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Posts from Does the pre-installed software on the purchased computer include Windows Vista, and is that something you actually need?Auto-translated
That's a strange position. Let's say you need a Porsche Boxster. You go to the dealership and say: "Guys, I'd like that black one over there. But take the wheels off, I don't need them, I have my own. And while you're at it, remove the seats and the steering wheel." I wonder if you'd get wild, unrestrained laughter in response, or just blank incomprehension. ;)
In my opinion, the example isn't quite accurate.:smile42: You're not asking them to rip out the graphics card from a laptop, for example. If we're drawing an analogy with a car, it's more like saying, "I need a car with a black leather interior," and they respond, "But we only have a standard configuration with lilac leather and a green floral pattern. And frankly, we don't understand why you're not happy – it's the most fashionable and advanced color scheme available today."oxygen_hl
Think of the OS as part of the product you're buying.
And then there will come a time when you'll be forced to buy a laptop with a non-removable leather case with hand-embroidered gold threads as part of the package. :smile04:
P.S. Damn, while I was typing this message, two other people wrote the same thing. :smile40:
I knew they'd say the example was incorrect. Guys, General Motors can easily sign a contract with Pirelli. Just like Hewlett can with Microsoft. And assemble cars with Italian tires. Is the analogy clear now?
Just for Russian users (read: every third self-proclaimed computer expert), a computer and software are things that are purchased separately. For the civilized world (Russia is unfortunately not yet part of it), this has not been the case for a long time. There is a computer, and there is a service center where people help the user get the computer to work as it should. For some reason, a similar situation with cars doesn't bother anyone. The fact that you are sold a Chrysler with European tires in a showroom, and not some SibUralKhrun, doesn't surprise anyone.
P.S. Please understand me correctly, I also believe that a clean machine is better than one with software. I have never bought a complete computer in my life, only parts for self-assembly. The point is something else: the requirement to disassemble an assembled product is strange, that's what I'm talking about.
P.P.S. Yes, by the way, the OS is not installed in the store, and it is not sold as an add-on in the store either.
And then there will come a time when you will have to buy a leather laptop case with hand embroidery with gold threads as a mandatory part of the package. And what is characteristic is that it will be non-removable.
Honey, this already exists. It's called Vertu. And what will happen next, only Allah knows. You can still buy a computer in parts now. And custom shops are also operating. After all, demand creates supply, and not vice versa. ;)
Added 5 minutes ago
I remembered a better example.
Cars are now sold with comprehensive insurance (CASCO). Many people don't like it. But there's no getting around it. A package is a package. Although, for example, I wouldn't buy CASCO, because it's useless. But I won't complain. There are cars that are sold with a satellite security system. And again, no one objects. Because it is considered normal... for some reason.
Added 38 minutes ago
it's just impossible to interpret it that way. I would gladly do it, but where can I find a service with a handmade service? Are there many such places where you can assemble a laptop where you live?
After a couple of minutes of searching, Yandex told me that you can order laptop assembly at the "KEY" computer center. This is in the North-West (mainly St. Petersburg). If it's possible in St. Petersburg, then it's even more possible in Moscow. "Ultra," "F-Center," or "Sunrise" probably do this. Or "Dealine." If you want to :)
Did they reduce the laptop's price by the cost of Vista? If not, then this isn't a solution, because simply removing the OS without lowering the price of the hardware can be done in almost any store.
They removed it... after a conversation with the senior manager.
P.S. Yes, by the way, the OS is not installed in the store, and it is not sold there either, if that matters.
But the point is that it's mostly done in the store.
P.S. Yandex, St. Petersburg, Moscow... at least look at where the person lives – in Kazakhstan. And judging by the thoroughness of the question, he's not lazy and has probably already searched for possible options near him.
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
That's exactly the point, most of them are in stores.
Apparently, not all stores are the same. Don't buy the "wrong honey";)
P.S. Yandex, St. Petersburg, Moscow... at least look at where the person lives, in Kazakhstan. And judging by the thoroughness of the question, he's not the laziest and has probably already searched for possible options near him.
Actually, Almaty is almost on par with Moscow in terms of development. For example: the largest internet cafe in the CafeMax network is located in the center of Almaty.
I don't believe that they don't assemble computers there. KC "KEY" is just a regular distributor with service. There are tons of them in any country.
"Ultra" unfortunately doesn't do anything anymore... they closed it down last summer, I think...
That's right. I forgot. Let "Nix" be instead of it :)
That’s exactly the point, most of them are sold in stores.
No, most Windows laptops are pre-configured at the factory, meaning that Asus, HP, Acer, Toshiba, and who knows who else install Windows themselves at the factory because they have contracts with Microsoft. However, any hardware manufacturer reserves the right for the customer to refuse the pre-installed software.
oxygen_hl
Actually, Almaty is almost on par with Moscow in terms of development. For example, the largest internet cafe in the CafeMax chain is located in the center of Almaty.
Maybe. I’ve never been to either place. But I doubt I would travel 1200 versts just to assemble a laptop there. And, in general, this isn’t about me. People who work professionally in this field will figure it out one way or another.
Why can’t an ordinary person come to a store, choose a laptop they like, just because, for example, “this pink one,” and it’s not available anywhere without Vista, but it’s on display, and the person wants exactly “this pink one”? Why can’t they say to the service department of the same store, “remove Vista, I won’t buy it, and install XP, I’ll pay for it”?
The point is that an ordinary person has the right to do so. Because, according to Russian law, software and hardware are absolutely independent products and cannot be sold as an inseparable package.
So, the problem is not with the software and hardware manufacturers, but more often with the violation of consumer rights and the law by the seller.
I haven’t looked at Kazakh laws yet; I need to check them.
I don’t believe that they don’t assemble computers there. KC “KEY” is just a regular distributor with a service center. There are tons of them in any country.
They do assemble computers. I haven’t bought anything other than components. But they assemble only desktops, not laptops. I haven’t seen laptop assembly here.
But that’s not the point, because in this context, handmade is not a solution, it’s a workaround.
Yes, I'm not arguing about the legislation. If it can be reversed, that's great. I'm talking about the fact that, for reasons I don't understand, a user considers the operating system and the computer to be separate things, while a car and its insurance/climate control, etc., are considered a single entity. This is simply a matter of mentality, and, of course, it is unlikely to be corrected. For me, it is perfectly normal and natural to buy a laptop, remove the operating system, and install what I want. Just as my wife can buy a set of five small Christian Dior bottles or something similar and throw two of them away because she doesn't need them, instead of demanding a refund for them.
why can't he say in the service department of the same store - remove Vista for me, I won't buy it, and install Windows XP instead, I'll pay for it.
There's a good anecdote about this. A man comes into a bakery and asks: - How much are the raisin buns? - 2 rubles - And without raisins? - Also 2 rubles. - Then pick out half a kilo of raisins for me.
They don't sell vodka without a bottle, and they don't sell raisins without buns. I treat the operating system as part of the computer. And if it doesn't suit me (like, for example, the onboard video on the motherboard doesn't suit me), I remove it and install what I want. Independently. I don't demand that the onboard video be removed because I have another card.
They don't sell vodka without a bottle, or raisins without buns. I treat the system as part of a computer. And if it doesn't suit me (like, for example, I don't like the onboard video on the motherboard), I remove it and install what I want. Independently. I don't demand to pry out the onboard video because I have another card.
Yes, it seems the problem is that you still can't (or won't) understand that software and ПО (software products) are completely different products/goods/whatever. And you continue to provide examples that are completely inappropriate in this context. Too bad. Most people understand this, and this problem exists for them.
Well, if that's the case, there isn't really a problem. As stated in the main post of the thread, we all have the right to say "I don't want to!" and request that the hated Vista be removed. All other posts in the thread after that have only philosophical value. You are no longer solving a problem, but simply expressing your opinion about the rationality of the existing order of things. Although, of course, we all love to complain about life and Microsoft, let's be honest.:smile08:
And the topic is progressing, if anyone is interested.
There are very interesting graphs presented there... and the official letter (the statement is attached at the bottom of the page) to the FAS is even more interesting;)...
Soon we will hear from the FAS.
I bought a laptop, and it came with Vista... I wanted to reinstall it right away, but they said it's better not to touch it. There would be a lot of problems later... so I'm stuck with it :( Half of everything is incompatible... :(
I bought a laptop, and it came with Vista... I wanted to reinstall it right away, but they said it's better not to touch it. There would be a lot of problems later... so I'm stuck with it :( Half of everything is incompatible... :(
I sympathize. If you want, feel free to ask, and I'll tell you how to switch to XP with the fewest problems, usually even without any problems at all, by taking the easiest path, because I have experience. It's not that difficult, actually ;)
I apologize, but which half are you referring to? Everything has been working fine on it for the past year and a half. But yes, it is indeed possible to do, the only downside is that the warranty is voided.
I apologize, but which half are you referring to? Everything has been working fine for a year and a half now. But in general, yes, it is possible to do, the only downside is that the warranty is voided.
The warranty isn't always voided, and not with all manufacturers - that's the first thing. Ideally, you can return the laptop without the hard drive. Secondly, there's nothing stopping you from allocating a 10 GB partition for Vista and letting it sit there if that's what you want.
And thirdly, you were given misleading information. Salespeople like to do that - it's in their interest.
Nah, I don't really care about the warranty for the whole computer; the warranty for the components remains valid. As for laptops, I don't know, I've never owned one.
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