

General ZeT

7/28/2009 6:11 AM UTC

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I'm not saying I don't like them; it's just that Angels have higher attack, they resurrect, and they fly.

As you yourself wrote – 4 champions per week on large maps – you develop tactics and life magic – in this variant, in my opinion, they are better than Angels because there will be a large number of champions, with customized regeneration (+ additional spells) under the general's morale – a dangerous army.

:smile17:

Zybr

7/28/2009 6:59 AM UTC

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No, it's risky to bet on champions for a long game; it seems better to use them for quick matches or to develop heroes (as cannon fodder). Something like that.

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

General ZeT

7/28/2009 7:04 AM UTC

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No, it's risky to bet on champions for a long game.

Well, I don't know, I had a couple of such long games, and the champions saved me. Maybe I was just lucky – after all, I was playing on my own maps.

:smile17:

Alexsander13

7/28/2009 7:17 AM UTC

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they raise angels for a long time, and there they raise large armies.

Added after 37 seconds
and may I ask why your online status is yellow?

yuriy

7/29/2009 8:17 PM UTC

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I agree that in fast-paced games, Champions are truly Champions,
but I only play large maps with them because it's more interesting! =)

ОФФТОП - МОЁ ВТОРОЕ ИМЯ :smile01:
Мои карты: /attachments/12680/> и /attachments/10952/>

=Feel999=

10/11/2010 4:51 PM UTC

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ballista - monk/crusader - angel. To play at the champion level for Life, you can only use 3 archers: crossbowman - ballista - monk, with angel support. The exception is Death, against which you need to play with crusaders, and even 1 hit from cavalry won't save you in a competition; angels are still stronger.

Достоинство человека определяется тем, каким путем он идет к цели, а не тем, достигнет ли он ее.;)
Демократия есть одурачивание народа при помощи народа ради блага народа.(Уайльд Оскар)

Zybr

4/7/2011 9:06 AM UTC

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Heh, people often write about gameplay, especially inexperienced players, saying that you need to play using archers. After my recent games, I've been thinking about this a lot. Even the Wanderer, for example, praises monks and always carries ballistas. Maybe I'm just not very good at the game, but still... Let's analyze this using the example of 3.55 (enhanced version with levels 1-3 for all factions). Monks have 65 HP and some damage. There are no Angels or cavalry yet, so you have to fight with them. You need 5-7 of them. As it turns out, you need a lot of mana or wells along the way, especially if you need to get through without any losses (even a shield unit, which is essential). When you have enough mana for healing throughout the battle, as well as Bless spells, and a second mage can slow down the enemy's advance, then you can more or less survive. But as soon as you run out of mana, big problems start, and you often lose heroes - and that's at least a loss of tempo. It's much easier to play with Crusaders - cast Regeneration and maybe Bless, and then just carefully watch the battle, not spending too much mana and keeping the mobs away from the heroes. Ballistas are just too slow

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!