Round table — Online Tournaments

Wlk777

17 years ago

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Wicc

It's not that hard to come up with a strategy. The army and hero are typical for week 2, without additional troops and even without summoning demons.

All you need on top of that is an Ifrit upgrade, Spirit of Despair, a wagon, and a little bit of ingenuity :).

P.S. The idea isn't mine.

It sounds like "it's easy to kill a bear with a fork – all you need is a fork and a little bit of ingenuity." :)

In reply to Wlk777

LeBron

17 years ago

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Wlk777

Sounds like "it's easy to kill a bear with a fork – all you need is a fork and a little ingenuity" :)

on Bay, it's common to kill bears not with a fork, but with a toothpick:D

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D

In reply to LeBron

Oelm

17 years ago

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I remember that someone named Oelm promised to provide an interesting and useful description on a temporary branch of World.

:D :D :D
Today I'm waiting for Aldegir; if he doesn't come, I will write something.
Without double build, without upgrading ifrits, wagons, and other junk!

P.S. 2Hermit: I don't remember the details, but in any case, it is possible to achieve parameters on level 2 so that this trick works.

P.P.S. /topic/at/213452/
I can't take screenshots; if anyone wants to, they can do it, and I'll add them.

SEM_56

17 years ago

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A little about increasing parameters, that is, manipulating them...
In one game with Mr. [Name], the map had a good layout, with several artifacts near the castle...
By transferring certain artifacts and troops to different heroes, I made sure that the hero was visible in the tavern!!!
As he later told me, the opponent had to take risks to match the parameters, which led to mistakes and nervousness, and that's already an advantage!!!

Ушел с героев, пока пряники)

In reply to Oelm

Дубровин Павел

17 years ago

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I'm curious, does anyone in the Heroes community ever take the "Wisdom" skill when given the choice between it and, say... Tactics, Logistics, Attack, or Defense?
In other words, is it worth sacrificing a basic skill like Logistics, Tactics, Defense, or Attack in favor of "Wisdom"?
Personally, I don't like it... but maybe I should change my mind...
I'd like to hear your opinions...

Added 5 minutes later

SEM_56

A little about increasing parameters, that is, manipulating them....
In one game with a friend, the map had a good layout, with several artifacts near the castle....
By assigning different artifacts and troops to different heroes, so that the hero would be visible in the tavern!!!
As he told me later, the opponent had to take risks to match the parameters, which led to mistakes and nervousness, and that's already an advantage!!!

Yes, you're right, but these manipulations can either make the opponent make mistakes or lead them to take increased risks, which can also help improve the quality of their game, which ultimately benefits everyone.

С истиной где-то рядом...

Лето 2010.

In reply to Дубровин Павел

Oelm

17 years ago

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With this approach, I would probably only think about tactics, and even then, it's unlikely (let's say if the enemy is at the castle, and there's a teleport in the tower, then I would probably take wisdom to surprise the opponent with teleportation:D). But if the question is whether it's better to upgrade a combat skill or take basic wisdom, then there are possible options.

Wicc

17 years ago

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Wisdom is usually offered on levels 6, 12, and 18, so if they offer something worthwhile, it makes sense to postpone getting wisdom. Again, they might offer useful magic in the Utopia. The exception is when you need wisdom right away to get a promising Pandora or learn a higher-level guild, etc. Or if your level is already decent, but you don't have control in the Utopia and don't expect to get it.

Javdet

17 years ago

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Pash, the question is too vague. It all depends on the circumstances. For example, you enter a dungeon and see several Pandor creatures, and the hero is level 11. What will you choose? :)

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

In reply to Javdet

Oelm

17 years ago

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Yeah, I don't think this is suitable for online play; there are too many critical moments, and the potential losses, at best, aren't worth the reward. Losing your entire army except for the Golems (an Efreet will realistically survive one hit, or maybe not at all), and the Golems are only useful for the endgame or as fodder for the Demons...
So, it all comes down to meat shields, and the main attacking force is 4 Angels? And they won't be reinforced from the castle until the end of the second week; you can only rely on clues and Cons, but if you're going for the maximum, there won't be more Cons in sight.
4 Angels are often more effective than a lost army, but it will also be difficult to take such a Cons with them later, and running around with only 4 Angels until day 127 isn't very promising...
P.S. The tactic is practically no different from taking the maximum Cons with the Elves on the 2nd week, but there is much less risk and fewer losses.
Also, I have some doubts about:
1) the army's survivability (it would be good to write down the losses after each hit, even if it's just an estimate).
2) why attack the Griffins with Imps? And in general, why attack everyone except the Efreet in the first round?
3) what guaranteed stack distracts the Griffin King from the Golems in the first round? (with the Elves, it's the Dryads, which will definitely take the hit (if they are near the Elves) and hold them back in the second round thanks to their roots).

Alex, I think you didn't read the description carefully:
1). There is no Griffin stack, and there are no Griffin Kings.
2). Why attack with Imps? The whole tactic is based on this. I won't explain it in detail. Nor will I explain what to do if the morale of one of the nearby Griffin stacks drops in the first or second round. There will be slight differences in the further course of the battle. It's better to try the battle yourself when you have time, and you will be able to answer many questions yourself.
As for survivability, I think someone will help create screenshots, and then these questions will disappear on their own.
3).

4 Angels are often more effective than a lost army,

as you wrote, of course, such an exchange may not always be necessary. But often it will be beneficial. The simplest example is when you need to break the Hive. And in the Treasure, you can break through many things with such an army.
4). And most importantly, as it is written in the description, Marius, or another hero, has a chance to get combat skills other than armor.
For example, if there is archery, then the Cons will be taken not 7 out of 10, but approximately 8-9 out of 10. And offense also noticeably reduces the risk of morale drops. If there is a book with bless, slow, shield, skin, etc., then you can generally talk about relatively small losses.

I haven't tested it for ramp Cons, but I don't think everything is so smooth there with morale. If you don't like it, don't play it.

Hermit

17 years ago

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Actually, I recently found out that Wisdom is offered on levels 6, 12, and 18. I've played Heroes a lot against the computer, but I didn't pay attention to this. In my opinion, level 12 is usually the best choice for Wisdom, especially if the hero is a Knight. Why take it on level 6 when you can get Logistics, Tactics, or Earth Magic instead? At that point, you probably haven't even built a second-level Mage Guild, let alone a fourth or fifth. Other skills are much more useful at that time. However, on level 12, the hero is already capable of reaching the treasure chamber of the Pandorians, where they might find high-level spells, so it's definitely worth taking then. Of course, there are some circumstances where you need to take it on level 6, and in other cases, you can postpone it until level 18. I was even once offered the chance to learn it on level 3. I wonder if it's possible to be offered it again after level 18?

In reply to Hermit

Wicc

17 years ago

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Hermit

Actually, once they offered me to learn it at level 3. It would be interesting to know if they can offer it again after level 18?

They can offer it at any level, but if it wasn't offered between levels 2-5, then it will definitely be offered at level 6. And if it was offered, then it might not be offered at level 6. It's like a deadline. The same applies to levels 12 and 18 - they can offer it earlier. I don't remember anything after level 18; there are almost no slots left. In theory, they can, but it's unlikely.

Wicc

17 years ago

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vbn

Wisdom is ALWAYS offered on levels 6, 12, and 18!

Generate some skill tree builds yourself, and you'll see.

In reply to Wicc

Oelm

17 years ago

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Wicc, why is the resource distribution on grass worse for blue than for red?:D Is this just statistics, or is there an explanation for this? And is this only on the SM map, or also on Jebus and other maps?

Wicc

17 years ago

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This is statistics.

At one point, I purposely researched this question — it turned out that the number of key objects (roads, external dwellings, Griffin Conservatories, hives) for red is roughly 50% greater than for blue. From other pairs, I looked at Castle-Barbarian, and there the difference fluctuated between 0 and 20% as more stats were gathered (if my memory serves me).

When I posted these calculations on the forum, I was told this was a well-known fact, something like "the terrain distribution is worse for blue than usual."

Why that is — no idea. I only looked at SM maps.

Maybe an experimental error :)

In reply to Wicc

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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Wicc

Generate a few skill trees, and you'll see for yourself.

He's right. If a hero doesn't have Wisdom, they will definitely be offered it at levels 6, 12, and 18, if there are free skill slots. Otherwise, they might be offered it at any level, even the third or the fifteenth...

P.S.: If a hero is offered Wisdom at level 5, they might not be offered it at level 6, but if the same hero isn't offered Wisdom from level 7 to 11, they will definitely be offered it at level 12!

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